Anyone take ZMA or Somatomax?

[j_nolesfan]

Anyone tried ZMA? I originally found it when looking for vitamins and herbs that enhance sleep. I took it as directed (3 capsules about an hour before bedtime) last night and I slept like a hibernating bear! The bonus is that this is supposed (key word) to enhance muscle strength. From the study: "Those who took the ZMA tablets showed greater increases in muscle strength, free testosterone levels, and IGF-1 levels." The supplement can be taken by men or women. One added benefit in women, depending on your point of view, is supposed to be libido enhancement as well. Yeah, it sounds like the "new black" of the vitamin world but studies are supposedly piling up in support of the claims.

Another supplement I was looking at is called Somatomax. It's much more expensive than ZMA but it's actually marketed as a sleep aid/HGH booster/libido enhancer. I have a sample single dose that I plan to take once I determine exactly how well the ZMA works.

I know there has never really been a "magic bullet" in fitness and weight loss when it comes to supplements but these two sound like they might be the closest thing.

Regards,
Jeff

[Birgit]

I have not used the ZMA, but it says on their web page that it's made of zinc, magnesium and vitamin B6.

Why spend tons of money on a supplement that you can easily administer your self? Zinc, magnesium and vitamin B6 can be bought at any vitamin store/grocery store and I'm sure will be much cheaper than buying a product that is pre-mixed.

Also look up "Calm" by Peter Gillam's, that explains a lot about what magnesium does etc. (Calm is a brand name on a very easily digestible magnesium).

Also go buy a "vitamin bible" (about $8 in B&N) that book will in very easy language explain what vitamins are and what to use and what to look out for etc.

I would highly recommend that you educate yourself in vitamins and what they can be used for, before "just" starting to use them.

[j_nolesfan]

Birgit,
I'm aware of what ZMA contains. I'm not afraid of a supplement that contains three vitamins. If it were some exotic herbs or something that might be different. Supposedly, the specific blend in ZMA helps over separate supplementation. At $18 for a month's supply, it's relatively inexpensive. I haven't compared it to buying the same three vitamins separately. If I get time on my next visit to Wally World, I'll do the math. Somatomax is a different story. The cheapest I could find it online was about $40 after shipping. If memory serves, it's about $60 for a month's supply in the stores.

I took it for the second time last night and I slept like a bear and woke up feeling...younger for lack of a better word, not extremely rested but just a little less achy than my normal good night's sleep. All day yesterday, I felt stronger, not necessarily more energetic, just like I had more power. I have yet to exercise as I'm coming down from a sinus infection and I've been pretty busy.

I've taken melatonin for years. Just recently, I started taking a one week break every few months as most documentation suggests you should from any particular supplement.

All I know is, about an hour after taking a melatonin and the recommended dose of ZMA, I can hardly hold my eyes open. It's wierd, my facial muscles seem tired making my eyes want to close but my drift into sleep is a much more "conscious" one for lack of a better description. I'm more alert until suddenly, I'm asleep. I've had more vivid and more memorable dreams the last two nights as well. That has to be a good sign.

The bottom line is, the vitamin companies have tried, and often fraudulently claimed, to produce a supplement that increases the natural production of HGH and or testosterone. It seems logical that if the right nutritional conditions exist, a supplement could do such a thing. Whether or not ZMA (or Somatomax for that matter) does either of those things has yet to be settled but if ZMA helps me sleep and helps me feel better and it's just three vitamins and not in mega doses, I can't see a reason not to take them.

All vitamins and drugs affect each person differently. My wife tried ZMA last night and she said that it kept her from sleeping as deeply as she normally would. For her, a Lortab would keep her awake all night but it would give me a relaxed, restful night.

I do agree with you on the warning about supplements though. The manufacturers use the word "natural" way too often. I say that snake venom is natural too but I don't think I want any of it in my body, lol!

Cheers,
Jeff

[Birgit]

Originally Posted by j_nolesfan

All I know is, about an hour after taking a melatonin and the recommended dose of ZMA, I can hardly hold my eyes open. It's wierd, my facial muscles seem tired making my eyes want to close but my drift into sleep is a much more "conscious" one for lack of a better description. I'm more alert until suddenly, I'm asleep. I've had more vivid and more memorable dreams the last two nights as well. That has to be a good sign.

