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Roller Dance and Session Skating Forum Discussions about roller dancing, jamskating, rexing, rink session skating, dance circle skating, and similar types of recreational indoor and outdoor skate dancing .

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Old April 27th, 2009, 05:52 AM   #1
mz foxie
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Default Floor guards for adult session is odd to me

One of the rinks I go to has an adult session on Monday night with floor guards. I can understand them being at an all ages session with kids present, but not for the 21 and over crowd. What's your opinion?
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Old April 27th, 2009, 08:15 AM   #2
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depends on how many people are there and how many can't skate...first adult session I attended tonight had about 50 ...no floor guard needed...second session had close to 300 they had a floor guard on the floor and was needed....even with adults you will get some that either can't skate real well or try and skate beyond their ability and can wreck havoc when you have large crowds...having a floor guard also helps in case of an accident that leads to a lawsuit....I would rather have a floor guard on adult night and not need them...as to need them and not have them....
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Old April 27th, 2009, 10:34 AM   #3
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with more than a few people on the floor I think it would be wise if only for insurance purposes.
I'm betting Rink associations have their guidelines for this.
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Old April 27th, 2009, 03:02 PM   #4
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depends on how many people are there and how many can't skate...first adult session I attended tonight had about 50 ...no floor guard needed...second session had close to 300 they had a floor guard on the floor and was needed....even with adults you will get some that either can't skate real well or try and skate beyond their ability and can wreck havoc when you have large crowds...having a floor guard also helps in case of an accident that leads to a lawsuit....I would rather have a floor guard on adult night and not need them...as to need them and not have them....
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Old April 27th, 2009, 06:15 PM   #5
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as long as they're not overdoing it, it's no big deal.

actually i've been going off and on to an adult night here and there's a guy who's always there, but it wasn't until a couple weeks back that i found out he was a guard when he slowed someone down. perfect.
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Old April 27th, 2009, 09:55 PM   #6
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well, adult nights are still a public skate. we often see birthday parties on adult nights; folks dressed in their worst 70's/80's costumes, skating beyond their abilities (usually trying to compete with the seasoned skaters and eating it badly). people still skate in the wrong direction, or don't look where they're going. the usual stuff. but mostly it's not so bad. it never requires more than one rink guard, and i usually joke with the guard, adult night is like being paid to sleep. . . hahaha
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Old April 28th, 2009, 03:47 PM   #7
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1 floor guard is great to have especially if you have crowds over 150. About 2 yrs a ago here in Sac at a local adult night skate. There was over 500 people attended. 2 people fell and caused a chain reaction in which 20 - 30 skaters fell. They had stop the session "to pickup the pieces". It took about 30 mins to clean up the "bodies" and the floor. The people that fell was skating on the outside (rookies), which is "no-no". Also because non skaters don't know any skating "etiquette" they are a danger to themselves plus others. The guards cam assist those non skaters off the floor safely. So having a guard on an adult night, is not a bad idea. Plus having a DJ to remind the skaters, if you are or unskilled do not skate on the outside or stand. You will get "picked off".
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Old April 28th, 2009, 06:01 PM   #8
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I agree with others.

The first adult skate a couple weeks ago, I did think it was strange, but after seeing that not all of the adults could actually skate, I understood why they had the guards.

It wasn't so much for the "slowing down" aspect (outside was reserved for the speed skaters, inside the "ring" for jam/artistic, backwards any time, etc.) but it was more for the "Oh crap, someone just fell" aspect. I don't know if that's regulated or not, as others have suggested, it's possible, but if someone gets hurt...it is nice to have someone there so they don't try to sue the pants off the place.

They've already had to cut the races (a few years ago, they even sanded off the start/finish line ) due to sue-happy idiots, so as outsk8u put it...better to have them and not need 'em than not have them and need them.
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Old April 30th, 2009, 03:17 AM   #9
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Smile Floor Guards Law Ohio

Do a search for Ohio Laws Roller Skating and find much information. You could probably do this for most any state and find information. The following is copied and pasted from that site.

