Wheels very hard

[Dazzler]

I recently got back into skating when I started taking my 6 year old to the rink. After the first few visits I decided to get us our own skates rather than use the rink ones. I bought us both a pair of beginner skates. I'm not a beginner but hadn't quad skated since the 80s and wanted to start with a good but not overly expensive pair. I chose a reputable brand and went with 82a wheel hardness as tbh, that seems like a pretty standard wheel for skaters at an entry level.

When the skates arrived, I was surprised at the wheel hardness but as I literally only knew what I had read I accepted them in good faith. The first few times I wore them I was skidding about on the rink, which hadn't happened in the rink skates. I wasn't skidding around like Bambi or anything but enough to make me cautious. I put it down to the skates being new, I also had a couple of hard falls which I put down to me being overly ambitious. I'm actually a reasonably decent skater so I adapted to the new skates and didn't think a lot about it until workers at the rink started to comment on my wheels. There were a few queries about their hardness because of how fast they were spinning and they were all surprised when I said they were 82a. I've since checked them out compared to the rink skates and other skaters skates and my wheels are very much harder than the 82a wheels.

I'm doing ok on these wheels now that I've adapted to them, however I'm really concerned that I've got my son in these skates. He's only a beginner skater and I'm worried about him in them. He's actually skating pretty well in them, can maintain a good speed, can spin 180 and skate on (the rink regularly plays a direction changing game) and is starting to shoot the duck. So he's doing ok. But I wonder if I should be changing the wheels? Or if I just don't have a clue and sometimes 82a wheels can actually be quite hard? And we're all fine? Or maybe even if the wheels are incorrectly hard but he's doing ok and it's fine for him to keep using them? They were bought to only ever be used in the rink. For outdoor skating he has an old but good condition pair of adjustable quads and a good pair of inlines that he's working up to.

I've emailed the company but it's the weekend so obviously I doubt I'll hear from them for at least the next 24 hours. I'm just glad that I figured out that the wheels are very hard before I ordered a pair for my mother. She's come skating with us for the last month and has been bitten by the bug too. These wheels would have been an utter disaster for her.

[Dec8rSk8r]

Hi Dazzler, first of all, glad you found the forum. What kind of wheels did you get, do you know the name and possibly what they are made of? Do you have a link where you bought them? 82a wheels should quite soft, actually that sounds like an outdoor wheel. Urethane can harden as it ages (curing I believe they call it) and as it is exposed to UV light, but it sounds like these are new wheels. Glad your whole family is enjoying skating. I wear Nike volleyball kneepads under my jeans, that is something to consider too, especially for your mom.

[Dazzler]

The wheels details are:
Wheels: 54x32mm
PU Injection 82a
Chassis & Truck: Nylon
Toestop & Cushions: PU injection
Bearings: Abec 3

I know they aren't the highest spec but the bearings are fine, they have great, smooth spin but the wheels aren't remotely rubbery. The skates are fine at the rink but when I tried wearing them at home to practice transitions they feel awful on my laminated wooden flooring and barely want to roll. I compared them to my inline skates which are 80a and they just don't compare.

[Dec8rSk8r]

Hmm, maybe do a search on wheel durometer on the forum if you are looking for your next set. Or maybe you will get lucky and live near a member with a decent wheel collection who doesn't mind letting people try his or her wheels out. I remember 92a being a soft urethane wheel, so I don't know what is going on that those 82a are hard. If you bought a skate package, some of those have some pretty poor wheels on them, like Caymans.

[Dazzler]

I bought the skates as one from a company with a good reputation so I'm surprised that the wheels are so wrong. I think my son really, really needs a softer wheel. He's doing ok but I think he'd be more secure on softer wheels. They haven't gotten back to me yet, so I'll give them a few more days and try again. If they don't get back to me soon I'll contact their twitter. Or better yet, get my husband to do it as he has thousands of twitter followers and I might as well get some use out of his twitter dedication.

