S k a t e L o g     F o r u m
Inline Skating and Quad Roller Skating
Forum Hosts: Jessica Wright | Kathie Fry

FOLLOW US: Our Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Email    


Home - Forum Index - Africa Skating - Asia Skating - Europe Skating - Oceania Skating - Pan America Skating - Roller_Rinks - Friend the SkateLog Forum in Facebook - SkateLog Forum on Facebook

Forum Administrators: Jessica Wright and Kathie Fry | Email Us
Access code for buying and selling subforums: "skates"
How To Get a User Account and Posting Privileges in the SkateLog Forum
Use Google to Search the SkateLog Forum

Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Quad Roller Skating Forum > Outdoor Quads
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Outdoor Quads Discussions about outdoor quad skates and any discussion relatd to skating on quad roller skatse outdoors.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old December 2nd, 2013, 09:48 AM   #1
hdmx539
Senior Member
 
hdmx539's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 192
Question Outdoor skating

What is it with outdoor skating that makes it such a challenge? Other than the grade inclines and declines - even trail skating is scary.

I'm on radar pures when I go outside. I have a multi-use bike trail near my house that has very gentle slopes and for some of you better outdoor skaters, you would probably consider it flat. It's quite smooth, rarely has any debris ... nicely maintained.

But sometimes merely standing up in my skates after having put them on is just so scary.

What makes skating outdoors so much more different than on a rink? Why do my Radar Pures feel so much faster and slippery outdoors than my zombie mid 92Aa on a wooden rink floor? It's also so much more difficult to propel myself. I don't remember outdoor skating being so dang challenging when I was a kid.

HDMx539
hdmx539 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2013, 10:24 AM   #2
Quadtastic
Quads live!!!
 
Quadtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,041
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmx539 View Post
What is it with outdoor skating that makes it such a challenge? Other than the grade inclines and declines - even trail skating is scary.

I'm on radar pures when I go outside. I have a multi-use bike trail near my house that has very gentle slopes and for some of you better outdoor skaters, you would probably consider it flat. It's quite smooth, rarely has any debris ... nicely maintained.

But sometimes merely standing up in my skates after having put them on is just so scary.

What makes skating outdoors so much more different than on a rink? Why do my Radar Pures feel so much faster and slippery outdoors than my zombie mid 92Aa on a wooden rink floor? It's also so much more difficult to propel myself. I don't remember outdoor skating being so dang challenging when I was a kid.

HDMx539
Well I don't know where to start. On inline speed skates it's a very different technique. A road surface should always be faster with more roll. I'm not really much of an outdoor skater on quads. Someone should be able to tell you a lot more. I know mostly inline technique
__________________
[Umbro footy boots] [Bont Vapor 2012]
[Boen Special 170] [EO 110 100 Hi-lo]
[Cruiciani 6 spoke] [Matter G13/Matter Image/MPC Road War Turbo]
Quadtastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 2nd, 2013, 11:36 AM   #3
cass38a
Senior Member
 
cass38a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
Posts: 3,653
Default

Outdoors is fast with a much worse outcome if it comes unstuck.

Once you have had a decent outdoor stack an indoor fall is almost fun.

In saying that skating outdoors is way more fun and improves your fitness and overall skating skills much faster than rink skating alone.
cass38a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3rd, 2013, 03:51 AM   #4
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cass38a View Post
Outdoors is fast with a much worse outcome if it comes unstuck.

Once you have had a decent outdoor stack an indoor fall is almost fun.

In saying that skating outdoors is way more fun and improves your fitness and overall skating skills much faster than rink skating alone.
100% agree!

Skating indoors requires no balance check due to terrain changes. To compensate for fore/aft disruptions that outdoor conditions often cause you can increase stability by putting your feet 1/2 step apart. The ball of one foot should be at or behind the heel of the other. They should never be side by side.
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3rd, 2013, 05:02 AM   #5
Quadtastic
Quads live!!!
 
Quadtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,041
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cass38a View Post
Outdoors is fast with a much worse outcome if it comes unstuck.

Once you have had a decent outdoor stack an indoor fall is almost fun.

