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Old February 11th, 2010, 11:36 AM   #81
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Hi 1beast,

First OFF, Tell me/us more about your history in and with Skating and post it on your profile or an add to your Intro Post via an Edit. It's OK if it is lame and you weren't an Artistic Champion.



Harold from Kansas (SkateVideoGuy) is posting some good stuff from his research over in another part of this forum. Join In

Normal StLouis, or East St Louis,
Tough part of town or OK
If a Gang Part you certainly want to learn how to CHANGE the climate

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
Normal part of town
more upscale than not
no gangs
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Old February 11th, 2010, 10:51 PM   #82
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Quas skates are still very popular. this forums quad area quickly surpassed the inline sections. by a huge margin. to me that's a sign that plus other observations, I'm starting to think, but will need more convincing, Quad Skating as many things 70-80's related is experiencing a resurgence if any thing. the quad section even passed speed and aggresive, both inline mainly passions
at 60k posts and climbing...http://www.skatelogforum.com/forums/index.php
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Old February 11th, 2010, 11:49 PM   #83
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Quas skates are still very popular. this forums quad area quickly surpassed the inline sections. by a huge margin. to me that's a sign that plus other observations, I'm starting to think, but will need more convincing, Quad Skating as many things 70-80's related is experiencing a resurgence if any thing. the quad section even passed speed and aggresive, both inline mainly passions
at 60k posts and climbing...http://www.skatelogforum.com/forums/index.php

I had NO idea how big the culture is here in St Louis until about 6 months ago. We were invited to a birthday party at a local rink on a Friday nite and it was JAMMED PACKED with not only people my age (42) but entire families. It was a real eye opener for me and my wife.
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Old February 12th, 2010, 12:37 AM   #84
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Well you know it is not that to many people come every night and the extra cash at the end of the week is such a burden so they close the doors.
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Old February 12th, 2010, 05:09 AM   #85
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I had NO idea how big the culture is here in St Louis until about 6 months ago. We were invited to a birthday party at a local rink on a Friday nite and it was JAMMED PACKED with not only people my age (42) but entire families. It was a real eye opener for me and my t wife.
with the right rink you'll see that. rollerskating is one of the few family activities left to enjoy. Movies and bowling. , but not much else for the entire family.theme parks, to do , compared to other things it's a bargin.
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Old February 12th, 2010, 05:22 AM   #86
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We tried to get a derby team going at our rink and we could not get anyone interested in it.
It's kinda way late for me to reply to this one, but here's a point I think it's important to make. Most folks in the roller derby world look with suspicion on leagues owned by or organized by rink owners.

It's not that I think that rink owners are evil or out to steal our non-existent mad profits, it's just that putting your single largest vendor in charge of your business is well, kind of dumb.

A league has its own interests, the rink owner has theirs. When the two are different parties they either (hopefully) meet somewhere down the middle or they part ways.

A league that is owned/run by a rink owner is less likely to graduate to an arena-type venue. That monthly payday when the bout happens is too good for the rink owner to give up, just to pay the convention center to pull people out of the place they own.

Practices are more likely to wind up being "when it's most convenient for the owner."

Why "waste" money paying to bring in teams from other towns for interleague bouts? Bouts with all local skaters draw twice as many friends and family anyways. The skaters growing their skills by playing against strangers and moving on to regional and national competition is probably a lot less important to a rink owner than it is to the skaters.

As to the story I relayed last year, the league I'm with FINALLY managed to move the bulk of our practices to our hometown rink a few months later. It turned out to have been all about some issues they'd had with a hockey league a while back. Skaters apparently used the rink as their babysitters during practices.
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Old February 12th, 2010, 07:33 PM   #87
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with the right rink you'll see that. rollerskating is one of the few family activities left to enjoy. Movies and bowling. , but not much else for the entire family.theme parks, to do , compared to other things it's a bargin.
Exactly!

One kid or 7...movies anymore are $7 - $10 (not to mention a drink and popcorn, candy or other snack). Bowling costs anywhere from $3 - $15 per GAME (depending on day/time, and with only 2 people, that MIGHT be all of 15 or 20 minutes)...we won't even get into the cost of amusement parks.

