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Fitness Skating and Training Forum Discussions about on-skate and off-skate training, hydration, sports nutrition, weight loss, injuries, sports medicine, and other topics related to training and physical fitness for skaters.

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Old September 10th, 2007, 01:29 PM   #41
Bill in Houston
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Originally Posted by roller_dudette View Post
10 cals wouldnt do me any good! I need a touch of salt and quick absorbing sugar. I do mostly anaerobic skating and I think that sucks up all the glucose in my blood. I dont die now when I skate until my legs literally fall off! I didnt think I needed the sugar til one day I caved in and tried a powerade. Its nasty but it gave me a jolt of energy to skate hard.

But for distance, you probably dont need as much sugar since you burn more fat, I donno. I wouldnt know how to store more sugar in my blood before I skate. Food alone isnt enough for me. Probably when it cools off, I'll mostly only need sugar when I skate. I'm not sure how healthy this is. Probably doesnt matter since I burn it off immediately. Unless I injure myself then I have a sugar rush going on for 3 hours and its miserable.
Like you have observed, having some carb intake while skating definitely gives you a lift and helps stave off the rubber-legs. The electrolytes are good too. The calories in sports drinks are in a form that is absorbed more easily than plain sugar, so even if they seem a little gross, they probably work a little better than KoolAid or Mountain Dew. :-) If you have some extra body weight, and work at a fairly low intensity (neither of which fits for you), you can meet most of your caloric needs with fat, but I'm talking reaallly low intensity.

To me gels and sports drinks are just different ways of meeting the same goal. If you mixed up a gel in 16 oz of water, the composition would look a lot like a sports drink. So really it's just a question of which tastes better, and which is easier to carry, and which one your stomach likes better.
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Old September 10th, 2007, 01:40 PM   #42
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There's a lot of chatter about this subject in cycling, where the numbers of athletes is much greater than in skating of course, and where some of these guys who do ultra rides and tris and such need this kind of thing. You can google and find stuff, here is one very good article that I think is a good summary:

http://www.cptips.com/gels.htm

One of the key benefits to a gel is that it is a small, lightweight packet you can carry with you on a long skate, instead of a heavy bottle of sports drink. You already are hitting water stations along the way. It's not that one is necessarily better than the other on the surface.

If you are training, and there are no water stations, you have to come up with a solution. But if you are doing long training skates, at some point you are going to need calories from somewhere. Gels are one good way to solve that issue.
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Old September 11th, 2007, 12:31 AM   #43
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I never understood the idea of a low-calorie sports drink. I thought calories were half the point, if not more... It's like getting your SCUBA tank filled with low-oxygen air, or something.
It's not so much the total # of calories, but the relative ratio of calories to fluid volume. If you're taking in too much solute in what you drink during a workout, you might not absorb it as smoothly as you would something more dilute.

So, with those Camelback pellets, you could use one for every 20 oz. If you drink 100 oz of water, you'd have 5 pellets, or 50 calories. That should easily be enough to prevent bonking, and the electrolytes should also be more than adequately replenished.

As for the full-calorie sports drinks, I wait until after the workout to chug those - or, I'll have one for breakfast and/or the night before a big workout/event.

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Old September 11th, 2007, 12:37 AM   #44
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I personally can't imagine skating in a camelback. I see people do it in a race but I wouldn't want that weight on my back - I can't imagine its good for your technique, especially with the weight changing as it gets lighter.
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Old September 11th, 2007, 01:00 AM   #45
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I wouldn't like where I'd sweat under it, but I've been thinking a Camekbak might be better than the 4 bottle 'bat man belt' I wear.


I was able to put the "T" tool in the little puch up front along with my cell phone. The keys go well in the little pouch in back.

Grabbing water at SFIM messed me up for a couple of laps - I didn't see the "Drop Box" for the water bottles. You were supposed to just chuck it and a volunteer would pick it up. I don't like littering so I held onto it in one hand and I got a little crick in my back from doing that for a mile and a half. A Camelbak would prevent that (as would my back being stronger probably).

I like the Gu chocolate - it tastes like frosting. I seem to get some energy out of them, but I don't Bonk badly. I can skip meals all the time with no apparent downside.
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Old September 11th, 2007, 02:27 AM   #46
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So, with those Camelback pellets, you could use one for every 20 oz. If you drink 100 oz of water, you'd have 5 pellets, or 50 calories. That should easily be enough to prevent bonking, and the electrolytes should also be more than adequately replenished.
If you are able to make it through a workout so intense that you sweat out more than 3 liters of water, on just 50 calories, you are truly a remarkable individual.
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Old September 11th, 2007, 03:57 AM   #47
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Like you have observed, having some carb intake while skating definitely gives you a lift and helps stave off the rubber-legs. The electrolytes are good too. The calories in sports drinks are in a form that is absorbed more easily than plain sugar, so even if they seem a little gross, they probably work a little better than KoolAid or Mountain Dew. :-) If you have some extra body weight, and work at a fairly low intensity (neither of which fits for you), you can meet most of your caloric needs with fat, but I'm talking reaallly low intensity.

