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Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

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Old March 30th, 2017, 01:05 AM   #1
ipixu78
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Default First time Artistic quad skate purchase advice required.

I am very keen to get into Artistic quad skating after discovering my interest over a few years of recreational skating on a pair of Powerslide EVO rockered inlines. I do realize the transition to quads will be very different, as I have occasionally worn quads for fun. My balance on quads is fine and am still able to do many of the toe and heel wheel tricks I typically do on my custom inline setup, but hope towards a very agile quad setup.

The setup I have in mind is the Roll-line Dance Plate with Risport Royal boots on roll-lines micro bearings.

I'd like to get these mounted professionally but lack faith in Australian shops to get it right. The reason why I'm worried about this is that Most rollerskates don't offer any adjustment in plate position and that from my experience with inlines my right foot has always needed a small 1mm adjustment. How is it possible to get things right without constant tinkering. It took about 4 attempts to find the right position for my inline frame only to find that the distance from Centreline was about 1.mm at heel and .5mm at forefore, to compensate for pronation?

Considering mounting technique requires drilling, I'm worried it will destroy a pair of expensive boots and also create liability issues. Who is responsible? I don't think skate shops in Australia really can mount plates accurately as they are not podiatrists. If they get it wrong should I have to settle on either a wierd feeling setup or boots that have heaps of redundant holes in them.

I guess I lack confidence, considering that Its not even possible to try out boots without ordering them. It would be nice to try a pair of these to see if standard mounting works for me or not. As male sized boots 42-43 are not common it makes it hard in even the most well stocked skate shop.

Would love to hear opinions and even experiences of others who have gone through this process of boot selection and plate positioning. Thanks.
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Old March 30th, 2017, 10:14 AM   #2
rwsz
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depends on what area u are in, you should look for a rink with an artistic skating club to see who mounts for them. skates are mounted for edges and balance and most of it is done by eye although there are tools out there. your setup seems pretty good, not sure i would want the micro bearings but i never had them. good luck,,,if you have feet problems u should discuss it with the person mounting them.
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Old March 31st, 2017, 05:39 AM   #3
larryoracing
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Smile Good questions and good luck...lol!

Wow, you are asking a lot of wonderful questions which I think everybody on this board, has at least once tried to mount their own skates.

1) Below are a couple of links to get you started on your journey. They make charts specific to your application, but I haven’t refound them yet….i.e…Risport boots mounted on Roll Line Roller skate frames.

Boot fitting chart
https://www.skatesus.com/learning_ce...hart.php?frd=f

PLATE SIZING CHART.
http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-9980580...3_2267_8769930

2) I find it amazing that your foot size is hard to find in Australia.

3) You are going to waste a lot of money if you don’t go get your feet measured and find the exact size boot for your feet.

4) I’m not sure if the Risport boots are heat moldable or if you will have to go with the “punch” method to make your boots fit if there are any tight spots or irregularities that make your boot uncomfortable to wear.

5) Since you are buying a “unique” skate plate, which only comes in full sizes you may never ever get the perfect setup for a boot mounted to your Roll Line “DANCE” plate.

5a) If you look at the Plate Sizing chart, you will be given three sizes to mount your boot. Short mount, Nominal/Exact Mount and Long mount. I’m having this problem as we speak.

5b) Since the Roll Line Dance plates come only in full sizes, I can pick either a 160 or a 170 length Roll Line “Dance” Plate. They don’t make a 165 length skate in the Roll Line “Dance” frame. I need the 165 length plate, but they don’t make it. You may run into the same problem when you determine what size Roll Line “DANCE” plate you need for your size of Risport Boots.

6)I don’t think there is anybody in this world that puts a Risport Royal boot on a Roll Line “Dance” plate. You are putting a very stiff “freestyle” boot on the most reactive skate frame made in the world…ie.. the Roll Line “DANCE” plate. But saying all that I think it could work for you. Why? Because I don’t think you will ever push the plate beyond the means it was intended.

6a) What were the intentions of the Roll Line “Dance” plate. Excellent “Dance” plate and mediocre “freestyle” plate.

7) In conclusion I think if you pick up a typical Artistic Boot mounted on a Artistic Rollerskate plate, that the heel of the boot is centered on the rear of the “plate” and the front wheels are equally space across to the “ball” of the foot/boot. So, depending on your particular boot there is a little bit of ‘eyeballing’ to make the mounting of the boot to skate plate as perfect as possible.

But I think all people who know how to mount artistic boots to artistic skate plates are searching for the same placement of boot on the plate. You need to find a person, skate shop or dealer who can mount your skates correctly. A skate shop, person or dealer who knows how to mount artistic boots to artistic frame will probably all mount the boot to the plate the same.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani
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Old April 5th, 2017, 02:12 PM   #4
ipixu78
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Default Artistic quad skate advice.

Thanks a lot for the great advice. I will probably have to travel out of town, even interstate to find a shop that keeps boots in stock and unfortunately they probably only favour one brand so comparison may a problem. It really isn't a problem to get my size, I'm a 43. It's just most stores only stock boots for smaller female feet so there is never an excess of larger sizes on the shelf. The same goes for plates. I guess the Australian market is small and it would be expensive for the smaller shops to keep all sizes available.

