beginner ordered speed-skating inline skates, could use advice

[Armadillo]

You can try adding a thin insole too. A lot of fit & blistering issues can be resolved by this simple action.

-Armadillo

[chuckboucher]

Originally Posted by Armadillo

You can try adding a thin insole too. A lot of fit & blistering issues can be resolved by this simple action.

Or by using a booty, such as an ezeefit.

In my speed skates, I use:
layer 1: ezeefit bootie
layer 2: coolmax cycling socks

When I skate indoor short track, I also put a thin neoprene coaster (http://shop.nhl.com/catalog/product/...ne_Coaster_Set) to make sure that my heels are pressed down into the boot to avoid heel lift.

[Trixton]

Originally Posted by chuckboucher

Or by using a booty, such as an ezeefit.

In my speed skates, I use:
layer 1: ezeefit bootie
layer 2: coolmax cycling socks

When I skate indoor short track, I also put a thin neoprene coaster (http://shop.nhl.com/catalog/product/...ne_Coaster_Set) to make sure that my heels are pressed down into the boot to avoid heel lift.

Oh yeah, good point on the booty. My first Seba inline was a bit too big, so I ordered one of these Seba Comfot Socks high cut (they have a low cut as well) and with the addition of a thin sock fits much much tighter than wearing a thick sock and thin sock. Not sure if they would work with other non-Seba skates though...

[chuckboucher]

Ezeefit has both ankle booties in ultrathin, 2mm, and 3mm thicknesses:
http://www.ezeefitsports.com/category-s/1827.htm


And full foot booties in ultrathin thickness:
http://www.ezeefitsports.com/product-p/040.htm

[Asteropaeus]

I may have a big feet & slender ankle combination.

If so, getting those inside boots may be smart? Do I need to fit then in person?

[Asteropaeus]

I bought that Ezeefit 2mm ankleboot. I feel it helps a lot. I guess I have slender ankles.

I had an inconvenient blister. Every morning when I put on my shoes, the shear of the heel against the shoe would pull of the crust. That ankleboot helps with that too.

I did some km with the ankle boot and it wasn't that bad for my tender spots. I felt that my ankle also buckled less. The buckling causes the rotation, which causes the shear at the points where the blisters developed.

I can skate at 12 to 14 km/h now with some comfort. On a nice bike path there are no vibrations. Also, I don't get that fatigued now that I can push off one leg at a time. The first time, my ankles and even some other muscles got fatigued quickly.
I can go steady and get some balance problems I can recover from once in a while. Especially a sudden gush of wind at a point where I was re-balancing a bit almost caused me to tumble over.

Going straight, I want to try to focus on landing/repositioning my skates properly. I probably want to generate as little sound as possible? Have to study the good technique and figure out how I feel/see/hear how close I am to that good technique.
Also, doing bigger pushes.

My top speed is 18.4 km/h. It feels quite fast, like in that it is not safe to go much faster, but no where near where I get a good workout from it. So this girl I know, at age 16 or something, she did 50 km with an average of 31 km/h. Or 31 seconds for a 300m. Hard to imagine. Anyway, not that it matters. She doesn't seem interested anyway. But I'll continue regardless.



But when I am standing still, I am obviously very clumsy. I can't break properly. Acceleration while standing still and I am obviously a complete beginner. Breaking, changing direction, that's all very difficult. I can't even imagine breaking properly by sliding sideways yet or doing foot crossovers in taking a tight turn quickly like proper ice speed skaters do.

[Asteropaeus]

Last session I lost my rear wheel on my right skate. As it was dark, I couldn't find it. Pretty sure I can recover it tomorrow morning.


Well, I am at a stage where my top speed is 20 km/h, where my comfortable pace is similar to my running intense pace. I try to focus on placing down my left skate and on how much to push/slide sideways. It seems I can't place my left skate with enough finesse. It slams into the ground a bit too much.


I don't really feel like I am learning how to break or turn. I only fell once period, so I'd like to keep it that way. Did some tricky recoveries the last week. In a way, I feel like I need to risk falling to improve. Is that really so?