Ohio Revised Code
4171.07 Floor supervisors - duties, training.
Each operator shall maintain at least one floor supervisor on duty for every one hundred seventy-five roller skaters when the roller skating rink is open for sessions. The floor supervisor shall be in a position to observe the skate floor and shall monitor activity on the skate floor and be available to assist skaters in understanding and adhering to the responsibilities of roller skaters set forth in section 4171.08 of the Revised Code. The floor supervisor shall comply with the duties of a floor supervisor as defined by the roller skating rink operators of America or its successor organization, including directing traffic and assisting roller skaters who may fall or sustain injuries. The floor supervisor also shall issue warnings, reprimands, or penalties to roller skaters upon their violation of the responsibilities set forth in section 4171.08 of the Revised Code.

No person shall act as a floor supervisor unless he has received the training appropriate for such duties.

Effective Date: 04-01-1993

Their is much more information at this site that could be of interest to Ohio skaters and as I stated you could try a similar search for your state. I am sorry that I do not know how to direct link this, I am just a computer illiterate old fart.
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Old April 30th, 2009, 03:38 AM   #10
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Default Complete Roller Skating Law Ohio

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Ohio Administrative Code Home Help Route: Ohio Revised Code» TITLE [41] XLI LABOR AND INDUSTRY
CHAPTER 4171: ROLLER SKATING RINKS
4171.01 Roller skating rink definitions.
As used in Chapter 4171. of the Revised Code:

(A) “Operator” means a person that owns, manages, controls, directs, or has operational responsibility for a roller skating rink.

(B) “Roller skater” means a person wearing roller skates while in a roller skating rink for the purpose of recreational or competitive roller skating. “Roller skater” includes any person entering a roller skating rink as an invitee, whether or not the person pays consideration to enter.

(C) “Roller skating rink” means a building, facility, or premises that provides an area specifically designed to be used by the public for recreational or competitive roller skating.

(D) “Spectator” means a person who is present in a roller skating rink only for the purpose of observing recreational or competitive roller skating.

Effective Date: 04-01-1993

4171.02 Repealed.
Effective Date: 10-29-1995

4171.03 Operator's certificate of registration required.
No person shall operate a roller skating rink without first obtaining a certificate of registration pursuant to this chapter.

Effective Date: 04-01-1993

4171.04 Certificate of registration - application, issuance, renewal.
(A) Before a person may operate any roller skating rink in the state, the person shall:

(1) Apply to the superintendent of the division of industrial compliance in the department of commerce on forms designated by the superintendent for a certificate of registration;

(2) Provide an inventory of all the roller skating rinks that the applicant intends to operate, and any other information the superintendent may reasonably require on the application;

(3) Include with the application a registration fee of twenty-five dollars for each roller skating rink to be operated by the applicant.

(B) Upon compliance with division (A) of this section, the superintendent shall issue a certificate of registration to the operator for each roller skating rink to be operated by the applicant. Each certificate shall remain in force as follows:

(1) Until the thirty-first day of December next ensuing; or

(2) For sixty days after the dissolution of a partnership.

(C) In case of the dissolution of a partnership by death, the surviving partner or partners may operate a roller skating rink pursuant to the certificate of registration obtained by the partnership in accordance with this chapter for a period of sixty days following dissolution. The heirs or representatives of deceased persons and receivers or trustees in bankruptcy appointed by any competent authority may operate under the certificate of registration of the person succeeded in possession.

(D) The superintendent shall renew an operator’s certificate of registration in accordance with the standard license renewal procedure set forth in Chapter 4745. of the Revised Code upon payment of a renewal fee of twenty-five dollars for each roller skating rink to be operated by the applicant.

(E) Money received from the registration and renewal fees collected pursuant to this chapter shall be paid into the state treasury to the credit of the industrial compliance operating fund created in section 121.084 of the Revised Code.

Effective Date: 09-26-1996

4171.05 Minimum safety standards in interest of public.
The general assembly acknowledges that the recreational sport of roller skating is practiced by a large number of citizens of Ohio, provides a wholesome and healthy family activity which should be encouraged, and significantly contributes to the economy of this state. The general assembly further acknowledges that roller skating as a recreational sport can be hazardous to roller skaters and that minimal safety standards for, and duties and responsibilities of, operators and roller skaters are in the public interest.

