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Old May 22nd, 2013, 04:23 PM   #1
batonstar
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Default Single Axel

I've just started learning the single axel jump. Anyone got any tips to help me perform a reasonable axel and tips for landing it without being tempted to put the free foot down on the floor?
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 05:00 PM   #2
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Jump up. You'll tend to want to jump out. Out will happen. For me, I've found if I step low on the setup I get more height.

Bring the right leg through and up. Like you are trying to bring it to your chest.

Make sure the arms are up and not wrapping below your chest level. I see people "hunch" down into the jump instead of lifting up with the arms. (Guilty of that one when I start getting tired!)

I'm curious....I jump like an 80's skater (arms up,) but what I've been seeing is that the axel is being taught more like ice skating (arms "cocked" at waist level and then thrown forward and up.) Which way are you doing it? I can see the advantages of the ice skating way but I just can't seem to get it to work for me.

Post some video! I just got my axel hitting again a few months ago. It's been a long time since I could land an axel. :-)
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Old May 22nd, 2013, 10:33 PM   #3
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Don't try to rotate the jump. Rotation comes practically by itself if your technique is good. Jump up while keeping straight up and lift your head and rib cage as you jump. This helps to keep you from collapsing in the middle and pitching forward on the landing. I always swung my arms forwards and up until it was as if I was holding a beach ball. Then when I was in the air I would pull my arms into my left shoulder (for ccw rotation).
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Old May 20th, 2014, 09:02 AM   #4
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Smile Jumped my first waltz jump last night. Fantastic...LOL!

And I like the comments by Nostalgic:


Don't try to rotate the jump. Rotation comes practically by itself if your technique is good. Jump up while keeping straight up and lift your head and rib cage as you jump. This helps to keep you from collapsing in the middle and pitching forward on the landing. I always swung my arms forwards and up until it was as if I was holding a beach ball. Then when I was in the air I would pull my arms into my left shoulder (for ccw rotation).



Cracked my A$$ on two. Almost broke my wrist on another. I probably fell 4 times hard, where the floor guards were pretty impressed. They said "you should be hurting tomorrow...LOL!"

And like what Ancient1 said on another post, "freestyle skaters don't worry about falling and hurting themselves, they get back up and try to figure out what they did wrong...lol!" So true "wise one".

I probably landed 7. But what I was trying to do, was land with my free leg in front and trying to jump as high as I could to get the hang time needed in a double.

I'm only jumping in preparation for a double. I figure after about 100 waltz jumps I will move onto the single axel, with the intention of some day of doing a double. I would like to see if I can do a double axel again at 60 years old...LOL!

I will say this. I should not be able to do a waltz jump. My legs are not strong enough for the landing, but these quadruple rated Jackson freestyle boots are so stiff, that if you are close to the landing you can't fall. The boots will not let you fall down and hold your landing leg/body up. If you get off axis the boots cannot help you. You will fall down and crash hard.

I also realized that jumping in these boots are what they are made for. They are like two giant springs, and once you compress the boots they want to expand like a big spring and help you jump up. Kind of a amazing feature in the design of the boot.

Even the tongue of the boot is laced in a wire mesh that compress and builds up energy only to be released when you jump upwards.

Larry O

It has been two months and I finally got the urge to jump. It was fantastic. I was really happy. Just what I needed to stay motivated.
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Old May 21st, 2014, 09:26 AM   #5
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Smile This has got to be the greatest video on the Axel.

I love this video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mFGLGFv8Mu0


This is what it's all about. If you are not going to do it right. Don't even attempt it. It's not worth the falls.

Larry O
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Old May 24th, 2014, 03:17 AM   #6
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Smile Tips for doing the Axel, by Larry O

From Batonstar May 22, 2013

I've just started learning the single axel jump. Anyone got any tips to help me perform a reasonable axel and tips for landing it without being tempted to put the free foot down on the floor?


From Nostalgic., May 22, 2013

Don't try to rotate the jump. Rotation comes practically by itself if your technique is good. Jump up while keeping straight up and lift your head and rib cage as you jump. This helps to keep you from collapsing in the middle and pitching forward on the landing. I always swung my arms forwards and up until it was as if I was holding a beach ball. Then when I was in the air I would pull my arms into my left shoulder (for ccw rotation).



1) I was thinking about how to cheat this jump/make it very easy so I would not fall down and go boom!

2) So I played with this jump in the parking lot as I was walking to my car.