To me gels and sports drinks are just different ways of meeting the same goal. If you mixed up a gel in 16 oz of water, the composition would look a lot like a sports drink. So really it's just a question of which tastes better, and which is easier to carry, and which one your stomach likes better.
Totally agree! I need the sugar and need it to absorb fast. Fruit juice and coconut water didnt do it. You dont need so much salt unless you eat a lot of salt which affects your aldosterone levels. But unless the person is going subpar, not sure how others do without sugar. I go out at maximum intensity, so I burn ALL sugars! My body doesnt convert fats, etc. to sugar that quick.
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Old September 20th, 2007, 04:05 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill in Houston View Post
Like you have observed, having some carb intake while skating definitely gives you a lift and helps stave off the rubber-legs. The electrolytes are good too. The calories in sports drinks are in a form that is absorbed more easily than plain sugar, so even if they seem a little gross, they probably work a little better than KoolAid or Mountain Dew. :-)
Hi Bill,

You'll be surpriced to see how many of the gels/bars etc that has high fructose corn syrup as the main ingredient (main sugar).

HFSC is also the sugar that is used in Mountain Dew etc. - so you could actually just drink that instead - it will most likely be cheaper as well. BUT the carbonation will most likely mess you up, so be sure to drink the Mountain Dew sans carbonation
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Old September 20th, 2007, 04:16 PM   #49
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#1 - Don't drink mountain dew in a race- you're asking for trouble - carbonated or otherwise, IMO.

#2 - GOOD gels don't have HFCS in them - a highly processed sugar that isn't good for you in any way - which is the foundation of all sodas out there. It's how I got fatter than Albert.

Example - I use Crank gel right now - here are the ingredients in the Cherry Bomb:

MALTODEXTRIN (GLUCOSE POLYMERS), FILTERED WATER, FRUCTOSE, CITRIC ACID, SODIUM CITRATE, POTASSIUM CITRATE, NATURAL FLAVOR, E-GEL ™ AMINO ACID BLEND (LEUCINE, VALINE, ISOLEUCINE, HISTIDINE), ANTIOXIDANT VITAMINS C AND E (ASCORBIC ACID AND VITAMIN E ACETATE), SODIUM BENZOATE AND POTASSIUM SORBATE (TO RETAIN FRESHNESS), VITAMIN B6 (PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE), RED 40

Example #2 - Hammer gel used by some of our team members:

Long-chain Maltodextrin, Filtered Water, Apple Concentrate, Energy Smart® (Fruit Juice, Natural Grain Dextrins), Malic Acid, Vanilla, Cinnamon, Amino Acids (L-Leucine, L-Alanine, L-Valine, L-Isoleucine), Sodium Chloride, Potassium Sorbate (as a preservative), Potassium Chloride

No HFCS anywhere to be seen.

Gels work if you use good ones, and use them right. You need to drink the right amount of water with them when you take them - reason being, if you do it right then the gel becomes isotonic - the same consistency as your body fluids, and can be rapidly taken in by your system. This is how you get the bang you need.

More info on hydration with gels:

http://www.cranksports.com/products/eGel/hydration.asp

After using them all summer and in two marathons, I'm a believer in the gels. They simply work. Tossing junk food in your body is not a substitute, and isn't any cheaper really either.
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Old September 20th, 2007, 04:31 PM   #50
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Maltodextrin is made out of corn as well ( see http://nutrition.about.com/od/askyou...todextrin3.htm), its a "man made sugar".

Fructose can be natural (from fruit and vegetables) but in gels it can be "man made" http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/nut...osedangers.htm

So just watch out for the gels and see how your body responds to them. Just because a lot use them does not make them good nutrition. A long the lines of "sh** taste good, 1 billion flies can't be wrong"

The Mountain Dew comment was a joke, I hope you got that! and yes HFCS is the evil bastard and it is in everything (or just close to it), and it will make you fat.
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Last edited by Birgit; September 20th, 2007 at 04:32 PM. Reason: typo
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Old September 20th, 2007, 04:40 PM   #51
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Maltodextrim *might* be from corn, but it might be other things too. But they are not the same...

"High fructose corn syrup appears to have a different effect on the body than sugar processed from beets or sugar cane does. The fruit sugar that is found in the high fructose corn syrup doesn't stimulate the pancreas to produce insulin, nor does it stimulate leptin production that would let you know when you are satisfied."

While it is "man-made" it is far better than HFCS.

I wasn't sure if you were joking about the Dew, sometimes it's hard to tell But some people do think it's okay to use pop as a stimulant in a race, I just don't think it's a good idea unless you are a cyclist in the Tour de France late in a leg of a stage - and you know exactly what you're doing.