Effective Date: 04-01-1993

4171.06 Rink operator - duties.
Each operator shall:

(A) Post the responsibilities of roller skaters and spectators and the duties and liabilities of the operator as prescribed in this chapter, in conspicuous places in at least three locations in the roller skating rink;

(B) Maintain the stability and legibility of all signs, symbols, and posted notices required by this chapter;

(C) Maintain the skating surface in a reasonably safe and clean condition and inspect the skating surface before each session;

(D) Maintain the railings, kickboard risers, and walls surrounding the skating surface in good condition;

(E) Install fire extinguishers and inspect fire extinguishers at recommended intervals;

(F) Inspect emergency lighting units periodically to ensure the lights are in proper order;

(G) Keep exit lights and service area lights on when skating surface lights are turned off during special numbers;

(H) Check rental skates on a regular basis to ensure the skates are in good mechanical condition;

(I) Comply with all applicable state and local safety codes.

Effective Date: 04-01-1993

4171.07 Floor supervisors - duties, training.
Each operator shall maintain at least one floor supervisor on duty for every one hundred seventy-five roller skaters when the roller skating rink is open for sessions. The floor supervisor shall be in a position to observe the skate floor and shall monitor activity on the skate floor and be available to assist skaters in understanding and adhering to the responsibilities of roller skaters set forth in section 4171.08 of the Revised Code. The floor supervisor shall comply with the duties of a floor supervisor as defined by the roller skating rink operators of America or its successor organization, including directing traffic and assisting roller skaters who may fall or sustain injuries. The floor supervisor also shall issue warnings, reprimands, or penalties to roller skaters upon their violation of the responsibilities set forth in section 4171.08 of the Revised Code.

No person shall act as a floor supervisor unless he has received the training appropriate for such duties.

Effective Date: 04-01-1993

4171.08 Roller skater - duties.
Each roller skater shall:

(A) Maintain reasonable control of his speed and course at all times;

(B) Heed all posted signs and warnings;

(C) Maintain a proper outlook to avoid other roller skaters and objects;

(D) Accept the responsibility for knowing the range of his own ability to negotiate the intended direction of travel while on roller skates and to skate within the limits of that ability;

(E) Refrain from acting in a manner that may cause or contribute to the injury of himself or any other person.

Effective Date: 04-01-1993

4171.09 Roller skater - assumption of risks.
The general assembly recognizes that roller skating as a recreational sport can be hazardous to roller skaters regardless of all feasible safety measures that can be taken. Therefore, roller skaters are deemed to have knowledge of and to expressly assume the risks of and legal responsibility for any losses, damages, or injuries that result from contact with other roller skaters or spectators, injuries that result from falls caused by loss of balance, and injuries that involve objects or artificial structures properly within the intended path of travel of the roller skater, which are not otherwise attributable to an operator’s breach of his duties pursuant to sections 4171.06 and 4171.07 of the Revised Code.

Effective Date: 04-01-1993

4171.10 Assumption of risk is complete defense.
The express assumption of risk set forth in section 4171.09 of the Revised Code shall serve as a complete defense in a tort or other civil action against an operator by a roller skater for injuries resulting from the assumed risks of roller skating. The comparative negligence or other tort provisions of sections 2315.32 to 2315.36 of the Revised Code shall not apply unless the operator has breached the operator’s duties pursuant to sections 4171.06 and 4171.07 of the Revised Code.

Effective Date: 04-09-2003


I decided that the entire section of law might not be to large to post. This way the source of the information is also cited. My apologies if this in any way violates any rules of this forum but felt the information involved would be of interest to many. Again similar information should be available for many or all states.

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Old April 30th, 2009, 05:25 AM   #11
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LAW Writer® Ohio Laws and Rules Search ORC
Ohio Administrative Code Home Help Route: Ohio Revised Code» TITLE [41] XLI LABOR AND INDUSTRY
CHAPTER 4171: ROLLER SKATING RINKS
That's SO cool to actually be able to read those!

The Toledo rink actually has all (or at least most of) that posted on their window, but it's so small, and we're usually getting there JUST in time to go in, that I've never actually gotten to read it.

Now, if the Toledo rink would adhere to it better, I might feel better about going out there....oh, who am I kidding? I like the Maumee rink better! LOL

But...1 guard per every 175 skaters...that was a bit off, since they had 2 for the adult skate two weeks ago. I wonder if they were expecting a bigger crowd? (Many saying they'd come and not show or something)

Adult night was still fun, as are the Sat. morning sessions, esepcially with as dead as it's been lately...plenty of room, very few kids to trip over.
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Old May 1st, 2009, 04:42 PM   #12
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The rink that I work at in Brookpark Ohio always has at least one floor guard regardless what type of session it is. If they anticipate more then 150 skaters for a session they will have a second guard on the floor.