3) I just tried to rotate very easily into the axel and found without even trying you could rotate 1 revolution and land on the RIF foot, facing forward.

a) Then it hit me. This is exactly how you do a waltz jump.

b) You throw the waltz jump into the air with the RIF foot, and then just before you land you twist the foot onto the ROB landing.

4) The axel is no different than the waltz jump, except for that one little easy revolution before you twist the RIF foot onto the ROB landing.

5) To me this was a milestone in thinking and made thinking about landing an axel so very easily.

6) Next, in a few months or a few days, I will have to try my theory out.

7) The key is don’t over do the jump. Just take it nice and slow on the 1st revoltion and then land like a waltz jump on the ROB foot.

8) If you try to hard you will fall on your a$$.

a) I noticed this on all the Waltz jumps I did the other day. If I just tryed to throw the waltz jump easily, I landed it. I did 8 waltz jumps with no problem on the landing.

b) If I tried to throw it with all my might, I fell on my A$$. I was trying to hard. Take it easy. Make it look easy. The waltz jump is easy. Make the axel just like the waltz jump except for that one easy slow rotation just before the landing on the ROB foot.

c) As Nostalgic said, the rotation will come easily if you have good technique.

d) The technic is to throw the axel like a waltz jump with one very easy single rotation before the landing.

Larry O
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Old May 27th, 2014, 06:45 AM   #7
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Smile Practiced 2 hrs off skates on the single axel today !

I saw all the posts today but I decided to talk about what I was working on...lol! Kind of greedy I know...lol!

1) Well, my view has changed on the axel. I tried to cheat this jump and make it easy. It was not going to work that way.I had to really go for it. I had to really jump the axel up and out, like you were reaching for the sky.


2) I finally got it. I jumped like I was trying to touch the ceiling, but I realized I had to land going backwards. So I I gave it all I had to jump up and keep the body going forward, and when I got to the top of the jump, I could flip it around and land going backwards. I never took my concentration off where the right foot was. I think this is why I didn't fall. I always landed on the right foot.

I also tried to jump this jump square at takeoff, not trying to twist it around, but up and outwards. I wanted to complete the first revolution going forward, leaving the last half for the landing going backwards. It worked, but it took everything I had to do it. Slowly but slowly I cheated the jump less and less until I could land the jump on the right foot going backwards/off skates. I imagined I was rolling when I did this jump off skates. It gave me perspective and it felt like I was on skates..ie... the feeling.

a) I kept doing this until I was completely tired and my legs ached. I had enough. I knew if I did any more I would hurt myself, fall down and break or injure something. Time to quit. Good practice off skates.


b) I will do this for a few more days. But I was able to complete the 1.5 revolutions without cheating, landing backwards and completing the jump.

c) It was really satisfying, but I really had to jump high with all my might, to get the coordination to complete all revolutions and land backwards.


Sincerely,

Larry O
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Old July 4th, 2014, 04:14 AM   #8
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Smile Thinking about the axel jump?

Thinking about the axel jump.

I came upon a startling discovery the other day.

Every time I go to a skating rink, I get the same old feeling.

I think it is a feeling I had as a youth also.

1)You against the skating floor/surface.

2) It’s so vast/the floor. You skate onto it, when nobody is around and it’s just you and the floor.

3) It doesn’t take much balance to skate and roll across the skating surface. It’s almost effortless.

4) Then why is it so hard to jump, twirl in the air and land one foot going backwards?

5) I got to think about the waltz jump. Why is that jump so easy? Why can I jump this jump and not get scared.

a) I realized it was because I knew I could jump the rotation jump effortlessly and land backwards after the revolution. You didn’t have to think much about it and the jump was so easy, it was easy to get height, you could virtually jump the waltz jump as high as you wanted and as far/distance as you wanted to travel.

6) SO WHAT MAKES THE AXEL SO HARD OR DIFFERENT?

7) I realized then the beauty of the axel jump. You have to have enough confidence in the jump, to be able to jump it as high as needed to get the full 1.5 revolutions and be in perfect control of your body, just like the waltz jump, so when you finish the revolutions, you could come down on one leg and skate backwards, just like the waltz jump.

There is no difference except one is a little harder, needs more strength and stamina to perform the jump. But everything else is the same. The take off, the rotation and the landing after the completion of the rotations.

8) Then I realized the beauty of the axel jump. If you don’t have this confidence you could never do the jump/like the waltz jump/free/lots of height and distance traveled.

9) Now I knew my fear and why I feared doing this axel jump.

10) As a youth I had mastered the control of my body. I could do the 1.5 revolutions in my sleep. I had great height and I could leap the axel out into space, cover great distance and perform the jump and land on one foot going backwards, because I had complete confidence and all the necessary body control and position/control of the feet also.