I do agree with you on the warning about supplements though. The manufacturers use the word "natural" way too often. I say that snake venom is natural too but I don't think I want any of it in my body, lol!

Cheers,
Jeff

Snake venom, hmmm that I would administer in very small dosages. If you try, please let us know if it helps with sleep...

RE. your sleep and feeling stronger, I'm sure it's the magnesium that has done that. Look up all benefits of magnesium, it's amazing how many different processes in the body that use magnesium. I'll spare the forum for all my magnesium talk, just do your own home work.

Re. vitamin companies and "natural" etc. there's a lot of hokus-pokus out there, and thats why I strongly advise people to educate themselfes on what vitamins are and what they can do for you. I never take any medicin (over the counter or Rx) always go to my nutritionist to get the right combination of vitamins instead of - that being said, because vitamins is not something you just put in your body without knowledge about what they can do. Example: if you get too much B1 and not enough C, your teeth will be aching like you need a root canal! So if you do not know that fact and do not take some C, then you could spend lots of money trying to figure out why you teeth are aching.

So yes I'm all for vitamins and herbal supplements as long as the person taking them, knows why/how much etc.

[j_nolesfan]

Hey Birgit,
I've been doing a little research on magnesium deficiency. I'm going to list the symptoms here with the ones I've experienced in bold:

========================================================
From this article:

With regard to skeletal muscle, one may experience twitches, cramps, muscle tension, muscle soreness, including back aches, neck pain, tension headaches and jaw joint (or TMJ) dysfunction. Also, one may experience chest tightness or a peculiar sensation that he can't take a deep breath. Sometimes a person may sigh a lot.

Symptoms involving impaired contraction of smooth muscles include constipation; urinary spasms; menstrual cramps; difficulty swallowing or a lump in the throat-especially provoked by eating sugar; photophobia, especially difficulty adjusting to oncoming bright headlights in the absence of eye disease.

...the central nervous system is markedly affected. Symptoms include insomnia, anxiety, hyperactivity and restlessness with constant movement, panic attacks, agoraphobia, and premenstrual irritability. Magnesium deficiency symptoms involving the peripheral nervous system include numbness, tingling, and other abnormal sensations, such as zips, zaps and vibratory sensations.

Symptoms or signs of the cardiovascular system include palpitations, heart arrhythmias, angina due to spasms of the coronary arteries, high blood pressure and mitral valve prolapse. Be aware that not all of the symptoms need to be present to presume magnesium deficiency; but, many of them often occur together. For example, people with mitral valve prolapse frequently have palpitations, anxiety, panic attacks and premenstrual symptoms. People with magnesium deficiency often seem to be "uptight." Other general symptoms include a salt craving, both carbohydrate craving and carbohydrate intolerance, especially of chocolate, and breast tenderness.
=======================================================

Now, this is a self diagnosis, of course but I've been taking ZMA for three days now and my heart palpitations are all but gone and even when I do have them, I have to concentrate to even feel them. Now, the worst heart symptoms is maybe a stronger heartbeat than normal when I would have previously had extra (arrhythmic) beats. I'm really excited and hope that this proves to be the answer for me.

I'll keep my fingers crossed and update this thread once I feel I have conclusive evidence. I'm calling my cardiologist this morning to get his opinion on whether or not I may have a magnesium deficiency. According to what I've read, it's really hard to detect and usually requires a 24 hour urine analysis and all the cardiologist did for me was take blood and do some heart monitoring.

Cheers!
Jeff

[Birgit]

Originally Posted by j_nolesfan

Hey Birgit,
I've been doing a little research on magnesium deficiency. I'm going to list the symptoms here with the ones I've experienced in bold:

Now, this is a self diagnosis, of course but I've been taking ZMA for three days now and my heart palpitations are all but gone and even when I do have them, I have to concentrate to even feel them. Now, the worst heart symptoms is maybe a stronger heartbeat than normal when I would have previously had extra (arrhythmic) beats. I'm really excited and hope that this proves to be the answer for me.

