Roll Line Dance Plate on a size 11 Riedell 297 boot - Can it be done?

[ursle]

Originally Posted by larryoracing

But is it the right plate for David? David skates on a traditional Artistic Boot. I got a feeling many posters do not. David's skating on a Mistral and again, I think most people on this internet are not. David is skating on a special medium grip freestyle wheel, by Roll Line, most people are not at least it seems most people are not, who are responding to this post.
So, what David is worried about is spending thousands of dollars on a whim, in which he might not like the final result. Pretty Smart in my opinion.
I think it would be wrong to push David into a 500 dollar mistake.
Now, is there a different avenue which might give him the same result. Maybe a used pair of Synder Imperial skates?

So, the forum has private messaging, why don't you if you want to talk to the op in the third person do it in a private message, however passive aggressive it may be?

Why would anyone using a roll-line plate switch to an anchor, Snyder Imperials.

Anyway, looking for Kinetrics plates, and I find Kinetrics...Mt guide boots, 500$, nothing about Kinetrics plates, vaporware?

I sold my Matrix Plates, great platform, to bad they wern't a thirty degree plate, just to slow to turn, as I skate purely for flexion, I rex, loosening all joints, I like to torque the ankles and knees and hips, and the Matrix made me ride up on the sides of the wheels, not much different than the 10 degree plates, if roll-line only made a 30 degree plate...

BTW, why would anyone wear a skate boot that went above the the top of the foot and below the ankle, you lose all articulation, why not put on an inline boot and skate inlines, much closer to ice skating
Was that passive aggressive enough?

[fierocious1]

Originally Posted by larryoracing

But is it the right plate for David? David skates on a traditional Artistic Boot. I got a feeling many posters do not. David's skating on a Mistral and again, I think most people on this internet are not. David is skating on a special medium grip freestyle wheel, by Roll Line, most people are not at least it seems most people are not, who are responding to this post.

So, what David is worried about is spending thousands of dollars on a whim, in which he might not like the final result. Pretty Smart in my opinion.

I think it would be wrong to push David into a 500 dollar mistake.

Now, is there a different avenue which might give him the same result. Maybe a used pair of Synder Imperial skates?

Take Care and thanks for the posting. I learned a lot from you and everybody else. Cheers!


Larry O

P.S. Does anybody know why Douglas Synder designed the Synder Imperial skate? To give you the feeling of doing "Loop" figures on ice.

I don't know much about the differences between those skates but... From testing plates on my machine, I can tell you that not all plates turn the same. That is the most likely reason some people like one type of plate that is used for a short axle centerline(shorter plate) and other plates are used for a longer axle centerline. So if you had a plate that was a little slower to turn, wanted it to turn better for you, buy a shorter wheelbase. Other plates may turn to quickly for an average length, or even, if it were used in a scenario that someone wanted to use the plate with a shorter than normal axle centerline and be too turny and then get rejected. Now the other thing about this info from testing is that some good plates are getting rejected solely on the belief that they are no good, when the issue is actually that the wheel base was wrong for the amount of turn the plate has for the job needing to be done. I suspect there is a lot of plates being dumped for that reason. Problem is lots of plates cannot be adjusted out of being too turny or slow to turn, but some plates can be adjusted quite a bit. There are so many variable, like a dance skater will want the rear wheels in the perfect placement for them and the fronts as well, then the issue is which plate works best for them at that length? Tough process to get the right one no matter how anyone looks at it. Glad I just like cutting and slicing, I'd go broke looking for the right dance plate...

Edit: I think it would be nice for the manufacturers to publish an agreed on reference table. The table would state wheelbase(axle centers), deck height and turn radius @ every 2 to 5 degrees of plate lean angle. A person could actually see where a plate that they used before would compare to a plate that they are looking to buy with a reasonable amount of information to help guide them. If a person saw on the table that a plate turned x amount that they had(and the skater liked it) but they need a little more length, their old plate could be compared to any new plate to get close to the range they are seeking.

[netplaceus]

Originally Posted by ursle

BTW, why would anyone wear a skate boot that went above the the top of the foot and below the ankle, you lose all articulation, why not put on an inline boot and skate inlines, much closer to ice skating
Was that passive aggressive enough?