There are very few "cheap" places to go where a whole family can enjoy doing the activity and not many of us can afford to spend a hundred or so on other stuff right now.

Movies - you have to look at the ages of all your kids. I don't mind a bit of language (hey, I'm human, I've "slipped" in front of my kids on numerous occassions! LOL) or some mild voilence (we're all big fans of Leverage here), but the overly sexual stuff, not for my 5 and 6 yr. old! To find something all 7 of us (kids now range from 14 - 5) actually want to watch, that's entertaining for all, is rare to come by.

Bowling - my two youngest can barely pick up and 8 pound ball yet (they're small for their ages), and that's the lightest ones local alleys have. They'd have to sit while the other five of us bowled.

Amusement Parks - in a word...okay, two....height restrictions! Having to wait in lines while the youngest ones try to find something they can ride...and then them having to wait - and one of us wait with them - while the older kids and hubby or I ride something else? Forget it.

Skating here is $4.50 for a 3 hour session. Even throwing in a couple large drinks ($2 each) for everyone to share...it's about the cheapest thing there is LEFT to do for a family anymore. $35.50 (7 admissions + 2 drinks) is a great deal! It keeps the kids active, keeps 'em off the street, and thanks to going during family time - with people of all ages on skates - not only have hubby and I been making new friends, so have all of our kids.
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Old February 12th, 2010, 11:06 PM   #88
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with the right rink you'll see that. rollerskating is one of the few family activities left to enjoy. Movies and bowling. , but not much else for the entire family.theme parks, to do , compared to other things it's a bargin.
I agree, bowling $40-$50, movies $60-$75, theme parks $200 +, a night out with the family at the local rink.....Priceless
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Old February 12th, 2010, 11:17 PM   #89
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B) People don't take responsibility for their actions as customers - I personally know of more than one rink run into the ground by litigation and threats of litigation. Rather than deal with it anymore, the owners said 'screw it, I'm out.' Add in a poor general economy (especially for small business) and less up-and-coming passion (from problem A) and you get rinks folding rather than renovating/reviving. The cost to insure also has to be astronomical. As a speed skater I've seen many events fade away because places simply don't want to bear the risk or someone eating it and suing the city/county/park/school/facility for everything they're worth.

Im not one for the legal stuff but, if you were to have a sign stating or require people to sign a "skate at your own risk" form and register the business as a limited liability would that alleviate the risk of litigation?
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Old February 12th, 2010, 11:54 PM   #90
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Hi skatedad775,

Many, if not most, Rinks have that "Skate at Your Own Risk" type signage, and some add to that a "sign a waiver of responsibility" strategy.

Neither tactic will prevent them from being sued, and if the Plaintiff can show/prove some type of "negligence" on the Rink's part relating to the incident, then there goes the Ball Game.

Some states have even enacted Laws that give some protection to Rinks, but none are foolproof.

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Old February 13th, 2010, 12:07 AM   #91
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Hi skatedad775,

Many, if not most, Rinks have that "Skate at Your Own Risk" type signage, and some add to that a "sign a waiver of responsibility" strategy.

Neither tactic will prevent them from being sued, and if the Plaintiff can show/prove some type of "negligence" on the Rink's part relating to the incident, then there goes the Ball Game.

Some states have even enacted Laws that give some protection to Rinks, but none are foolproof.

Harold
So i would have to say, "lawyer up" do your research and be a smart business person overall before going head first into a business with HIGH liability?
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Old February 13th, 2010, 12:13 AM   #92
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So i would have to say, "lawyer up" do your research and be a smart business person overall before going head first into a business with HIGH liability?
They do...that's why they don't open new rinks
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Old February 13th, 2010, 12:29 AM   #93
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They do...that's why they don't open new rinks
Maby so but, if i had the ability i would not let that stop me from opening a new rink....especially if i knew of a certian area where one would do spectacular business
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Old February 13th, 2010, 12:35 AM   #94
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Maby so but, if i had the ability i would not let that stop me from opening a new rink....especially if i knew of a certian area where one would do spectacular business
It depends a lot on the state too - CA is worse than most since we like to sue each other at every possible chance. Suing cities and counties has been a large factor in parks, trails, paths, etc. getting shut down as well here
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Old February 13th, 2010, 12:43 AM   #95
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Talking Link to rinks around the USA.