I'll keep my fingers crossed and update this thread once I feel I have conclusive evidence. I'm calling my cardiologist this morning to get his opinion on whether or not I may have a magnesium deficiency. According to what I've read, it's really hard to detect and usually requires a 24 hour urine analysis and all the cardiologist did for me was take blood and do some heart monitoring.

Cheers!
Jeff

Glad that the ZMA seems to help!!

Sure it is a selfdiagosis - but if the ZMA helps you, I'll say go for it and keep researching for natural solutions.

BUT do whatever you do in cooperation with your cardiologist or other doctor. If they say "don't do this or that" make sure you get them to really as in really tell you and show you evidence for what they say.

But magnesium rocks! Do be aware though that it is laxitive! You'll for sure know if you have taken too much

[j_nolesfan]

I put in a call to my cardiologist and his nurse called me back. She said that the upper level of normal bloodborne magnesium is 2.1 and mine was 2.2 when I was tested back in June or July. However, she also agreed that if I have any sort of condition that impedes my mag uptake, the high blood level doesn't necessarily mean that I have a high cellular level. I really really want this to be the solution to my heart problem. My cardiologist is supposed to call me back today or Wednesday and give me his opinion. He may also order more testing but I still don't see the point in a blood test if it wasn't low the last time he tested.

To be continued...

[Bill in Houston]

Any word on the continued ZMA use? Are you bigger, faster, stronger? Or at least better rested?

[j_nolesfan]

Bill,
I still sleep very well and I'm dreaming every night. I still feel like it gives me a little more power throughout the day, not energy, but power. It's hard to describe. I'm going back to skate practice for the first time in about 10 weeks this coming Tuesday. I'll probably know more once I start getting back into skating shape. I'll keep you posted.
Regards,
Jeff

[Bill in Houston]

Before you started taking it were you having trouble sleeping?

[j_nolesfan]

I've always been a good sleeper for the most part. I've recently started Wellbutrin as an ADHD non stimulant treatment. It has caused me to not be able to go back to sleep at night if I get up to go to the bathroom. I was mainly looking for aiding in sleep but this purports to have other benefits such as a testosterone boost. So, I'm dreaming better and I think the power I'm feeling is an increase in testosterone. While E.D. has never been an issue for me, there was an improvement in that respect as well

I'm hooked,
Jeff

[Bill in Houston]

Gotcha, thanks. I sometimes have trouble sleeping, so I was curious.

[chacata]

Why so many drugs ?

There are many natural supplements and vitamins in fruits and vegetables why just take a couple of pills and leave it at that?

I´m 25 years old and i only take drugs or medicines when i´m sore or with a disease that is almost never.

I eat fruits every day and when i have to do something i do it try to walk everywhere i can and i usually use my strength every day lift anything that has to be lifted and like that. And it feels great to know what your´re capable of cause you did it yesterdeay or the day before.

So excuse me if i sound rude (english is not my primary language) but i don´t see why you have to use so many drugs and pills just to feel good. Iread your thread about slim fast and the time i saw the topic name i knew what was coming because i almost lost a friend due to some magic "reduce fat fast" pills. Drugs are dangerous no matter what the manufacturer says (usually very fantastic stories) or what the doctors say (unless it is a doctor of your complete trust most of them are getting paid by the drug companies to sell and prescribe more drugs). Remember the drug business is BIG and they would do anything that has to be done to keep it that way.

[j_nolesfan]

The only "drug" I take is Wellbutrin. I do take several vitamins. ZMA is a complex of vitamins, not any exotic herbs or drugs. It's helped me sleep and it gives me vivid dreams. No harm there...
Jeff

[roller_dudette]

Originally Posted by chacata

Why so many drugs ?

There are many natural supplements and vitamins in fruits and vegetables why just take a couple of pills and leave it at that?

I´m 25 years old and i only take drugs or medicines when i´m sore or with a disease that is almost never.