This is actually a good question. You know it could be a regional thing too (California), I'm not 100% sure. If you are lucky enough to have 5 or 6 rinks within 150 miles of you will see it a lot. I don't think it is regional though, I see lots of skate youtube videos with them too. I rink travel skate about 300 miles a week.

It is a VERY popular choice for dance, Rhythm skaters, Artistic & more. They are on the expensive side, so it is usually the serious skate lovers who have them or those that can afford them.

The thing you might not have known is almost everyone wears them like the inclosed picture unless they are using them for figure, jumping (laced up").

Many find it works just like a mid-top and it's very comfortable (once broken in!) and very versatile. The 297 is a little different feel from the mid-tops.
It's not restricting laced as in picture, but still tight fitting on your foot. They also have a very good lifespan as boots go.

"Was that passive aggressive enough?" You did real good ursle, I'm proud of you!

[netplaceus]

Originally Posted by fierocious1

I don't know much about the differences between those skates but... From testing plates on my machine, I can tell you that not all plates turn the same. That is the most likely reason some people like one type of plate that is used for a short axle centerline(shorter plate) and other plates are used for a longer axle centerline. So if you had a plate that was a little slower to turn, wanted it to turn better for you, buy a shorter wheelbase. Other plates may turn to quickly for an average length, or even, if it were used in a scenario that someone wanted to use the plate with a shorter than normal axle centerline and be too turny and then get rejected. Now the other thing about this info from testing is that some good plates are getting rejected solely on the belief that they are no good, when the issue is actually that the wheel base was wrong for the amount of turn the plate has for the job needing to be done. I suspect there is a lot of plates being dumped for that reason. Problem is lots of plates cannot be adjusted out of being too turny or slow to turn, but some plates can be adjusted quite a bit. There are so many variable, like a dance skater will want the rear wheels in the perfect placement for them and the fronts as well, then the issue is which plate works best for them at that length? Tough process to get the right one no matter how anyone looks at it. Glad I just like cutting and slicing, I'd go broke looking for the right dance plate...

Edit: I think it would be nice for the manufacturers to publish an agreed on reference table. The table would state wheelbase(axle centers), deck height and turn radius @ every 2 to 5 degrees of plate lean angle. A person could actually see where a plate that they used before would compare to a plate that they are looking to buy with a reasonable amount of information to help guide them. If a person saw on the table that a plate turned x amount that they had(and the skater liked it) but they need a little more length, their old plate could be compared to any new plate to get close to the range they are seeking.

Yes! Great observations, great post! The plate manufacturers game drives me nuts, it is so outrageously dishonest. It is all about branding, if they made such a reference table it would change the whole game. They would lose money because people could compare based on facts.

So people buy plates based on a emotional advertising with little real information, just some silly name they give the plate and word of mouth.

SO why does David skate with the Mistral? See, they make me use the stupid branded name like it has some mysterious power In reality, I think it is just a well made 15 degree plate. Many others will do the same thing I'm sure!

I chose it because because it was kind of neutral. I like to do a lot of different things on my skates.

If you can believe Roll-line (who knows!), it is best for: Freestyle, Figure & Dance , but good for Jam, Rhythm, Speed, Derby & Hockey.

I even took my skates to an open public night at a Derby rink, that was a really fun experience.

Sorry fierocious1, I know you did not ask all these questions, but it was late and it saved me time, the others will see it.

PS, the "unusual" RL Panther wheels I have? They are fun sometimes. Most grip AND killer easy role I have ever experienced. Too much grip actually, I went back to the Rollerbones Art Elite 57mm 101A. T- Stops on Panthers feel weird too, almost noiseless! I don't like it.

Almost 2AM, I got to stop doing this!

[rwsz]

my son use to be a world class singles skater and had an rolline energy 185 on an 11 riedell 297 and then a little custom 330 or something like that I think and its fine. if u find the plate a bit small u can always put it a bit forward on the heel as getting it under the ball of the foot is more important. I mounted plenty of riedell boots back in the day

[netplaceus]

Originally Posted by larryoracing

But is it the right plate for David? David skates on a traditional Artistic Boot. I got a feeling many posters do not. David's skating on a Mistral and again, I think most people on this internet are not. David is skating on a special medium grip freestyle wheel, by Roll Line, most people are not at least it seems most people are not, who are responding to this post.