So last session I tried to see how much sideways I dared to move, trying to go into a slide. So I rode into the grass pretty hard. I must have lost the wheel there. But I don't see how it could have come off so easily. It seems it needs to be screwed off.


[edit]

Recovered the wheel & bolt and reassembled it.

[Trixton]

Originally Posted by Asteropaeus

I don't really feel like I am learning how to break or turn. I only fell once period, so I'd like to keep it that way. Did some tricky recoveries the last week. In a way, I feel like I need to risk falling to improve. Is that really so?

Yes, the chance of falling generally increases when learning new skills, especially for skills that require abrupt changes in velocity, stopping, spinning, etc... I would recommend you get some pads if you don't already have some and wear as many of them as you have and drill it for a few days before working on speed again. Stopping is a dangerous skill to skip. If you're drilling hard enough, you will almost certainly fall. Learn how to crumple or roll (on your pads if possible) in order to spread the impact forces over multiple body parts. Road rash is a lot nicer than broken bones. There are plenty of tutorials on all the different stops out there (t-stop, plows, spin stops, all the slide stops, hockey, power slide, etc). You can also try an indoor rink if you want a safer environment to improve your skills. If you do opt for the rink, don't forget to spend some time transferring your skills and muscle memory to the outdoor surfaces as the technique and timing can vary drastically.

[MANY_SkatingDave]

Hi,

I am taking a break and YOU look interesting for learning.

I will update this note throughout the day as I do my other stuff. Thanks for the Fun in your posts.

<I had an inconvenient blister. Every morning when I put on my shoes, the shear of the heel against the shoe would pull of the crust. That ankleboot helps with that too.>

Take care of those things fast. Use a Podiatry Pad (a bit thicker than moleskin) and some special tape to protect that area. I could write more and more about this, yet take care of it quickly. No blister or a beneficial callus

<Last session I lost my rear wheel on my right skate. As it was dark, I couldn't find it. Pretty sure I can recover it tomorrow morning.>

Before you get started skating, and during skating you have to check your wheels and how well they are held. Wheels getting loose is variable and sometimes it is a, looser than should be cap nut or other. No good reason I know other in the long run than a wear out from usage.

InLiners I find lose their stuff quicker than quad skaters. Fell on a piece a few weeks ago, and it hurt bad for days, because the young man was doing fancy stuff not normally done on InLines. I like him, and he is good.


Back later to update after reading.
Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave

Edit-01: Check Out SheSk8 < Hopefully I got her SLF address correct. She is a certified InLiner and has some VERY very good notes. We disagree on something yet can't remember right now what. She and her husband from Idaho?? skate.

[WJCIV]

Don't worry about hockey stops. Those are the wrong skates and wheels for that. Plus, it would wear down the wheels quickly, which means you ruin the profile and have to replace them sooner. I know plenty of speed skaters who can't do a hockey stop unless you put them on a really slick floor.

T-stops are simple and great for certain situations, but they also wear down your wheels. I would spend more time learning how to use lemons (feet wide, then narrow), and shift the push to the second half while you are bringing them together to stop. It's similar to a plow stop without dragging the wheels. Spin stops are good once you get down to a manageable speed. Stepping stops are very useful. Basically turn your feet sideways and walk. Simply rolling while you gradually lose speed is probably the best option in most cases, but it will not work in emergencies.

As far as losing the wheel, do you have anyone to show you how tightly the axle should be turned? If not you may look into a torque wrench. Overtightening ruins the axle and frame, but undertightening risks something coming loose.

[Asteropaeus]

So I did another 6 km session. This session, I didn't even got into critical recovery from falling. It seems that now when I am out of balance, I can recover before it becomes critical.

I have a big callus on my heel now. Had 3 blisters on top of each other and each day my normal shoe would kind of rub the crust off. But it healed and is undamagable.
On the side of my ankle, I suspect the skin is too thin for callusing, but this session the skin didn't damage. I suspect that now that my balance has improved, my ankle is straighter and there is less of an issue of the upper boot rubbing.