I eat fruits every day and when i have to do something i do it try to walk everywhere i can and i usually use my strength every day lift anything that has to be lifted and like that. And it feels great to know what your´re capable of cause you did it yesterdeay or the day before.

So excuse me if i sound rude (english is not my primary language) but i don´t see why you have to use so many drugs and pills just to feel good. Iread your thread about slim fast and the time i saw the topic name i knew what was coming because i almost lost a friend due to some magic "reduce fat fast" pills. Drugs are dangerous no matter what the manufacturer says (usually very fantastic stories) or what the doctors say (unless it is a doctor of your complete trust most of them are getting paid by the drug companies to sell and prescribe more drugs). Remember the drug business is BIG and they would do anything that has to be done to keep it that way.

Agreed, ALL drugs are toxins on your body and cause problems. Have you tried herbal? I have ADHD, 37, take ZERO meds, no OTC ones either cause even anti-inflamatories are toxins and actually dely healing, no joke. I used to take meds, none are geared to CURE any problems, just treat symptoms which they dont really help anyways, all cause problems then more and more drugs are needed. I felt aweful. The pharmaceutical company is geared towards profit. I would see a naturalpath if I were you. Please dont take offense to this message. Most people go your route. I just dont believe in it if you want health.

[chacata]

it gives me vivid dreams.

Now that sounds creepy haha

[j_nolesfan]

Originally Posted by chacata

Now that sounds creepy haha

Actually, it's quite pleasant. It's the magnesium in the ZMA. It makes the dreams easier to remember and more frequent.

[j_nolesfan]

Chacata,
It's funny you should mention "magic". There's not any magic in Diet Coke, or Diet Pepsi, yet they contain Aspartame, the same thing that I believe has caused my problems as well.

Dudette,
I haven't tried herbal for ADHD but I do know several people who went that route and ended up on medications after some serious struggles. My wife's second cousin's son (say that three times fast..) was kicked out of two private schools because his ADHD was so bad that he couldn't control himself enough to not be a disruption in the classroom. His mother actually has some medical/nutritional schooling and dedicated years of her life to try and remedy this problem (it's not behavioral as some think, I know you know that but some don't) and they still ended up on prescription meds. That's not to say that it wouldn't work for me but it's a risky proposition. If it doesn't work, I could put my job in jeopardy (more on that below).

I do agree that you can't put anything into your body without some sort of result, some good (healthy natural food) and some bad (almost everything else). But, in some cases, cases where the quality of life is made significantly better, it becomes a judgement call.

For example, after getting off of dexadrine for ADHD, I became so scatterbrained that I almost worked my way out of a job. My boss and coworkers were losing confidence in my work. Since starting Wellbutrin, I've started to turn that around. For me, the choice is healthy and unemployed or slightly less healthy and gainfully employed. I also have to consider the wellfare of my family when considering that question. I like to think that I can make up for it to some degree by being healthy as many other ways as possible through diet and exercise.

I'm not taking offense to any comments. I appreciate each opinion and all advice that I can get. You never know when you'll get that one piece of advice that will change your life for the better.

Thanks again,
Jeff

[roller_dudette]

Look into this

http://www.nativeremedies.com/

I think you can call them and they can fix you up appropriately. Try it cause it takes several weeks to kick in and if it helps, you could start to wean yourself off of meds. Or check into Naturalpathy.

So much is chemicals in our body. I CANNOT eat any crap. I do drink some electrolyte drinks, thats it for chemicals/sugar most the time. I eat food clean from the ground, unprocessed, makes a big difference. Things like wheat could be a problem too. I had to eliminate gluten for other reasons, but it sure did clear up my brain too!

I still have problems with being too antsy, not being able to concentrate, etc. I MUST exercise otherwise I get edgy. I medicate myself with coffee. Does the same thing for me. When I saw a Dr, I was on uppers, downers, stuff for my stomach, etc. etc. dizzy, heart racing, not sleeping from rebound effects. I didnt like it. Just trying to help, hope something might help......

[Bill in Houston]

We got ADD meds from native remedies. Seemed to help a tiny bit but nowhere near enough.