Pace line etiquette

[FirstLoser]

Hi - just wanted to get opinions on my blog post and see if I can turn it into something positive...

Pace line etiquette post.
http://firstloser.wordpress.com/2009...ine-etiquette/

I've had a couple of incidents with indoor practice pace lines where it seems like someone is going to get hurt, or where poor sportsmaship causes unnecessary rifts. I'd love to create a list of pace line do's & don't's. How about here with this post?

Thanks for any input.

Chowley
http://firstloser.wordpress.com

[skaterdog]

That would really piss me off. Very rude.

If you can't hang the least you can do is stay out of the way. I think it's up to the coach to enforce it.

I used to skate with a guy that would do this all the time. He was supposedly an assistant coach but he felt free to cut in at any time. I eventually just refused to let him in. I put my hand on the skater in front of me and forced him out.

[SkateMO]

In my opinion, there is really only one rule when it comes to pace line etiquette...If a "move" has the potential of causing you or someone else to fall, don't do it.

I don't race indoors, but I do a lot of the outdoor NROC races. Quite honestly, I'm always amazed at how competitive everyone is. It's great to win and do well, but I would personally rather finish a few places back, then try to make a crazy maneuver in a pace line that causes me to crash. I skate about 4,000 miles/year, and I typically have 1-2 bad falls per year. Our group skates anywhere between 20-25 mph, so any fall has the potential of doing a lot of damage...

Sadly, the biggest reason why I won't skate indoors is because of the crashing. The local speed skating club (indoor team) does not put up pads, and as a result, I really have no interest in racing with them. If you're going all out and someone trips you up causing you to hit the wall at high speeds, it's just not worth it in my opinon.

Edit - Chowley, I didn't read your blog before posting my comment, so it was a little off subject. I just figured you were referring to the "dangers" that come along with a pace line. Nonetheless, after reading your blog, I too, would be a little upset if someone cut me off after dropping out. I agree with skaterdog that most of the "refereeing" should be done by the coaches, but the situation you're describing was something the skater should have recognized on her own...just "basic respect" if you ask me.

[Bill in Houston]

Originally Posted by skaterdog

I put my hand on the skater in front of me and forced him out.

+1
people who consider themselves to be exceptions to the rules won't obey any rule you come up with. just block her out.

[Josh22]

It is obviously rude. But you learned something from it so that's a good thing. If it were me I would have said something when it happened!!

If you are going to quit then get out of the way!!
Don't jump in the middle of the pack after you have already quit during the pace.
Don't go wide on the corners because the paced slowed.
If you make a bad pass move to the back.

That's all I can come up with.

[speedysktr]

Definitely a crap move to cut in after you've been dropped. If you let her in or yielded the it's your fault too, but if she she essentially rode you out to get in and then quit again, the coach should have been all over her. On the other hand, you've got to be prepared to make that move to get around someone at any time if you know they're weak. Anyone that is struggling or already been dropped/quit from either an indoor lapping paceline or overtaken by a passing outdoor paceline should be viewed as someone to be in front of. If they've already been dropped chances are they'll drop again. Either way stragglers should always stay at the back. As I said, even if you're hanging on for dear life sometimes you need to push yourself and make that move as long as you can do it safely and intelligently. As soon as that gap opens just a little it should become second nature to just take it. If you're wondering, "gee whiz, I wonder if they're gonna close that back down" then you're thinking about the wrong things and letting someone else race their race instead of you racing your race.

[coomes]

Pace line etiquette? I'm not sure that is what this is all about. My first impression is that this girl wants to get your attention... and it seems that she has. Another possibility is that she is doing this at a coaches behest to give you a situation to think through in the event it occurs in a race. I am reminded of a coach I had who decided that a group of us were not sufficiently aggressive. So he took us to the video arcade to play a game called "Death Race 2000" where the goal was to run over as many people as possible while the timer ran.

[unicycle1234]

I think you are overreacting. First, if you and your "elite" friends are going 10 seconds laps, she would have to be skating behind you for a lap or so before she could throw a pass to get in front of you. It wouldn't be just dropping in front of you. This happens all the time in races, the only way is to pass her back. Given your description of the team, you should be able to do that with a low energy late pass in the next corner, regardless if she drops out or not.

Speedskating is not a country dance, nothing is planned, you learn to deal with different situation and get better. Yes it suck if someone fall in front of you and you go down with them, but no coach will listen to your whining that they suck (otherwise why would they fall right:-)

As for what or what not to do, anything that would be called foul by a referee you should not do, anything else is a good practice for you.

[speedysktr]

Originally Posted by coomes

Another possibility is that she is doing this at a coaches behest to give you a situation to think through in the event it occurs in a race.

+1

Originally Posted by unicycle1234

Speedskating is not a country dance...

awesome

When I need to crack the whip at practice,
my favorite line is adapted from the movie Snatch:

"This is not a tickling competition, this is speedskating now PICK IT UP!"

