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Beginning Skaters Forum This is the place for beginning skaters to ask questions and share their stories. We would love to hear about your experiences learning to skate. No question is too dumb!

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Old August 23rd, 2010, 04:58 PM   #21
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Well, I did notice one cool thing, sorta cool.

If you read it DA45, it's geometrically wrong. It's not 45 degrees, anywhere, unless the vector is notated (or in this case, assumed), and as Armadillo says, actually wrong as to what the actual angle is, which is sort of self-defeating imo.

I always assumed DA-45 was a dash and probably is,

BUT, if it's read as DA(minus)45, you satisfy math notation and violate English. You can't subtract apples from oranges.

BUT (x2) if you add a slash, it's correct (assuming it is actually minus 45 degrees).

DA/-45 would be proper notation though.

Really though....
It doesn't make a huge difference until you start calculating the offsetting angles in the same equation. One kingpin @ 45 degrees would be 315 for example and the other would be 225 if measured from the same axis. Since they are / \
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 05:11 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
Well, I did notice one cool thing, sorta cool.

If you read it DA45, it's geometrically wrong. It's not 45 degrees, anywhere, unless the vector is notated (or in this case, assumed), and as Armadillo says, actually wrong as to what the actual angle is, which is sort of self-defeating imo.

I always assumed DA-45 was a dash and probably is,

BUT, if it's read as DA(minus)45, you satisfy math notation and violate English. You can't subtract apples from oranges.

BUT (x2) if you add a slash, it's correct (assuming it is actually minus 45 degrees).

DA/-45 would be proper notation though.

Really though....
It doesn't make a huge difference until you start calculating the offsetting angles in the same equation. One kingpin @ 45 degrees would be 315 for example and the other would be 225 if measured from the same axis. Since they are / \
what he said....LOL Besides....it's all in the cushions and wheels anyway.......
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 05:11 PM   #23
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Action angle or pivot angle, they are not irrelevant. If you move(shimming the cushions) the truck closer to the plate, it slows response, further away from the plate quickens response, this changes the action/pivot angle.
Its kinda funny how we are all here discussing something the skate companies cloud up on purpose...lol
I said irrelevant only to the question of "what are we measuring" and action angle in Dillo's first response was irrelevant. Didn't answer the first question, to get to the second or make it far enough to discuss action angle. Until we answer what, from where and how much, we can't get a secondary measurement like action angle. I don't think it's irrelevant, just didn't answer the question asked.

Action is not a simple calculation of degree. Action is the result of positive or negative weight or force + direction of +/- weight or force (where your plate is mounted on your foot) + resistance (cushions + kingpin tightness) / pivot angle + deviation. It's not a line to any specific measure. I'd be leery of 33 degrees calcuation of a 350 pound skater on soft cushions. I think it'd be a little off.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 05:17 PM   #24
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Heavy theory I wouldn't learn anything.....I do like it when I see fresh new ideas to ponder, when I'm at work daydreaming. So I can try TO FORGET ABOUT THE HEAT I must work in.....LOL
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 05:39 PM   #25
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Heavy theory I wouldn't learn anything.....I do like it when I see fresh new ideas to ponder, when I'm at work daydreaming. So I can try TO FORGET ABOUT THE HEAT I must work in.....LOL
Nothing like a conversation about degrees to forget about other degrees!
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 10:43 PM   #26
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Default Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz!

Do you guys lay awake at night with this stuff going through your head.

Just go skate will ya!!!!

Sheesh!
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 11:14 PM   #27
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No, that's what I daydream about at work surrounded by engineers who are only interesting if there is math involved. There's a difference.
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 11:27 PM   #28
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No, that's what I daydream about at work surrounded by engineers who are only interesting if there is math involved. There's a difference.
ROFLMAO.... love the avatar note
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Old August 23rd, 2010, 11:33 PM   #29
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No, that's what I daydream about at work surrounded by engineers who are only interesting if there is math involved. There's a difference.
There are only a few things that keep me awake and skates ain't one of them...but female anatomy does......
If I weren't thinking about skates it would be something more expensive to work on like my Manta Mirage transmission, suspension 500hp bigblock motor..etc. Or how much fun it is causing wrecks while driving it down the freeway......or about having to refuse the hot chicks a ride in it because of the wife......You know things like that......
Sidewinder has a point though, work is boring, so to forget the boredom change subjects at work. It makes the day go by faster. We have something in common too. Engineers even with degrees(a good many of them too), don't know which end of the wrench to use(it's a known fact). So we have the burden of educating them....LOL.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 12:28 AM   #30
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Engineers even with degrees(a good many of them too), don't know which end of the wrench to use(it's a known fact). So we have the burden of educating them....LOL.
Engineers and programmers. Same basic life form. They don't know how to operate anything they didn't design themselves.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 12:40 AM   #31
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Engineers and programmers. Same basic life form. They don't know how to operate anything they didn't design themselves.
Even that is questionable........
Ya'll I gotta get some sleep. 3 AM comes early. Have a nice evening.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 01:02 AM   #32
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Have a good one. 3AM is very early indeed.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 03:41 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by Sidewinder View Post
Well, I did notice one cool thing, sorta cool.