But I agree you need to try them first, and see how you respond. Some people dig em, some don't.
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Old September 20th, 2007, 07:04 PM   #52
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If one was to make their own juice or smoothie to take instead of a gel, what would you guys suggest as being the best recepie? What are the best fruits and vegetables for this purpose? To make it more sweet would one add a sugar substitute such as Splenda or is it better to add a natural sugar such as apple juice?

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Old September 20th, 2007, 07:08 PM   #53
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Honestly, you're going to be hard pressed to formulate something as effective as a gel or a sports drink. I know some people do it, but it seems more trouble for a less effective result unless you are really in the know about what you are doing. Plus, is it going to keep well?

One nice thing about gels is they are compact and take up very little space. I'm sure you can google homemade gels and sports drinks, sports recovery and find stuff if you want.

You'd want to be careful with smoothies too, I know if I drink too much fruit juice (or eat) I have back door issues, if ya know what I mean...
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Old September 20th, 2007, 10:26 PM   #54
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No splenda, since it has no nutrition... In my opinion.

Here's the deal. High-tech stuff like maltodextrin is used because it gets more calories from your stomach to your bloodstream faster. Fruit juice or kool-aid really will absorb slower. Something about "isotonic" or "osmotic" or something like that, if you want to look it up.

If you are really hammering, you need the fastest calorie absorption possible, hence, the goo or gel.

If you are going nice and easy and are going to kind of cruise all day, then something sucrose-based or HFCS-based or fruit based might be the ticket. Not that anyone thinks HCFS is a healthy choice...
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Old September 21st, 2007, 12:56 AM   #55
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Agree on the Splenda - its garbage. On the Isotonic, that's exactly it - read my post with the link on hydration above, it has the info.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 01:12 AM   #56
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If one was to make their own juice or smoothie to take instead of a gel, what would you guys suggest as being the best recepie? What are the best fruits and vegetables for this purpose? To make it more sweet would one add a sugar substitute such as Splenda or is it better to add a natural sugar such as apple juice?

Daniel
Look here for a natural solution "All natural sports drink" http://www.sweetsavvy.com/recipes/recipe.php?id=R219

It works for me, but try it your self.

If you want to make your own sports drink and you want to make it sweet try using stevia or xylitol.


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No splenda, since it has no nutrition... In my opinion.

Here's the deal. High-tech stuff like maltodextrin is used because it gets more calories from your stomach to your bloodstream faster. Fruit juice or kool-aid really will absorb slower. Something about "isotonic" or "osmotic" or something like that, if you want to look it up.

If you are really hammering, you need the fastest calorie absorption possible, hence, the goo or gel.

If you are going nice and easy and are going to kind of cruise all day, then something sucrose-based or HFCS-based or fruit based might be the ticket. Not that anyone thinks HCFS is a healthy choice...
Agree that splenda is a no go - big time. Not because it is has no nutrition, but because it is basically used without knowledge of longterm impact on the human body. Is it harmful - nobody nows! Till its proven good for humans, I'll say; stay away. See more details here http://www.sweetsavvy.com/sweeteners...ose%20(Splenda)
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Old September 21st, 2007, 11:56 AM   #57
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If one was to make their own juice or smoothie to take instead of a gel, what would you guys suggest as being the best recepie? What are the best fruits and vegetables for this purpose? To make it more sweet would one add a sugar substitute such as Splenda or is it better to add a natural sugar such as apple juice?

Daniel

IF I were to start to make a gell, I would start with Malt Extract. Available from brewing stores in either power or syrup form, this stuff is basically condensed beer without the hops that has never seen yeast. It's full of sugers and complex carbs derived from malted barley. (Sucrose, Maltose, and a few more complex ones)

IF I were to go overboard, I would start with barley malt, and maybe a few non-malted grains, and mash them a little hot to change the balance in favor of the longer-chain starches.

Taste would be an issue though, particularly after 4 hrs stuffed in the legband of a skinsuit.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 12:43 PM   #58
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On Splenda (sucralose):

It has neurological effects for some people. Namely, me. That's not to say it's bad, or affects everybody, just that it is not completely "transparent" in 100% of the population. If I have even a moderate amount, I will have a sensation halfway between pressure and headache (but not actually painful) and need to take a nap later in the day. I have tried it a half dozen times and this occurred each time. (I've got most of a box left if anybody wants some.)

So with that in mind, if you're gonna use it before or during a workout, at least experiment first.
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Old September 21st, 2007, 12:44 PM   #59
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Taste would be an issue though, particularly after 4 hrs stuffed in the legband of a skinsuit.
As would fermentation. We could call it Weeniebrau!
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Old September 21st, 2007, 12:52 PM   #60
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As would fermentation. We could call it Weeniebrau!
LOL!
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