So I am still a bit confused about what breaking technique is proper for a speed skater and I don't see a way how a beginner can try a powerslide break. But I did try spreading out my legs, both wide and one in front of the other. Those positions uses some muscles I am not used to using.

I am able now to make some playful steps and minor changes of directions. But I skate on a straight piece of bike path. So I guess I start with making big circles/corners on an empty square? Not instantly sure where I should go. Right now, I only need to make shallow corners and I can make those by pushing off in the right direction. Not real cornering.

So I guess I have to get some knee pads and take some risks next week.

[TimeZone3]

re: braking. I'm sure I'll get some heat for this opinion, but here goes anyways. Speed skaters skating in a competition on a track generally do not often need to stop quickly. The speed skaters that I know that skate outdoors on roads or trails, ALL wear a heel brake. (There's a fair amount of heel-brake-hate around here, but ignore them; a heel brake is most useful for beginners. Or experienced skaters in emergency situations.) The other unspoken truth is that the low-cut speed boots make most fancy sliding stops very difficult. It's not that they're impossible to do, but they are a long way away for anyone who is just learning to go forwards and turn. Do not trouble yourself with them. Stick to the basics: lemons, t-stops, carving. These will help you manage your speed, but they won't be a fancy quick stop. Carving turns will also help you balance and learn your edges, so it's worth doing anyways. Look up videos for "parallel turns", and try them in each direction, then try string them together back and forth. Although it sounds like you don't have any turning skills at all yet, in which case, A-frame turns are probably better to start with.

And don't be afraid to look for a heel brake for your speed frames, especially if you're trail skating, which it sounds like you are. There are options from Bont and Powerslide that should fit pretty much any single-piece axle speed frame.

Also, pads as others have said, as well. I ONCE skated without my pads and got a nasty scar to show for it. Never again. That sucker took all summer to heal.

TZ

[Trixton]

I only mentioned the sliding stops to point out what is available. If you intend to do primarily speed skating, I agree with the above post, lemons/plows, t-stops, and carving with the addition of a spin stop at low speeds are what you should be after.

To borrow from Bill Stoppard: "Drill it to kill it" and "When in doubt, pad it out"

[Asteropaeus]

I ordered the powerslide tool to tighten the wheels, so that issue should be solved.

In daylight, I noticed that my left ankle doesn't stay straight when I push off on that side. I angle it inward. I even angle my right ankle, I think, a bit. In a sense if feels stronger or something or it prevents any risk from it buckling outward.

I'll try on focusing to keep it as straight as possible.

I have knee-pads now so I can try to find some square or empty parking lot and do some drills on turning and breaking.

[MANY_SkatingDave]

Hi,

Not reading the entire tread so I might make some errors. Yet one more note and I am done for tonight.

Originally Posted by Asteropaeus

o - o I have a big callus on my heel now. Had 3 blisters on top of each other and each day my normal shoe would kind of rub the crust off. But it healed and is undamagable.
On the side of my ankle, I suspect the skin is too thin for callusing, but this session the skin didn't damage.

You have got to take care of this stuff pronto. Feet are your champions, take care of them. Lots of socks out here have been listed that help remove the causes of blisters, and I have written about non beneficial calluses. I suspect your callus on your heel is a bad callus versus the inside of your arch.
Podiatry Foam helps as does a proper Podiatrist. Take your skates when you go.

Originally Posted by Asteropaeus

o - o So I am still a bit confused about what breaking technique is proper for a speed skater and I don't see a way how a beginner can try a powerslide break. But I did try spreading out my legs, both wide and one in front of the other. Those positions uses some muscles I am not used to using. o - o

Yep a power slide is tough for an older beginner. The young kids pick this stuff up faster. The spread leg or Plow Stop is one of many stops you should play with. Not sure if you can do the Spin stop yet, yet give it a try, since it is easier than the hockey stop. Also the parallel skate swizzle as you quickly slide your skates in an S Pattern.