If you read it DA45, it's geometrically wrong. It's not 45 degrees, anywhere, unless the vector is notated (or in this case, assumed), and as Armadillo says, actually wrong as to what the actual angle is, which is sort of self-defeating imo.

I always assumed DA-45 was a dash and probably is,

BUT, if it's read as DA(minus)45, you satisfy math notation and violate English. You can't subtract apples from oranges.

BUT (x2) if you add a slash, it's correct (assuming it is actually minus 45 degrees).

DA/-45 would be proper notation though.

Really though....
It doesn't make a huge difference until you start calculating the offsetting angles in the same equation. One kingpin @ 45 degrees would be 315 for example and the other would be 225 if measured from the same axis. Since they are / \
Please don't introduce no stinking negative angles here, or for that matter any angles more than 90 degrees either --- please!

They may exist, but I am just going to reverse my plate or turn it upside down to flip them all back to 90 degrees or less.

BTW, the Skins kingpins are dead on 30 degrees away from vertical.
The DA-45 trucks mounted on Skins plates have a truck axis of rotation that is within one degree of 49 degrees away from vertical. So, I am just going to keep assuming that this plate's 45 ID number is the closest to relating ONLY to the action axis angle and no other plate feature.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it --- at least until the actual guy who named them tells me a better one.



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Last edited by Armadillo; August 24th, 2010 at 04:22 AM. Reason: Corrected the measured action axis angle
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Old August 24th, 2010, 01:06 PM   #34
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You lose me at truck axis of rotation. Under what load? I balance on my front axle versus both axles equally distrubuting my weight, the angle and degree of rotation changes. Loosen your trucks way loose and measure rotation. Then tighten them as far as you can get and measure. Neither measurement would match. Change your cushions, you get a different angle under load. That's just a basic example before we get into the actual cushion compression curves.

Welcome to hyperbolic geometry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_geometry

That axis you speak of is based on, you guessed it, a triangle (cause of the pivot). But it's not an ordinary triangle.

It has to be translated with differential math. That is thanks to this dude. Who is pretty cool cause we measure the strength of magnets in "gauss" and basically developed the geometry to explain the shape and strength of magnetic fields. Talk about bad ass. You can't explain something to someone, invent the math behind it to explain it. That's pretty awesome.

On the actual topic though,

Nice to know the skins are +/- 30 from vertical though. Looks like 30 degrees to me. Wonder if the rest of the stuff is similar. Invaders, Royal's, etc.
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Old August 24th, 2010, 11:17 PM   #35
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You lose me at truck axis of rotation. Under what load? I balance on my front axle versus both axles equally distrubuting my weight, the angle and degree of rotation changes. Loosen your trucks way loose and measure rotation. Then tighten them as far as you can get and measure. Neither measurement would match. Change your cushions, you get a different angle under load. That's just a basic example before we get into the actual cushion compression curves.

Welcome to hyperbolic geometry. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperbolic_geometry

That axis you speak of is based on, you guessed it, a triangle (cause of the pivot). But it's not an ordinary triangle.

It has to be translated with differential math. That is thanks to this dude. Who is pretty cool cause we measure the strength of magnets in "gauss" and basically developed the geometry to explain the shape and strength of magnetic fields. Talk about bad ass. You can't explain something to someone, invent the math behind it to explain it. That's pretty awesome.

On the actual topic though,

Nice to know the skins are +/- 30 from vertical though. Looks like 30 degrees to me. Wonder if the rest of the stuff is similar. Invaders, Royal's, etc.
D/A (45)SG trucks fit most of them, so I would say so....but I haven't measured it so don't take my word for it.I rough sketched a fixture to measure the changes under loads. Different cushions also alternating between hard uppers/soft lowers and vice versa. I thought it would be cool to measure plate angles with 200lbs of weight at various degrees and measure the turn radius for results. If the weight is changed, so is the turn radius and with different cushions as you stated, compression curves change and move around a bit. Depending on the combination, you could slow down or speed up the tightening of the turn radius per degree of plate angle.
I only need another project.....like another hole in my head...LOL
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Old August 24th, 2010, 11:48 PM   #36
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I only need another project.....like another hole in my head...LOL
I've been trying to get my Wii Fit to tell me weight changes and measure the angles. LOL.

So far I've burned 22 calories trying it!
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Old August 24th, 2010, 11:50 PM   #37
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I've been trying to get my Wii Fit to tell me weight changes and measure the angles. LOL.

So far I've burned 22 calories trying it!
I'll have to find the sketch and scan it for you. Its around here somewhere.....
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Old August 25th, 2010, 12:19 AM   #38
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I've now invented hover skates. There's no trucks or wheels. Just a big floor with magnets under it and skates with opposing pole magnets where the wheels used to be.

Patent #98165836698
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Old August 25th, 2010, 12:35 AM   #39
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Default I'm assuming these

are for going in straight lines.........no friction for traction whatsoever....
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Old August 25th, 2010, 12:43 AM   #40
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...skates with opposing pole magnets where the wheels used to be.

Patent #98165836698

glue mounted?
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