In saying that skating outdoors is way more fun and improves your fitness and overall skating skills much faster than rink skating alone.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
100% agree!
Both of you are right
__________________
[Umbro footy boots] [Bont Vapor 2012]
[Boen Special 170] [EO 110 100 Hi-lo]
[Cruiciani 6 spoke] [Matter G13/Matter Image/MPC Road War Turbo]
Quadtastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3rd, 2013, 02:40 PM   #6
Armadillo
Senior Member
 
Armadillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Near the Lake
Posts: 6,537
Default

As far as the difficulty maintaining speed on outdoor asphalt trails, there are many factors that steal speed:

1) Wheels too firm or too soft for the amount of rolling surface roughness. and/or not the best rebound urethane formulas.
2) Lower seasonal temperatures reducing wheel performance.
3) Skating with too high a percent of weight on front axles (~40% best)
4) Not having an outdoor optimized plate mount -- not far enough forward tends to cause too great a % of skaters weight to be carried on front wheels/axle.
5) Skating wheels that are too wide and have protruding urethane lips (30-38mm width optimum)
6)
7) Wheels too small for the amount of rolling surface roughness.
8) Skates with too much stiffness in wheels, plates and soles can waste more energy, as feet are lifted from roughness vibrations, than springer setups.

In general, the % of your rolling momentum lost per second is typically at least three times higher outdoors, even on a windless day.

This means you have to work harder to maintain speed and pretty much keep it up continuously (excluding downhill & strong tailwind times). Stop pushing even briefly and you shed speed quickly, especially on rougher asphalt & concrete.

In addition, as the surface gets rougher, the wheels drop & squish deeper into it, causing the initial contact point with wheel to have more of a of a rearward impact angle. If their rebound rating is hot high, a lot more energy can be lost, than with a high rebound formula wheel.
Note in PIC below how smaller wheel has to "climb" more than big wheel to get past surface roughness, which steals more horizontal momentum.



My outdoor optimized avatar PIC skates address most of these issues, primarily with their large 76mm high performance wheels, and the very far forward front axle location. If you are primarily trail skating on typical indoor skate setups outdoors (just swapping to softer wheels), compared to a fully optimized for outdoors build, you would be amazed by how much better speed performance is possible with the better outdoor optimized setups. Derby skaters often do not like the idea of having heir skate setups differing this much from indoor to outdoor though.

-Armadillo
__________________
Rollin' on AIR

Last edited by Armadillo; December 6th, 2013 at 06:57 AM.
Armadillo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 3rd, 2013, 04:44 PM   #7
JorisKB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 232
Default

Depends what you really means by outdoor.

Road or streets, it's very different.

In France, we don't have rinks. So skating is always outdoor skating. Even most of derby leagues are training outside because it's very hard to get access to a gym for newly created organisations.

On this page :
http://rollerquad.net/liste-de-montage-custom/
most of the setups are urban free ride setups.

You need to be 100% alert to skate in the streets, and unlike in derby, you have to avoid collisions at all cost. You ride with weight on the front to get better agility, momentum, ability to stop with powerslides and to jump. But you have to be very aware of the floor to put your weight on the back at the least obstacle spotted. Balance is very important, but in a different way than in derby, as you don't get push away.

We use soft wheels outside, typically 78A or 80A. Up to 84A sometimes. If you want to go fast, go for 70 or 76mm. If you want agility, go for 62mm.
I go for 58 to 65mm for urban, but for 76mm for speed.
JorisKB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2013, 09:38 AM   #8
Quadtastic
Quads live!!!
 
Quadtastic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 1,041
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JorisKB View Post
We use soft wheels outside, typically 78A or 80A. Up to 84A sometimes. If you want to go fast, go for 70 or 76mm. If you want agility, go for 62mm. I go for 58 to 65mm for urban, but for 76mm for speed.
76mm is pretty big, I've never tried a set
__________________
[Umbro footy boots] [Bont Vapor 2012]
[Boen Special 170] [EO 110 100 Hi-lo]
[Cruiciani 6 spoke] [Matter G13/Matter Image/MPC Road War Turbo]
Quadtastic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2013, 03:35 PM   #9
Fancy-Kerrigan
Senior Member
 
Fancy-Kerrigan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Madison, FL
Posts: 758
Default

I skated (neighborhood streets) outside from the age of 2 till I was a teenager and actually got to go to a rink.
So strapping on my outdoor skates with my Pures is like going home. I think you are on to something though.....just that fact that outside is not super flat like a rink would add a more challenging element.
Personally, I enjoy the resistance that paved roads give me. I enjoy jumping over curbs and speed bumps. I enjoy the feeling of getting a better workout in 60 minutes of outdoor skating than I do with a 2 or 3 hour session skate.
I do have to remember to not wear the shiny lipgloss that bugs get stuck to.
Overall, I think that in time you will find it a fun a rewarding way to have fun and get exercise. Keep at it, it will feel more natural and less scary after a while. And wear your gear and try to roll if you hit the ground, I find you get less road rash that way
Fancy-Kerrigan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 4th, 2013, 04:33 PM   #10
hdmx539
Senior Member
 
hdmx539's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 192
Default

Thanks for the posts, folks!