As for brakes, which I never figured how to use, they are OK if you are on smaller wheels and you want to use them as a crutch. For the bigger wheels you won't, at least I have not, seen anyone with a brake even a 10 year old. Again they are OK for some good skaters and it depends on your wheel size.

Yours in Skating, and Good Night... Skating Dave

[Asteropaeus]

As things progressed, I feel it becomes easier to keep my ankles straight. But as I tire, it gets harder. I actually push with my pinky toe downward inside the boot, and it's hurting a tiny bit because of that.
Did some 12 km rides, including going into the wind. I can almost get some aerobic challenge out of it. But then again, my aerobic engine is at it's peak in my life as it is today.
Blisters were not a problem for several rides, then returned, then gone again.


I went out a couple of times to a parking lot to practice cornering and breaking. I tried to make the tightest turn I could and see if that would somehow transition into some powerside type breaking or lunge stop. But it seems it is impossible for me to transition into the point where my wheels are not rolling properly and parallel to the direction of movement, but are at an angle and grinding or sliding.
I tried to push myself to almost falling, but that doesn't seem the way to learn it.

I see people on youtube that just put one of their stake perpendicular to their direction of movement, then the other, and stop. I guess for the first skate, they don't have any weight on it. Then when they do the other one, they stay balanced. I bet when I force myself to do that, I will instantly stop moving and fall forward.

Maybe the trick is to put most weight on the inside leg and lunge outward with the other leg, trying to angle the skate away from being parallel to the direction of movement as much as possible. That's kind of what I am trying, and I can get some grinding of the lunging skate going on, slowing me down more.

I can jump up and off the pavement. But stopping is just quite difficult. Slowing down is one thing, but completely stopping. I just jump into the grass alongside the road if I really need to be stationary.

Anyway, it seems speed skaters don't really break. I watched a few matches where they finish to see how they brake. They don't brake. I even saw one crash into a spectator, not even trying to brake. And that's a person that came second in a big match.

Only speed skater breaking I found online is this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUYc0lmeM9Q
At 0:38 he brakes using quite some unorthodox breaking.

Seems that for high speeds, making small turns for me is probably the way to go. Then go into A steps/plow or something like this.


It's probably quite hard for a 80kg 1m93 beginner to do these fancy brake things on 110mm wheels. And they probably don't even work when you go 25 km/h and suddenly have to stop.

[Trixton]

Originally Posted by Asteropaeus

Did some 12 km rides, including going into the wind. I can almost get some aerobic challenge out of it. But then again, my aerobic engine is at it's peak in my life as it is today.

I had a similar issue going from running to skating where skating wasn't as challenging aerobically. As your skill level improves, you will be able to get more and more out of your workout aerobically. Mixing in some mild grade hills and interval sprints can help if it's still not challenging enough.

Originally Posted by Asteropaeus

Only speed skater breaking I found online is this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUYc0lmeM9Q
At 0:38 he brakes using quite some unorthodox breaking.

Little chip steps at the apex of the carve to kill some speed... The lack of width on the path made it look awkward.

Originally Posted by Asteropaeus

Seems that for high speeds, making small turns for me is probably the way to go. Then go into A steps/plow or something like this.

Yeah again, if you're sticking to the speed skating discipline and skating mostly paths, basic stopping skills should be enough. Minus the T-stop, the basic stops also have the added benefit of not chewing through your wheels.

Originally Posted by Asteropaeus

It's probably quite hard for a 80kg 1m93 beginner to do these fancy brake things on 110mm wheels. And they probably don't even work when you go 25 km/h and suddenly have to stop.

True that. When trying to break quickly, many people use a high speed stop and a low speed stop. For example, you might do a T-stop into a hockey stop or lemons/plows into a spin stop. Whatever floats your boat (or skating discipline). Even just using a plow stop, you can achieve pretty fast stopping speeds. For example, I can stop cold using a plow stop on my inlines. It can be easy and tame or it can be harsh and aggressive depending on the urgency.