Originally Posted by unicycle1234

...As for what or what not to do, anything that would be called foul by a referee you should not do, anything else is a good practice for you.

+1
In other words, suck it up.

[skaterdog]

I don't know...If you can't stay with the pack I don't think you jump back in wherever and whenever you feel like it so the pack can get used to the quirks of competition.

True..it ain't no country dance and all...but the slackers who don't want to do the work should stay the hell out of the way.

Pointing out that they are 10 second laps and the condescending implication that these aren't elite skaters was bad form.

[oldnslow]

Wow. I have found that in this sport of speed skating, opinions very. Even the calls that the officials make are "judgment" calls and usually when trying to dispute the call, it's a waist of time.
Just tell the person what they did is dangerous and could possibly hurt somebody, or actually, it might be better to have the coach discuss it with the group.
Otherwise, Shut Up and Skate!

[MachV]

Just like the bumper sticker:

Lead, Follow or get the hell out of the way.

It is speedskating. lol.

[georgn]

Where is it written that practice should be easy?

I totally feel you on the frustration but...

• It's a practice. This was some adversity that made your workout harder. Try to embrace it. Paraphrasing Martina Navratilova you workout hard to make your competitions easy
  
• You may be good enough to stay in a fast draft, but from your own description, you're not a pace setter. Someday, you'll be elite and able to set the rules. Until then...
  
• You learned a bunch of things here. What's not to like?
  
• In a real race, this other person would have been DQed or just left behind on the road. So don't waste too much effort worrying about them.
  
• Lastly, this is one practice in hundreds that you have had/will have.

So keep up the good work. And kick this persons butt on race day.

[skaterdog]

It ain't supposed to be easy...so if you can't hang with the pack you better work harder next time.

We had a couple of younger very talented but lazy skaters who used to pull out of the paceline also at certain spots to "adjust their skates" And then jump in (at the back)when they had a nice rest and finish like a champ. That just teaches the other skaters to be lazy.

I don't believe encouraging laziness is a good motivational tool.

You have to put in the hard work to achieve excellence. There aren't any shortcuts.

[unicycle1234]

Originally Posted by skaterdog

True..it ain't no country dance and all...but the slackers who don't want to do the work should stay the hell out of the way.

This is condescending:-) so anyone who can't stay with the pack is a slacker? I think at least she is trying, and soon may be able to stay. If she did an legitimate pass to get in front of the person, I see nothing wrong.

Originally Posted by skaterdog

Pointing out that they are 10 second laps and the condescending implication that these aren't elite skaters was bad form.

You totally missed the point. I'm trying to point out that it wouldn't be possible for someone just drop in the pace line at that speed. Apparently the person did one lap, so she must have chased the pack first then passed. I commend her for challenging herself. As a more developed teammate, I'd encourage her rather than belittle her as a slacker. I can't say if she was endangering the person as I was not there, but it sounded that it was more of an annoyance rather than dangerous. Last I checked, you can't disqualify someone for annoying you:-)

[skaterdog]

Nice try but your comment chiding him for being "elite" (your quotation marks) was condescending. In any case if you are averaging 10 second laps...and I'm not a math major..but it would make sense the the ending laps were much faster than the beginning.

I guess in today's "everyone's a winner" society letting people sit out whenever the going gets tough is the way to do it. But I think you have to do the hard work to get to the next level. Coddling the lazy skaters just spreads a slackers mentality to the whole team.


I think your standards are just settling for mediocrity.,,but maybe it makes everyone feel better.

[unicycle1234]

Originally Posted by skaterdog

I guess in today's "everyone's a winner" society letting people sit out whenever the going gets tough is the way to do it.

Do you even read what you wrote? "letting people sit out" is to ask the person not to chase the pack and pass skater faster than she is, or to the original poster that blame the others for not able to finish the drill.

Break aways and stalling are tactics employed by racers all the time, so if this person had to catch the pack after someone stalled him, that is a good excercise for him. It is no good just draft all the way through a practice. By the way, there is no rule against someone passing up then drop out. Think this may be a team mate of your competition. What you should do? This is a practice.

[skaterdog]

Originally Posted by unicycle1234

Do you even read what you wrote? "letting people sit out" is to ask the person not to chase the pack and pass skater faster than she is, or to the original poster that blame the others for not able to finish the drill.

I can't make sense of that sentence.

I do understand what you are saying. I think you have drills to mimic the competition nuances you describe without encouraging laziness by letting people skip the hard work at practice.

I think what you are saying is these people can't keep up.....I'm making the case that there are people who won't keep because it would be too much hard work. Those are two different things.

[MachV]

Proper etiquette would be to wait until you are lapped and join in at the rear of the pack. You don't try to jump into the middle of the pack. If dropped once, they'll drop again.

[skaterdog]

Originally Posted by MachV

Proper etiquette would be to wait until you are lapped and join in at the rear of the pack. You don't try to jump into the middle of the pack. If dropped once, they'll drop again.

Yep. That way you still keep putting the work in if you are dropped. You don't go sit down and rest.