So, what David is worried about is spending thousands of dollars on a whim, in which he might not like the final result. Pretty Smart in my opinion.

I think it would be wrong to push David into a 500 dollar mistake.

Now, is there a different avenue which might give him the same result. Maybe a used pair of Synder Imperial skates?

Take Care and thanks for the posting. I learned a lot from you and everybody else. Cheers!


Larry O

P.S. Does anybody know why Douglas Synder designed the Synder Imperial skate? To give you the feeling of doing "Loop" figures on ice.

Thank you all, but if you have not figured it out by now? I am hardly the type
to get pushed into anything. But thanks for your concerns.

Also larryoracing makes a very good point above. While many of you are VERY experienced, you can't have experience in everything and there is no shame in that. If you have not used the equipment, you will find it hard to understand how it FEELS just from numbers and looking at it.

To me nothing is perfect, just pros and cons. By the way, the special "medium grip" freestyle wheel above; Called Panthers. They actually skate more like like 101's because 90% of the wheel is rock hard except the tred. So little deformation makes them feel harder and roll really easy. I still use them from time to time but prefer bones 101's.

[dvw]

Originally Posted by netplaceus

This is so true! And many of them feel the same because they have the same kingpin angles.

And the same trucks, and the same cushions, and...

Originally Posted by netplaceus

I have always found it odd, suspicious, some plate manufacturers avoid talking about or even listing their kingpin angles.

It is of little help to the vast majority of skaters, and it not necessarily indicative of a particular plate's personality. I can show you plates that violate all of the "rules".

[dvw]

Originally Posted by larryoracing

I know your heart was set on buying a pair of 180 Dance Plates and mounting them to your Riedell 297 boots.

The only way I could see you running the 180 Dance plate would be to buy a pair of Berry Boots and mounting them to your 180 plates. Riedell Boots are huge and Edea Boots are smaller, but the smallest boots for your foot size is the Berry Boots.

Larry, you're gonna have to help me here. What does one have to do with the other? Assuming the boot fits correctly and that the plate is the appropriate size as well, I can't think of a limitation that would preclude using a Roll Line on a 297, at least from a mechanical standpoint.

[ursle]

Originally Posted by netplaceus

The is actually a good question. You know it could be a regional thing too (California), I'm not 100% sure. If you are lucky enough to have 5 or 6 rinks within 150 miles of you will see it a lot. I don't think it is regional though, I see lots of skate youtube videos with them too. I rink travel skate about 300 miles a week.

It is a VERY popular choice for dance, Rhythm skaters, Artistic & more. They are on the expensive side, so it is usually the serious skate lovers who have them or those that can afford them.

The thing you might not have known is almost everyone wears them like the inclosed picture unless they are using them for figure, jumping (laced up").

Many find it works just like a mid-top and it's very comfortable (once broken in!) and very versatile. The 297 is a little different feel from the mid-tops.
It's not restricting laced as in picture, but still tight fitting on your foot. They also have a very good lifespan as boots go.

In 87' i was living in LA and a guy named Simms (yes that simms http://www.simsnow.com/) was selling Cloud cushions and Gyro outdoor wheels, i bought some, picked up some used skates, yes hi-tops and of course tied them off at the top of the foot below the ankle, skated the strand evenings, went tru three pair of boots with the cushions and wheels, now I use Oby 51's and leave the top eylet empty, been there, done that

[netplaceus]

Originally Posted by ursle

In 87' i was living in LA and a guy named Simms (yes that simms http://www.simsnow.com/) was selling Cloud cushions and Gyro outdoor wheels, i bought some, picked up some used skates, yes hi-tops and of course tied them off at the top of the foot below the ankle, skated the strand evenings, went tru three pair of boots with the cushions and wheels, now I use Oby 51's and leave the top eylet empty, been there, done that

Yes, I was pretty sure once you saw the picture you would understand, so much gets lost in text sometimes.

[netplaceus]

Originally Posted by rwsz

my son use to be a world class singles skater and had an rolline energy 185 on an 11 riedell 297 and then a little custom 330 or something like that I think and its fine. if u find the plate a bit small u can always put it a bit forward on the heel as getting it under the ball of the foot is more important. I mounted plenty of riedell boots back in the day

That's what I thought. I was only curious why the plate chart seems to make an exception for Riedell (needs larger plates with Roll-line).