[fierocious1]

Originally Posted by Dazzler

The wheels details are:
Wheels: 54x32mm
PU Injection 82a
Chassis & Truck: Nylon
Toestop & Cushions: PU injection
Bearings: Abec 3

I know they aren't the highest spec but the bearings are fine, they have great, smooth spin but the wheels aren't remotely rubbery. The skates are fine at the rink but when I tried wearing them at home to practice transitions they feel awful on my laminated wooden flooring and barely want to roll. I compared them to my inline skates which are 80a and they just don't compare.

Those are most likely low grade wheels @ 82a are plenty soft. Hyper wheels are of a much better chemical makeup. All urethanes are not equal and with same duro one wheel may slide when another will grip well. Hyper wheels @ 92a would most likely have no issues gripping but you also might want to check with other seasoned skaters there to see what they use compared also to how your son wishes to skate, speed, dance, whatever.
Inlines and quad comparisons dont give true results in a comparison, the wheels aren't used the same way.
On loose floors I use Green Shamans @ 93a, on tight grippy floors I use White Shamans @ 97a

[Dazzler]

I've got good news on my wheels. The company is going to send me two new sets of wheels. I'm so happy the rink staff pointed out the wheel hardness to me, that I contacted the company and how fast they are to remedy the issue. I think having softer wheels will make a huge difference to my son's skating.

That said, (never say I can't find the cloud around my silver lining) I'm wondering if I'll find the proper 82a wheels a bit slow/sluggish now? I'm considering upgrading to a pair of derby skates to have as well and alternate between the two. I can use my original skates at home and when I'm skating with my son, especially when the rink is packed with kids. And use the derby skates for my adult skate nights so I can more confidently work on speeding up, jumps, turns, etc.

I literally only started skating again on NYE and this will be my third pair of skates bought in as many months. Though my reasoning is, that I'm way too old to be putting myself at risk of injuries in the wrong kinds of skates.

[Dec8rSk8r]

Originally Posted by Dazzler

Though my reasoning is, that I'm way too old to be putting myself at risk of injuries in the wrong kinds of skates.

We all make this very same conclusion. The bad news is, you have a lot of reading to do. The good news is that the answers you seek are likely all here on skatelog. Quality equipment is important and padding up a little seems like a good idea to me. Here are a couple of links to get you started.

http://216.92.62.225/forums/showthread.php?t=6574
http://216.92.62.225/forums/showthread.php?t=10249

[Dazzler]

Originally Posted by Dec8rSk8r

We all make this very same conclusion. The bad news is, you have a lot of reading to do. The good news is that the answers you seek are likely all here on skatelog. Quality equipment is important and padding up a little seems like a good idea to me. Here are a couple of links to get you started.

http://216.92.62.225/forums/showthread.php?t=6574
http://216.92.62.225/forums/showthread.php?t=10249

Thanks. I have a full set of wrist/elbow/knee pads. I have ordered padded shorts too as I've managed to land on my hip twice.

[Dec8rSk8r]

Originally Posted by Dazzler

Thanks. I have a full set of wrist/elbow/knee pads. I have ordered padded shorts too as I've managed to land on my hip twice.

You're welcome. When deciding your next skates, it has always helped me to focus on one piece at a time, boots, plates, wheels, bearings. The 2 threads I linked show members collections and their top 5 list. I don't recommend package skates, the plates are too long, and it sounds like you would benefit from the maneuverability of a slightly shorter plate. Enjoy the SEDS virus (skate equipment dependency syndrome)!

[zebra1922]

I think for beginner (i.e. your son) then 82a is pretty good. They will give great grip on an indoor rink and allow your son to get going, get some speed, grip sound corners when learning crossovers etc. As he gets better you will likely want to move to a lower grip/harder wheel. Although these lose some traction, they improve your ability to manouvre, spin etc.