When the weather starts getting warmer in the spring, its not unusual to get to the rink and have the manager send the extra guard home because there is not enough skaters on the floor.

I could not imagine attending a session that did not have at least one guard on the floor. Some of the things I've seen while working, just because they are called Adults, doesn't mean they act like it.

(On one occasion, I remember pulling a parent aside and warning him that if he didn't calm down, I was going to embarass him by sitting him down for 10 minutes in front of his kids. He hadn't been on skates in over 10 years and felt the need to show off in front of his kids and relive his younger days.)


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Old May 1st, 2009, 05:26 PM   #13
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I see nothing wrong with having more floor guards than needed. For one thing, the posted legal disclaimers do not stop ambulance chasing lawers from suing a rink in the event of an injury. They will try to show negligence on the rink's part. That you have adequate guards shows you are taking measures to insure safety. Second, at our adult skate, we have shufflers going at a pretty good clip, occasionally the arthritic knee will buckle and someone goes down. Even though I haven't been a floor guard in nearly 30 years, my instincts to direct traffic still kick in when that happens.

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Old May 1st, 2009, 06:07 PM   #14
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I see nothing wrong with having more floor guards than needed. For one thing, the posted legal disclaimers do not stop ambulance chasing lawers from suing a rink in the event of an injury. They will try to show negligence on the rink's part.
Exactly.

I have yet to see a rink that doesn't have it posted about skating being a sport and skaters are liable for their own actions, "don't participate if you don't think you can" or whatever, etc. But that's just to cover their own butts as well.

When a lawyer does try to sue, they can easily point out it's not really THEIR fault if the people going don't read that message...it's up and available for all to see, not like it's hidden behind the counter in a dusty binder or something, ya know?, having the guards helps insure that no one can claim "there was nobody around, blah blah blah" because the rink can easily counter with the fact that they generally have a manager and/or owner on site during sessions, they had "X amount" of guards (however many they had at that particular session), as well as even consession stand workers who - at my rink - often get ice packs, band-aids, etc. for the minor injuries, and many will often even use cardboard for make-shift splints if an injury to a leg or an arm appears to be more than minor.

Odd for an adult night, as stated originally, I did think so, too...but again, seeing how many of those who showed up that looked like they'd never even been on skates in their life...I'm now glad they did have them out there. Thankfully, no major injuries - not even minor ones. In fact, only a few little falls that I saw (oddly, more by the advanced skaters trying new moves, no less LOL)...but I'm glad they had them "just in case".

This is the one good rink left in the area and I'd hate to see it have to close after all these years because some idiot was trying too hard to do something he/she knew they shouldn't/couldn't, then try to sue the rink for everything they're worth because of a twisted ankle or broken arm.
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Old May 2nd, 2009, 03:44 AM   #15
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Default Long Ago I agreed, yet NOT now

Hi mz foxie, from somewhere,

Long ago, decades, I would have agreed with you. Yet I have now for years seen skaters and their life forces played out on the skate floor. Some lives are quite messy or difficult and that comes out during a session skate and in other relationships. Plus other stuff (sometimes good) comes out in force in an adult session.

Ignoring the bad human behaviour stuff, let's say we have a great skater that wants to do hand stands or head stands from the ramps. Should he be stopped or tolerated. How about a 40-50 yr old female that wants to run down others with her in-lines because they are going too slow?

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Old May 2nd, 2009, 03:58 AM   #16
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Hi Dennis,

Great to have an Attorney, Lawyer, Barrister as a Skater!!
Keep Skating and Thinking!!

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Old May 2nd, 2009, 04:20 AM   #17
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Let's see here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Lauer View Post
4171.06 Rink operator - duties.
Each operator shall:

(C) Maintain the skating surface in a reasonably safe and clean condition and inspect the skating surface before each session;
Could we sue the rink in general, even without an injury, due to failure of this item?? LOL

Ohio Skate - TOLEDO Rink - certainly doesn't check BEFORE the sessions, otherwise they would have noticed the candy wrappers, handful of Starburst, and other assorted papers on the floor before the last session I went to there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Lauer View Post
4171.07 Floor supervisors - duties, training.
The floor supervisor shall be in a position to observe the skate floor and shall monitor activity on the skate floor and be available to assist skaters in understanding and adhering to the responsibilities of roller skaters set forth in section 4171.08 of the Revised Code.
By this, TECHNICALLY, a guard COULD be standing still, on the floor or off. It's a lot easier to see what's going on if you're NOT moving around with the rest of the skaters. As long as they're in a reasonable position to get onto the floor if...LMAO!! Did I just say "if"??....sorry!! I mean WHEN...the need arises.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Lauer View Post
4171.08 Roller skater - duties.