Yeah, being outside can feel so fast, faster than what I can be used to. Right now I use Radar Pures. Mostly I just want stability.

I'm too scared to skate in the street, as has been mentioned, you need more awareness due to cars - I don't feel confident and strong enough that I can easily and quickly stop myself. I do know that skating in the street is far more even than skating on a sidewalk. Right now I stick to the multi-use trails because they're far far smoother than the street and I feel safer.

Trust me, I completely agree with you guys that one definitely does get a better work out skating outdoors than at the rink. Sometimes, tho', I just want the roll so I go to a skating rink. hehe

I want to do more outdoor skating, it's just that it's either too hot, too cold, or I just don't get to when the weather is nice.

I just wonder why it seems more scary. One thing is for certain, I wear padded shorts AND a tailbone protector!
hdmx539 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 5th, 2013, 06:04 AM   #11
JorisKB
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Paris, France
Posts: 232
Default

I wear full equipment on a derby track, including crash pad, because you are supposed to fall, better than getting out of the track. But on the street, I can't bear any protective gear, and there is always a way to avoid an obstacle.

Urban skaters have a hard day going to roller-derby, because of these : putting protective gears on, falling voluntarily, not avoiding people, using stoppers. I guess going the other way might actually be harder...
JorisKB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old December 15th, 2013, 05:43 PM   #12
Armadillo
Senior Member
 
Armadillo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, Near the Lake
Posts: 6,537
Default

The key to feeling safe while skating outdoors is learning to keep your weight more on the rear wheels and having the front axles located well forward of the balls of the feet.

This kind of set up minimizes the amount of front to rear tipping that you experience as your skates encounter the many kinds of outdoor rolling surface imperfections and debris.

Keep in mind that the more of your weight that the front wheels must carry, the more they tend to stick on surface imperfections and debris.

When your front wheels stick, it triggers a positive feedback situation that tends to pitch you forward and to make them stick more.

When your rear wheels hit stuff that makes them stick, it is a negative feedback situation, and the pitching forward effect lifts your weight off of them, allowing them to more easily transition past the surface imperfection.

This is why I say it is so important for skating outdoors to have skates that are specifically optimized for the reality of all the totally harsher rolling surface conditions that skating outdoors will hit you with.

Good skaters can still do fine rolling indoor setups outside by using their balance skills to keep their weight more on the rear axle, but even they can still benefit from an outdoor optimized skate build.

-Armadillo
__________________
Rollin' on AIR
Armadillo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 6th, 2014, 03:20 AM   #13
CoastalChick
Not a fishnets gal
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 32
Default

For the past three years I have worn my derby/rink skates (Bonts on short-forward da45) to skate outdoors, and I recently got a Bont Ignite package with a much longer wheelbase for outdoors...man, what a difference.

It's not that I had any trouble skating outdoors before, it's just that it's noticeably easier now. Super worthwhile purchase (and bless Nathan's heart for being patient with me).

Interestingly, I dislike the new skates for rink skating. LOL. But they sure are nice for outdoors.
CoastalChick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2014, 11:50 AM   #14
wawa
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Montpellier, France
Posts: 39
Default

Before Roller Derby there was no question about skating indoor or outdoor. We (in France), had no access to indoor places, and never wanted to skate indoor.

Now people are skating indoor, and are afraid of skating outdoor. what a shame !

Outdoor skating (in our way of doing) means danger, freedom, speed and excellent control of our skates. That makes us good polyvalent skaters. That's what I try to explain to the derby people, but it's not easy as the cannot understand why we skate without pad.

We skate in the street, so we don't use wheels with a big core and few urethane. We'd rather skate with small (59 to 65) wheels like Hyper Rollo or Kryptonics CR or biggest wheels like Classic K. We need rebound and confort.

I personnaly skate with 70mm kryptonics classic K and like it a lot. There's so much urethane that it last very long ! Another great choice (but hard to find) is Sure Grip Motion 65mm.
wawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2014, 05:58 AM   #15
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,606
Default

A nice thick urethane wheel is great for outdoors. Highest rebound formulas, around 80-85a are prime. Most "derby hybrid" marketed wheels work great for outdoor quad skating, even the wide ones. Narrow wheels won't get caught as easily in cracks though like a slim/narrow version. Example Atom poisons. I have a 2 sets of poison wides we commonly use outdoors, very good for most asphalt surfaces. My daughter found out how much a wide wheel likes sidewalk cracks . I warned her about skating with her feet side by side.