If you get some harder wheels, keep the old ones for use outdoors as the general advice is a larger, grippier wheel is better for outdoor skating.

I should add most of this comes from reading this forum and talking to a few folk. I'm still a relatively new beginner to skating. I had trouble in the beginning with slippy wheels so got some grippy ones which helped be get up and running, but they soon came to restrict my ability to manouvre when I stepped up to intermediate level. Just need to make sure the wheens (size and hardness) are suitable for a) your competence and b) wthe type of sakting you want to do.

Who knew this was all so complicated ?(well you lot of course, me only in the last 6 months!)

[wired]

Two thoughts on this thread:

1. Hardness is only tangentially related to grip. Some soft wheels have less grip than harder ones. In general that is why many here pay for better wheels. They have good grip while rolling like mad since they are not so soft as to squish out.

2. Specifications mean little in the skate world. This is especially prominent in lower end skates. Until one has a good amount of skating and skate equipment experience comparing "specs" is an exercise in futility.

.

[zebra1922]

My experience was I started with similar wheel to yours (in my case 78a). I found them good to begin with in the rink as I slipped too much when trying to accelerate forwards on harder wheels.

As I progressed they became a limiting factor as they prevented easy manoeuvring of the skate for dance/jam/rhythm moves. I've not got Radar Riva (96a/57mm) for indoor and Radar Zen (85a/62mm) for outdoor.

The small, hard wheels indoor really help my manoeuvres, the larger, softer skates prevent me falling on my ass so much outside!

[rufusprime99]

Were the skates really cheap? Like under $100, maybe around $50? If so, they will likely break pretty easily with an adult skating them.

It strikes me odd that your supposedly soft wheels are not soft. A soft wheel, sometimes termed and indoor/outdoor wheel is pretty low on the totem pole price wise. Of course, on the other hand, a really soft wheel actually works. I have had a couple of low end skates that have had them. Slow, but grippy. It sounds like you have some hard slick really bad wheels. They can be really bad. So bad that there is no reason for anyone to make them as they are next to useless.

[TheTree]

I remember being young and buying a cheap pair of skates, and found the wheels wicked slippery too, I am not saying this will work for you, but what i did and it worked for me, is i wore them outside on the pavement several tymes and really broke them in outside, and they seemed to work a lot better the next tyme I went to the rink.. just a suggestion, do what feels right for you

[Dazzler]

The update on this is that the wheels that came with the skates were total plastic crap, rather than the 82a pu that they were advertised as. The company admitted the mistake and sent me 16 new wheels. Very soft 80a wheels. Since then I've learned a range of new skills, from changing bearings from one wheel to another super efficiently, buying myself new bearings taking them apart and cleaning and lubing them properly to get rid of factory dust, dyeing the new wheels because the replacements they sent me were white and looked really, really, really stupid on my son's black skates. I keep a little tool set with a skate multi-tool, separate socket wrench, screw driver, pair of allen keys, bottle of lube and even spare bearings, with my skates at all time.

I bought a really great pair of used derby skates from another skater at the rink. I mainly use those for rink skating but I sometimes take the small soft wheeled skates with me for when I need to go slower when I'm learning something new. For example, for the first few sessions after I learned the move, I absolutely could not do mohawk turns on the derby skates due to a mixture of the speed and a total mental block. Getting out the smaller slower skates and turning on those while I built up speed helped me gain confidence. I'm now using the older skates for practicing the stroll step (continuous forward cross unders) It's also an amazing workout because boy do I have to work extremely hard to go forward on those wheels, even with their great new bearings. I've also, very occasionally used those skates at the skate park. They are really soft and gummy, so just what I want on ramps. Tbh, I haven't a huge interest in ramps, pipes, etc but my son is very keen and there is no way I'm going to take him skating and then stand around in stupid shoes. So I'm learning to pump. We're going to the indoor skate park for the first time in a couple of hours. I will be taking my padded underpants!