As for mounting, I'm quite happy to decide on a specific frame size and forwards/backwards position for my use. It's the lateral mounting of the plate that is my worry. I guess I can get them to mount straight down the centreline as they want and see if pronation is an issue on my dodgy foot. I'll know straight away because the skate will probably not track straight, and so I'll need to get the holes drilled to the left or right a bit. I've only just recently read a comment that only half the number of holes are necessary to be drilled and the other holes can be drilled if the plate ever needs to be shifted, this was in relation to an ice skate so maybe not appropriate for quads...

I am quite interested in the comment about the why I want to put a stiff boot on such a reactive plate. This is a good question, and I have no answer for this. I can only go by what I imagine is happening to the boot/plate. considering I don't even know what a stiff Vs less-stiff boot feels like, it makes it hard(no pun intended). Coming from an inline slalom skate experience my boot has a lot of stiffness in a carbon boot, which transfers power and sensitivity to the frame instantly and very precisely. I imagine a stiff boot on skate plate is going to do the same. I also expect there to be some flexibility, because I can't imagine a skater controlling their plate with a locked ankle, and how would you shoot the duck if there was no flex?.Surely there is still enough flex in the boot to drive the plate and enough adjustment in lacing to tune the support down the ankle. I do wish to advance to tight spins and jumps. So the support seems welcome. Stiffer boots are not as common because they are more expensive due to their engineering and material costs.

So what boots would be best for the dance plate? I'm curious why they don't lock boot types to each frame type if they need to be matched.

These are the kind of technical information I can't find answers to. If I could see breakdowns, sections, of boot design, and feel the boots in person, I might be able to 'feel' the answers to my question. A test drive of a few boot/skate combos would be awesome. Pity the rinks have stopped hiring deluxe skates.

Once again, thanks for your great comments. This forum is wonderful for getting a better picture of things. Thanks for reading.

PS with my 2cents. I dream of the day quad-skate plate engineers learn the value of Nuts and bolts. I think Powerslide now have some derby plates that do this. It's about time we stop needing to drill the boots to mount our wheels to our feet. We could also gain the micro tunability that such a technical sport deserves. A screwdriver is not beyond anyone.
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Old April 5th, 2017, 06:12 PM   #5
inverse137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ipixu78 View Post
So what boots would be best for the dance plate? I'm curious why they don't lock boot types to each frame type if they need to be matched.
Higher end skates aren't sold as a package because advanced skaters have personal preferences. Some skaters like a stiff boot, some like a really soft boot.

As a beginner, I would stick with "the basics" and what works. Wait until your skill set has advanced enough to feel the difference between different setups.

Go with an all-around plate and a mid-level boot and you will get 2-years out of it easy while you develop your skills. Dance specific skates aren't really necessary for bronze level dances. Figure specific plates aren't necessary for beginning figures.

You could buy a $1,700 skate right now and would progress no faster than with a $600 skate at this level.

As for mounting, again, as a beginner, I would mount to centerline only. You're still at the point where body mechanics are going to be way more of an issue than equipment.
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Old April 7th, 2017, 01:21 AM   #6
larryoracing
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Smile Sorry for the long reply. Hope it helps...lol!

Ipixu78,

I am going to assume you are girl skater, from the responses you gave, but if you are not I will tell you what I did.

As far as getting the right size boot and trying one on, I know on a EDEA Boot, it don’t matter if you are boy or a girl…a 275 boot is the same size for girl or boy. Now, the width I get confused on. But I bought a wide 275 girls boot and it gave me the same feeling/wearing the boot as a 275C for a boy. So, its possible boys and girls wear the same length boot but the width might vary a little from boy to girl.

Now on a Riedell boot a girl size 9 is the same as a boy size 8 and I have bought a girls size 9 wide and it fit me fine as a boys size 8 normal width, which I feel is a “C” width In boys.

What I’m saying is a boys and girls boots can both be worn by the same person if you know the difference in boys and girls size/length if there is a difference. With Edea there is no difference in length of the boot. There might be a slight difference in width from girl to boy.

2) Be very careful when you say or hear somebody say an artistic boot should be or is mounted down the center of the boot. If you look at a typical mounting of a artistic boot on a quad plate I think you will find it is not mounted down the center of the boot, but a little bit…maybe ¼ inch or less, probably less to the outside of the boot.

a) If you look at a typical mounting you will see the front wheels are equally space on either side of the “ball” of the boot. Look at a pair of artistic skates and see if you can see what I’m talking about.

Although the front wheels are mounted equally left and right across the “ball” of the boot, the boot center line is not on the center line of the quad plate.

b) We are just saying make sure who ever mounts your boots knows how to mount an artistic boots to an artistic quad plates. It’s not that difficult if you know what you are doing. If it’s your first time you are going to drill multiple holes in the boots until you get a feel for how to mount artistic boots to artistic quad plates. It’s a trial and error method/feeling until you get te hang for how to mount a particular boot to quad roller skating plate. That is why the final mounting is done by eye, although they do make mounting jigs (Synder ) that get you in the ball park for Reidell boots.