[netplaceus]

Originally Posted by dvw

And the same trucks, and the same cushions, and...



It is of little help to the vast majority of skaters, and it not necessarily indicative of a particular plate's personality. I can show you plates that violate all of the "rules".

Maybe not, but it is better than the almost nothing they offer us now.
I don't like it, the whole point is to keep you in the dark from comparing it to others on the market. Most skate plates are just not that complicated.

[larryoracing]

DVW,

I think you misunderstood my comment and if you understood it, I don't think you would like my reasoning. You can mount a Roll Line Plate to a Riedell boot.

But the physical size of some boots makes it easier to mount a shorter plate. The Berry boot is the shortest boot for a particular size. It lends itself to putting on the shortest plate. By contrast the Riedell boot is the longest boot for any particular size and it lends itself to mounting a longer plate to it.

Getting back to David's question. I don't really think anybody has answered it. Why to the Riedell charts always say to mount a longer plate to it than standard? Have you ever seen a boot that has been mounted up to a Reidell chart? The plate goes from for the back of the boot to the very tip of the boot.
This is really non standard, but I think most rink skates are mounted that way.


Ursle had a question and really didn't like the tone of my answer. His response had something to do with inline boots being used instead of Artistic boots. In General there are many old school skaters who skate on really stiff boots. Boots generally thought of ice boots. So actually many old school skaters would agree but most skaters prefer a softer boot, like the standard 297.

Also David had a point about his wheels. They are smaller in Diameter. Most artistic Dance competition skaters run a taller wheel 62/63 mm. A smaller wheel is considered a freestyle wheel. In fact, I think David's setup is more of a Freestyle skate setup. I run Freestyle wheel for Freestyle but the grip of my wheels are 99A. They make a 97A, then comes the 95A, which I consider medium grip.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani

P.S. Ursle pointed out that he didn't like the Synder Imperial. Half the people on this internet skate on they Synder Royal, which is a lightened Synder Imperial . If you ever skated on a Synder Imperial Imperial/Royal, Roll Line Dance or a Roll Line Ring, you would note the similarities and consider someone wanting more action in their skates to try on a pair of used Synder Imperials at a very cheap price before spendings thousannds on the Dance or Ring.

[ursle]

Originally Posted by larryoracing

DVW,
I think you misunderstood my comment and if you understood it, I don't think you would like my reasoning. You can mount a Roll Line Plate to a Riedell boot.
But the physical size of some boots makes it easier to mount a shorter plate. The Berry boot is the shortest boot for a particular size. It lends itself to putting on the shortest plate. By contrast the Riedell boot is the longest boot for any particular size and it lends itself to mounting a longer plate to it.

Originally Posted by ursle

I think you lost track of the conversation and are just throwing any bizarre thought up in the air

Originally Posted by larryoracing

Getting back to David's question. I don't really think anybody has answered it. Why to the Riedell charts always say to mount a longer plate to it than standard? Have you ever seen a boot that has been mounted up to a Reidell chart? The plate goes from for the back of the boot to the very tip of the boot.
This is really non standard, but I think most rink skates are mounted that way.

Originally Posted by ursle

David has answered his own question, a few times, you seem to be the one that doesn't understand, or simply won't

Originally Posted by larryoracing

ursle had a question and really didn't like the tone of my answer. His response had something to do with inline boots being used instead of Artistic boots. In General there are many old school skaters who skate on really stiff boots. Boots generally thought of ice boots. So actually many old school skaters would agree but most skaters prefer a softer boot, like the standard 297.

Originally Posted by ursle

Obviously, sarcasm escapes you

Originally Posted by larryoracing

Also David had a point about his wheels. They are smaller in Diameter. Most artistic Dance competition skaters run a taller wheel 62/63 mm. A smaller wheel is considered a freestyle wheel. In fact, I think David's setup is more of a Freestyle skate setup. I run Freestyle wheel for Freestyle but the grip of my wheels are 99A. They make a 97A, then comes the 95A, which I consider medium grip.