At some point I'll probably invest in a good pair of jam or artistic skates because those are my favourite aspects of skating. And while this is the wrong forum for it, I've also been working on my inline skating, correcting my glide and learning to go longer distances with a goal of doing the Berlin marathon in the next few years. I have a new pair of 80mm 4 wheeled skates but am tempted to get myself some 110mm tri-wheels in the future. On that note, I've also set up a mini shelving unit in my hallway to house my 3 pairs of skates, my son's two pairs, our pads and helmets. Though I think I'll move that into my bedroom as my son's friends tend to think that the shelves full of skates are fair game to play with. And the girls in particular aren't too impressed when I palm them off with the crappy kids' skates I have in the boot of my car and won't let them try any of my (admittedly very pretty) skates.

(I have now been skating for just over 3 months, so very, very clearly have an addiction.)

[Mort]

Bearings dont do crap for speed(for the most part, if you want to know more, just ask ). It's all about straight axles, good hubs, and good urethane. Bones reds is all you really need until you have top level plates, wheels , and boots. Hell not even them really... you just need clean bearings, 0w20 synthetic motor oil. Cheap, easy to clean, super low friction. If your bearings spin for minutes on end, they arent lubricated properly.

What kind of skates are you rolling on? Theres a lot of cheap modifications out there for the entry level skates to really improve their performance.

[rufusprime99]

Originally Posted by Dazzler

The update on this is that the wheels that came with the skates were total plastic crap, rather than the 82a pu that they were advertised as. The company admitted the mistake and sent me 16 new wheels. Very soft 80a wheels. Since then I've learned a range of new skills, from changing bearings from one wheel to another super efficiently, buying myself new bearings taking them apart and cleaning and lubing them properly to get rid of factory dust, dyeing the new wheels because the replacements they sent me were white and looked really, really, really stupid on my son's black skates. I keep a little tool set with a skate multi-tool, separate socket wrench, screw driver, pair of allen keys, bottle of lube and even spare bearings, with my skates at all time.

Well, congrats. You ran into issues, and you handled them head on, coming out stronger and more knowledgeable for your troubles. You are in for a lot of fun. Big thumbs up on those padded underpants. When you are likely to take a spill or two, they are a must.

[wired]

Originally Posted by Mort

Bones reds is all you really need until you have top level plates, wheels , and boots.

I used to recommend Bones Reds until they started failing on me after a little over a year. The balls would start to deteriorate and sling black gunk out of the bearings onto my hubs.

Since they are usually around $35 I looked for something else in that range and found Qube 8-ball for about $40. I skated the crap out of those for a couple of years and they still work great. Highly recommended!

I own and have skated a lot of different bearings (including Bones Swiss Ceramics) and see little difference in performance. For the last several years I've been on Bont 7mm microbearings and they are great! Spin better than the day I got them and no anything yet!

.

[Mort]

Originally Posted by wired

I used to recommend Bones Reds until they started failing on me after a little over a year. The balls would start to deteriorate and sling black gunk out of the bearings onto my hubs.

Since they are usually around $35 I looked for something else in that range and found Qube 8-ball for about $40. I skated the crap out of those for a couple of years and they still work great. Highly recommended!

I own and have skated a lot of different bearings (including Bones Swiss Ceramics) and see little difference in performance. For the last several years I've been on Bont 7mm microbearings and they are great! Spin better than the day I got them and no anything yet!

.

Sometimes those China bearings just have bad manufacturing. I've seen many cages malformed. So a heat treatment probably got cut short.

Qube are great, but the reason I don't reccomend them is because they do not have much room for misalignments like the reds do. Qube have much tighter internal clearances than the reds which are very loose. So axles that arent real straight and wheels that have poor hubs will still roll effortlessly, but you put Qubes in there and people will think they suck even though they are superior.

Straight axles. Wicked Scott's and Qube 8balls for the win.

As for micros... I eat them for breakfast... but I got some new axles put in to test to see if they can hold up