3) Finally I have been swaying people away from the Roll Line "DANCE” plate, because I have been told by two other people, three if you count me, that the “Dance” plate should not be used for freestyle/jumps and spins. We feel you are going to hurt/sprang an angle if you try to use this very reactive plate for jumping a spinning. It’s just too loose or wobbly for jumping and spinning. You really want a plate that is less reactive and more stable.

a) So what is a good plate for Jumping and Spinning? A Roll Line “Energy” plate is. That is the plate I use for jumping a spinning. If you ask Rick the Energy plate is/was used by many Dance Champions in the past and maybe in the present?. And if you look on the Roll Line Web page, it will tell you that a Giotto Figure plate is an Energy plate with the toes stop mounting milled off. So the Roll Line Energy plate can be used for Dance, Figures and Freestyle. One plate can do it all. Why is it so good, because it’s a very nominal plate transferring body/ankle actions precisely to the plate.

b) So what is a good plate to use for Dance, Figures and Freestyle? A Roll Line “Energy” plate, Not a Roll Line Dance plate! A Roll Line Dance Plate is good for Dance. That is its specialty.

4) You bring up some interesting questions as to boots and matching to a particular plate.

a) I’m fairly new to these new boots and plates, since coming back to skating after a 40 year layoff. In fact, at the present time I’m not doing a lot of spins and jumps myself. I have been mainly focusing on Dance and Figures. EDEA only makes one boot they label as strictly a “dance” boot. It is called the Flamenco Dance Roller Skating Boot. I think that is interesting to note there are Roller Skating Boots and there are Ice Skating Boots. Ice skating boots usually being the stiffer of the two! A lot stiffer.

Since I’m focusing on Dance I decided to buy the EDEA Flamenco Roller Skating “Dance” Boot. I have one pair on a Roll Line “loop” plates (Ring) and one pair I will mount to the Roll Line Dance Plate. I also have two pairs of Roll Line Dance Plates, 160 Length and 170 since they don’t make a 165 length. I just thought I would mount a Dance Plate to a recommended “Dance” boot.

I’m just following the manufacturer’s instructions for Dance Plates and Dance Boots. In general your boot has a rating of around 85 stiffness and the Dance boot as a rating around 45 stiffness. In general it appears dance boots are cut lower and are a lot more flexible than freestyle boots. I really like them for Dance. And like I said I have a pair on my Roll Line/Ring ‘loop’ skates. On my freestyle skates (Roll Line Energy) I have a pair of Edea Concerto boots and they are stiff and feel very much like tradition freestyle skating boots, which is very stiff…lol! This boot is probably very similar to the boot you want to purchase. It’s just not the recommended boot for a Roll Line “Dance" Plate.

In general even the stiffest boot can be broken in and made to be flexible so one could do a “shoot the duck”. The point is you may not have the strength or will power to break in one of these boots, that’s why they are rated for triples and beyond. Maybe if you are not working on that caliper of boot you don’t need to buy a boot that stiff?????

I ran into that problem at my age of 62 where I bought a freestyle boot that was too stiff and have decided not to use them presently.

b) The Roll Line Dance plate was not made for jumping, if you transfer all that boot action into the plate, you are more capable twisting something/ankle if you land crooked. A more flexible boot on a Flexible/reactive plate gives you the ability to do some really big curves/edges in free skating which lends itself to free dance and sole and team/couples dance like skating moves. None the less what I’m trying to say it’s not a wise idea to do extreme skating/jumping and spinning on the Roll Line Dance Plate. Two other of my colleagues agree/feel the same way.

In a less critical or extreme situation the stiff boot could do amazing things on a reactive plate when the speed is not as extreme. Kind of maximizing low speed maneuvers, but not pushing the plate to an extreme situation that could hurt you, because the plates want to turn so much. So at slow speeds and less extreme jumping maneuvers the stiff boot will be fine. All I’m trying to say is the Dance plate was made for dance and putting a freestyle boot on a Dance plate is using it for not its main purpose or function. Others on this page have the same setup and are happy with the skate plate and stiff boot combo. So it could work for you and be fine. It’s your money and choice and it may work for you?????

c) If you are stopping short of going wild on your skating endeavors, it could work out fine for you as others on this web page are running stiff boots on the Roll Line Dance Plate. I have a set of semi stiff Freestyle boots on the Roll Line Dance plate and I’m afraid to jump on them because I feel I could land crooked and cock the trucks below me and sprang an ankle. If I had softer boot the situation would be worse, because you have more chance to land with a weird angle the ankles and twist something, but in Dance type moves this is what you want. That’s what the boot and plate was made for.

5) I would say it’s critical to get the right length plate for your boot. You don’t just get a close fitting plate and move it back and forth on the boot. The spacing between the axels on the plate is key. And that spacing is matched for your particular boot. Some boots are long and some shorter and affects where the axels fit underneath the boot. So sometimes you will need a longer plate or a shorter plate for a same size boot made by different manufacturer.

Sincerely,

Larry Otani
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