It is unfortunate that a lot of rinks have closed but their is a lot still open.The question are they still open and close to you.We have to drive 30 miles one way now.When I lived in the Sacramento /Elk Grove Calif area there are still 5 rinks still opened.One opened in 1947 and is still there and busy as can be. The rest was built in the 1972-73 time frame.

CHECK OUT LINK BELOW FOR ROLLER SKATE BUSSINESS'S IN THE USA.
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http://www.create-a-skate.com/rorineyou1.html
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Old February 13th, 2010, 12:45 AM   #96
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It depends a lot on the state too - CA is worse than most since we like to sue each other at every possible chance. Suing cities and counties has been a large factor in parks, trails, paths, etc. getting shut down as well here
At a quick glance (preparing for my daughters 4th b-day) N.J. seems to be a 50/50 chance between plaitiff and defendant both partys had better have thier stuff straight

http://www.jonbramnick.com/CM/Articl...ating-Rink.asp
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Old February 13th, 2010, 01:37 AM   #97
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Im not one for the legal stuff but, if you were to have a sign stating or require people to sign a "skate at your own risk" form and register the business as a limited liability would that alleviate the risk of litigation?
It would depend on the wording...and who was signing. Under 18 would have to have a parent/legal guardian sign as it's VERY rare to find a binding contract that a minor can legally sign.

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Many, if not most, Rinks have that "Skate at Your Own Risk" type signage, and some add to that a "sign a waiver of responsibility" strategy.

Neither tactic will prevent them from being sued, and if the Plaintiff can show/prove some type of "negligence" on the Rink's part relating to the incident, then there goes the Ball Game.

Some states have even enacted Laws that give some protection to Rinks, but none are foolproof.
If you look close enough, you can find that "Skate at your own risk" sign somewhere at almost every rink, but usually that sign is in very small print, high up on a wall and/or surrounded by other notices, so they're fairly easy to miss.

No matter how careful you are, there's always going to be a loophole. But if the rink can provide the signed waiver, prove they had guards and followed all safety precautions, whoever tries to sue won't have much of a leg to stand on.

Personally, I'd install video cams if I ever opened a rink. Legal notices about the cameras would be posted as well as the rules, too...of course. Coupled with the signing of a waiver AFTER an adult or adult AND child read a copy of the rules, which also made mention of the cameras...18+, don't sign, you're not skating...17 and under, parent doesn't sign, you don't skate. And my guards would be trained! Not any 16 yr. old off the street could come in and get a job, not even at the consession stand. Keeping the files might get hard, but I would enforce that the waiver has to be "renewed" once a month, too.

In this day and age, you can never be too careful. IF a lawsuit ever did come up, I'd be prepared. "This is the signed waiver" *plop it down in front of judge* "This is exactly what happened..." *roll tape* If my rink was at fault, so be it, I'd be willing to take that responsibility (you have to be to open/own/run a rink)...if we did everything right (as I would hope), well...I would hope the judge would laugh them out of the courtroom.
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Old February 13th, 2010, 01:53 AM   #98
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ABSOLUTELY!!!!!.......my thoughts exactly. Let them know right off the bat "dont eff with me"
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Old February 13th, 2010, 01:59 AM   #99
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Wow...I just realized I've spent WAY too much time helping friends through college. LOL Two of my good friends have been through law school. I helped them both with homework, quizzed them for their tests, etc. Sadly, neither of the morons have done anything with their degrees...do they not understand how much a lawyer can make nowadays????
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Old February 13th, 2010, 02:20 AM   #100
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Hi skatedad775 & 7Skaters,

I've been advocating the Video Cam useage for Skating Rinks since about 1976, when I first got into doing Videography. Most folks laughed me off, but that has changed a bit over the years. At least the equipment is far better and cheaper these days, although video data storage is still an issue.

The Signage issue has been pushed by the Roller Rink Associations for decades.

The "Signed Waivers" are a very cumbersome and time consuming affair, although with todays computerization, it can be much less so.

Even if those things are done, if the Rink is not doing a whole long list of other safety related and records keeping activities, they can still get nailed. All that stuff is also a bit cumbersome and time consuming.

Harold
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