Each roller skater shall:

(A) Maintain reasonable control of his speed and course at all times;

(B) Heed all posted signs and warnings;

(C) Maintain a proper outlook to avoid other roller skaters and objects;

(D) Accept the responsibility for knowing the range of his own ability to negotiate the intended direction of travel while on roller skates and to skate within the limits of that ability;

(E) Refrain from acting in a manner that may cause or contribute to the injury of himself or any other person.
VERY few skaters do this at any of the rinks I've ever been to (granted, that is only 4 rinks in my life, and 2 of them I only went to one time each, but still)....95 - 98% of the crowds are seriously lacking on A, C and D...with a bit of E mixed in now and then. Can't "prove" B, but, I'm sure there are those who don't even bother reading the signs...

Forget suing the rink, just sue the idiot who trips ya because he/she isn't watching what they're doing! Doesn't cost the rink a dime so the rink stays open, and you get money so you can skate more often.
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Old May 3rd, 2009, 03:30 AM   #18
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Here in N.E. N.C., floorguarding in the rinks hasn't been done since 1982 or thereabouts. I do not know how it is elsewhere, but the children and teens of certain other nationalities of origin have a total disregard for common-sense and safety that their American counterparts do not seem to have. The difference between the Americans and the others is as black from white, with the others continually skating in the wrong direction or across heavy traffic, forcing other skaters to brake and edge sharply to avoid a collision. They also cut across the center of the floor at warp 5 (how they accomplish this in those cheap plastic rentals is still a mystery to me). For some time, I had been doing some vigilante floorguarding in an attempt to clean the mess up, but a busy Tuesday night session would easily overwhelm two floorguards, and put a third to task. I became very weary of disrupting my jamskating routines to go after the idiots, and have since then resorted to simply refusing to decelerate or change course to avoid hitting them - I've scored a couple of good hits since implementation of that policy. When one of the brats bumps me in traffic, I give him a stern look and, raising a finger, say "That's one time.... The next time you do that, you're gonna find yourself in Dr. Marsigli's fracture room with something broken !"..... So far, I have yet to see a repeat offender....
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Old May 4th, 2009, 06:08 AM   #19
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Here in N.E. N.C., floorguarding in the rinks hasn't been done since 1982 or thereabouts. I do not know how it is elsewhere, but the children and teens of certain other nationalities of origin have a total disregard for common-sense and safety that their American counterparts do not seem to have. The difference between the Americans and the others is as black from white, with the others continually skating in the wrong direction or across heavy traffic, forcing other skaters to brake and edge sharply to avoid a collision. They also cut across the center of the floor at warp 5 (how they accomplish this in those cheap plastic rentals is still a mystery to me). For some time, I had been doing some vigilante floorguarding in an attempt to clean the mess up, but a busy Tuesday night session would easily overwhelm two floorguards, and put a third to task. I became very weary of disrupting my jamskating routines to go after the idiots, and have since then resorted to simply refusing to decelerate or change course to avoid hitting them - I've scored a couple of good hits since implementation of that policy. When one of the brats bumps me in traffic, I give him a stern look and, raising a finger, say "That's one time.... The next time you do that, you're gonna find yourself in Dr. Marsigli's fracture room with something broken !"..... So far, I have yet to see a repeat offender....

I'm very curious about what you mean by "certain other nationalities of origin."
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Old May 4th, 2009, 02:59 PM   #20
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I'm very curious about what you mean by "certain other nationalities of origin."
Uhhh.... Please disregard that last posting, I was distraught from a recent session in which I was unable to safely work on development or maintain a jamskating routine due to the aforementioned issue. Let's just say that here in my area there are persistent issues with floor traffic in rinks which are inexplicable by any politically correct means, and I had no business attempting to do so. If someday, you or others are visiting this area and happen to skate one such session in one of these rinks, you will see firsthand what is actually happening there with no need for anyone to attempt to describe it to you without offense to anyone.
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