Originally Posted by ursle

Lets try to remember netplaceus is building skates for freeskating, session skating, for his own pleasure, and your ramble is rather bizarre, again

Originally Posted by larryoracing

P.S. Ursle pointed out that he didn't like the Synder Imperial. Half the people on this internet skate on (they Synder) the Snyder Royal, which is a lightened Synder Imperial . If you ever skated on a Synder Imperial Imperial/Royal, Roll Line Dance or a Roll Line Ring, you would note the similarities and consider someone wanting more action in their skates to try on a pair of used Synder Imperials at a very cheap price before spendings thousannds on the Dance or Ring.

Originally Posted by ursle

Actually, what makes you think I don't like the Imperials, I simply pointed out how rude it was to suggest that someone stop using a lightweight Roll-line plate and instead use a brick, which may I add, is a 30 degree plate, when obviously, netplaceus prefers a plate in the 18 degree range, and may I add, I have a Snyder Royal Ti plate, the Snyder Royal is a brick, replacing any available parts with titanium parts makes it bearable, so, your assumptions all along are needless. And BTW, the difference between skating any Roll-line (I had the Matrix) and the Imperial or Royal is night and day, one is a 18 degree plate (Roll-line) and the other is a 30 degree plate (Snyder) and again, the Snyder plates are bricks.
Then you again....suggest that netplaceus stop using the Roll-line plates he already owns and buy a Snyder Imperial plate, which again, is a 30 degree plate, when netplaceus obviously prefers an 18-20 degree plate, btw, the dance nor the ring are thousands of dollars and again the way someone spends their money is none of your buisness.

Elvis has left the building.

[larryoracing]

you should stop posting. Your account can be taken away.

Synder Imperials have a very nice action. If you're not sure if you really want a Dance Plate, you might try the Imperial/Used at a very cheap price.

If you really like the Imperial you are probably going to like the Dance Plate.

Little things can make a big difference in plate length selection. Rick points out using a 185 on size 11 boot. But going to a 180 might be just enough to not make the experience enjoyable.

Sorry my posts bother you so much. Was not meant to be that way.

Sorry,

Larry O

[ursle]

Originally Posted by larryoracing

Synder Imperials have a very nice action. If you're not sure if you really want a Dance Plate, you might try the Imperial/Used at a very cheap price.

If you really like the Imperial you are probably going to like the Dance Plate.

Little things can make a big difference in plate length selection. Rick points out using a 185 on size 11 boot. But going to a 180 might be just enough to not make the experience enjoyable.

Alzimers must be an issue.
I'm not askng you for advice, I'm trying to get you to stop giving it, why, how do you possibly think I need a dance plate, or an Imperial, I just informed you I have a Royal, titanium.
Another nonsensical tangent...
What neuron synapse failure would lead you to the conclusion that I want a dance plate?
And from what dimension do you grasp at my needing a 185 plate for a size 11 boot?
So let's sum up, I skate an Obermeyer 351 size 9.5 boot, my plates are ancient, (as is the boot) Sure Grip white magnesium which were converted from S/A45's to D/A45's, and the conversion is titanium, which I enjoy, outdoors only, with Roll-line Helium wheels, 64mm, 82a.
I started ice skating at the age of 3, hockey, stopped when I was 15, that was in '68, have never skated in a roller skate rink, have always skated outdoors, prefer to skate backwards in a figure 8, 8 wheels down, rexxing.
I skate just like I was on ice, and I skate for flexion, and I skate alone, rather the opposite of your situation I garner
As you obviously are incapable of following any topic, and obviously, not intentionally, I have no interest in a conversation with you, I'm sure you're a wealth of interesting information but let's stick to reality, and in your case, unasked for advice is unwanted advice, so, enjoy yourself, flippeadoda.

[netplaceus]

Originally Posted by larryoracing

DVW,

I think you misunderstood my comment and if you understood it, I don't think you would like my reasoning. You can mount a Roll Line Plate to a Riedell boot.

But the physical size of some boots makes it easier to mount a shorter plate. The Berry boot is the shortest boot for a particular size. It lends itself to putting on the shortest plate. By contrast the Riedell boot is the longest boot for any particular size and it lends itself to mounting a longer plate to it.