A few others here would argue how rebound steals energy though. Having little to no rebound by using a hard wheel only works well if you have rink-like asphalt conditions. Which is almoat impossible unless you always have freshly paved roads.

I love skaing outdoors, just no one I skate with can keep up for any length of time :/ . It is funny though, you can take a good sesion skater who never skates outdoors, and then.watch their skills nd confidence just plummel. That varying resistance as road conditions greatly impact a slow roll makes most skaters who are new to outdoors uneasy.

Man Id love some super thick urethane RBT's. About 2- 2.5 times they're current thickness.
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2014, 08:13 PM   #16
wawa
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Montpellier, France
Posts: 39
Default

I tried to skate with Radar Ghost (80A) outdoor and it was a nightmare.
it was way to hard, no enough rebound for me.

I'd rather use oldschool outdoor wheels like Hyper Rollo 65mm/78A or Kryptonics CR62mm for example
wawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2014, 11:03 PM   #17
inkh0rn
Senior Member
 
inkh0rn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Oop North, UK
Posts: 100
Default

If skating on the roads where I live, 65mm 78a Airwaves wheels roll best. I have Roll Line Heliums 64mm 84A that I use on a local car park, or for training at a sports arena cycle track.

I tried the Heliums on the road...they were tooth-rattling at speed and actually felt slower than the Airwaves.

Just ordered some 76mm 83a longboard wheels, intended for outdoor distance at the cycle track - I'll have to see how they are on the roads...maybe the larger wheels will cope with the bad UK roads a bit better .

I've skated 80-100m 85a inline wheels on local roads, though, and that was pretty harsh...
__________________
Bont Hybrids, SG Avengers, Qube 8-balls, Roll Line Olympics 92A.
SG Rebel Avengers, SIMS Pythons 72mm, Heliums.
inkh0rn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 12th, 2014, 11:25 PM   #18
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,606
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wawa View Post
I tried to skate with Radar Ghost (80A) outdoor and it was a nightmare.
it was way to hard, no enough rebound for me.

I'd rather use oldschool outdoor wheels like Hyper Rollo 65mm/78A or Kryptonics CR62mm for example
Sounds like your roads are pretty rough bro. Those ghosts look similar to poisons. Mine just barely have the urethane to a smooth(bald/slick) look. I'd bet they wouldn't last a long time before the urethane got too thin to be comfortable. Those rollo's got some thickness there. Nice small diameter hub and lots of thane. Good looking outdoor quad wheel.

I try to avoid rougher roads myself and stick to the ones which get repaved the most. Our roads tend to get pot holes more than roughed up.

EDIT

@inkh0rn

Yea if theres not enough dampening in the wheels you actually get slowed down by not havig enouh urethane/rebound. Plastics dont rebound. So its better to have a nice shock absorber to roll on rather than make your leg muscles take the beating.
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2014, 07:06 PM   #19
wawa
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Montpellier, France
Posts: 39
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
Sounds like your roads are pretty rough bro.
parisian streets
yes you're absolutly right Mort. This is the kind of ground I like to ride : http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x3y...ollerfr-1_news and I can't even imagine riding it with hybrid derby wheels. Well I can't imagine derby wheels at all ^^
wawa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old January 13th, 2014, 10:24 PM   #20
gregor.b
Back from the dead
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: brisbane qld australia
Posts: 174
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmx539 View Post
What is it with outdoor skating that makes it such a challenge? Other than the grade inclines and declines - even trail skating is scary.

I'm on radar pures when I go outside. I have a multi-use bike trail near my house that has very gentle slopes and for some of you better outdoor skaters, you would probably consider it flat. It's quite smooth, rarely has any debris ... nicely maintained.

But sometimes merely standing up in my skates after having put them on is just so scary.

What makes skating outdoors so much more different than on a rink? Why do my Radar Pures feel so much faster and slippery outdoors than my zombie mid 92Aa on a wooden rink floor? It's also so much more difficult to propel myself. I don't remember outdoor skating being so dang challenging when I was a kid.

HDMx539
Generally, for an outdoor setup you will run much softer wheels, but more importantly, have the plates set up a little further forward. Turning is a little less important and and it is (in my opinion) a little better to have less pressure on the front wheels to allow for bumps etc.
gregor.b is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:07 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.