Getting back to David's question. I don't really think anybody has answered it. Why to the Riedell charts always say to mount a longer plate to it than standard? Have you ever seen a boot that has been mounted up to a Reidell chart? The plate goes from for the back of the boot to the very tip of the boot.
This is really non standard, but I think most rink skates are mounted that way.


Ursle had a question and really didn't like the tone of my answer. His response had something to do with inline boots being used instead of Artistic boots. In General there are many old school skaters who skate on really stiff boots. Boots generally thought of ice boots. So actually many old school skaters would agree but most skaters prefer a softer boot, like the standard 297.

Also David had a point about his wheels. They are smaller in Diameter. Most artistic Dance competition skaters run a taller wheel 62/63 mm. A smaller wheel is considered a freestyle wheel. In fact, I think David's setup is more of a Freestyle skate setup. I run Freestyle wheel for Freestyle but the grip of my wheels are 99A. They make a 97A, then comes the 95A, which I consider medium grip.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani

P.S. Ursle pointed out that he didn't like the Synder Imperial. Half the people on this internet skate on they Synder Royal, which is a lightened Synder Imperial . If you ever skated on a Synder Imperial Imperial/Royal, Roll Line Dance or a Roll Line Ring, you would note the similarities and consider someone wanting more action in their skates to try on a pair of used Synder Imperials at a very cheap price before spendings thousannds on the Dance or Ring.

"Getting back to David's question. I don't really think anybody has answered it."

Yes, that's all I really wanted to know or even asked. All this talk of what plate is best for David, analysis of my current skate setup and better plate, boot suggestions are unrelated.
But I don't mind the questions if your really interested why I like something.

There are MANY other boots that will work, some plates similar to the RL Dance , I already know that. That information is readily available. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy and value other opinions! A lot of skaters love to debate plates, I admit, I do a little. But for the most part my eyes glaze over these days. If you have been around for a while you may know what I mean or... maybe still love it!

"The plate goes from for the back of the boot to the very tip of the boot.
This is really non standard, but I think most rink skates are mounted that way."

No, it's called a "standard mount" (back of the boot) in the business. A pro shop will always give you a standard mount unless you ask otherwise (or should!). Most stock skates, allot of what pro shops sell, are all standard mounts. I mean what else can they do, they don't know who the skates will be going on, they have to be standard mounts.

I might do a standard mount or not, depends on how things line up. Most of us understand how changes to the mount affect our experience, most people buying stock skates don't, and most of them are stock skates.

Here are the directions that came with my Roll-Line plate for any boot. Standard mount:

" I don't think you would like my reasoning. You can mount a Roll Line Plate to a Riedell boot."

I knew that even before posting; simple musuments. That was not the question. If you kept up, the best answer came from roll-line email, but even that did not explain the why. Anyway, I am cool, I consider the question answered and good enough. Thanks. Moving on! Moving on! Moving on! Moving on! Moving on! Moving on! Moving on! Copy that?

[larryoracing]

If you saw a standard mount for a Riedell boot the plate would actually go to the tip of the boot. From your diagram the plate stops short of the tip of the boot. So really this is a non-standard mount for a Riedell boot and more of a artistic mount common to most of the advanced skaters on this website.

I wonder if the 190 plate what was recommended for your size 11 boots?

Thanks,

Larry Otani


Have a great day!

[sk84luv]

Thank you for posting this chart. I'll be checking my Mistrals, as I'm considering remounting them just a bit forward of the current position.

If I do, I'm thinking I'll need to fill in the old hole with something like steel putty, or JB Weld.

BTW, at the bottom of the chart I'm instructed to tighten the screws with a hammer, LOL. Pretty sure I understand I'm supposed to use a hammer to flatten the ends, but I just sounds funny.

[netplaceus]

Originally Posted by sk84luv

Thank you for posting this chart. I'll be checking my Mistrals, as I'm considering remounting them just a bit forward of the current position.

If I do, I'm thinking I'll need to fill in the old hole with something like steel putty, or JB Weld.

BTW, at the bottom of the chart I'm instructed to tighten the screws with a hammer, LOL. Pretty sure I understand I'm supposed to use a hammer to flatten the ends, but I just sounds funny.

Yes, I saw that too! LOL In was probably originally written in Italian.