11) Now that I knew this, I also knew what I had to do, to do this jump on the skating surface.

12) You must have complete control of this jump to jump it into the air, complete the 1.5 revolutions and land it on one foot going backwards. If you cannot do this jump in this fashion, you will cheat, you will slow the jump down (spot jumping), cheat either the takeoff or landing or both. It’s from a lack of confidence, skill and everything else that makes a jump exciting and hard to do. Axel jumps are not easy and double axel are even more difficult.

A) As I watched the ice skating girls do the triple axel, I realized some that got amazing height. Others could spin like a top and complete the 3.5 revolutions with less height.

But all went into the jump with only one thing in mind. They were going to land it. Lack that confidence and the skills, ie…power and muscles and you will never be able to do a waltz, axel, double axel or triple axel completely, with confidence with height or correct rotations.

13) So the key in doing the axel, is having enough fortitude to launch this jump into the air, like a waltz jump, but high enough and with enough force to force the 1.5 revolutions, having enough control in the air, knowing where you are at all times to land on that ROB foot and complete the jump.

14) This revolution in thinking made the jump much easier in my mind. You had to be able to perform this jump in your mind or off skates before you could ever attempt and complete this jump during the real thing on the skating surface. That is why I got so scared as I thought about this jump skating across the floor. You had to get the courage and you had to know what was needed or expected to peform this jump. Get that and now the jump is almost mastered before you even jump. But you had to have this confidence first. Practicing off skated or doing preliminary jumps before the axel all helps in building the muscles needed to perform the axel, double axel, etc.

a) And really what the axel, waltz jump or double axel is all about is performing a jump in the air, jumping off a flat edge into space with enough height and power and rotation to perform the jump.

You can’t cheat this jump, you can’t take it easy, you must attack it with fortitude and knowledge and power. Be it the axel, triple axel, double axel or waltz jump all are performed by jumping/doing the feat in the air.

You must jump it, you can’t expect to get some miraculous rotations by pressing the ROF edge going into the jump/at take off. The jump is derived by you jumping off a flat edge into space, spinning in the air (the angular momemtum derived at take off) and then stopping the jump in the air and landing on the Right foot going backwards.

Larry O
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Old July 4th, 2014, 08:08 AM   #9
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Wow, that's a huge amount of information!
I'm a long way off attempting one, but it was interesting and informative none the less. I think I finally understand about cheating the take off now too.
Thanks for taking the time to write it all
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Old July 5th, 2014, 08:08 PM   #10
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Larry,
Exactly! Know your jump and as I have mentioned many times before, do it in your head over and over again. When you do the jump, know you can do the jump and just do it.
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Old July 6th, 2014, 10:02 AM   #11
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Smile Well Derrick I'm glad you thought the post useful.

Your welcome. Sad to say, it's one thing to talk about it and another to actually perform the jump in the real.

I'm hoping the next time I go skating I will have enough rest in my legs to actually jump it.

You are right Ancient1, I really need to work to get this jump well performed off skates before I will be able to do it on. If it were easy, everybody would be doing it. Thank you for the advice.

Sincerely,

Larry O
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Old July 6th, 2014, 12:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post
Your welcome. Sad to say, it's one thing to talk about it and another to actually perform the jump in the real.

I'm hoping the next time I go skating I will have enough rest in my legs to actually jump it.

You are right Ancient1, I really need to work to get this jump well performed off skates before I will be able to do it on. If it were easy, everybody would be doing it. Thank you for the advice.

Sincerely,

Larry O
Like it seems you are Larry, I'm thinking through what I want to perform all the time. Performing it is another matter. It takes me a lot of dry practice to make baby steps on the skating floor.
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Old July 7th, 2014, 11:51 AM   #13
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Smile Derrick we are in the same boat.

Like it seems you are Larry, I'm thinking through what I want to perform all the time. Performing it is another matter. It takes me a lot of dry practice to make baby steps on the skating floor.

1) You are doing the right things...i.e..practicing off skates before attempting the jump with skates on.

a) You are correct on your analysis.


2) There is no hurry here and by trying to jump when you are not ready only leads to disaster where you will hurt yourself and put yourself out of commission.


a) Nobody cares about your jumping or mine, so the smart thing to do is take all the precautions, practice off skates and be ready when you actually jump on skates.

b) I think with our attitude we should do just fine. And hopefully some day I can show a video.


Larry O and god bless and thanks for the correspondence.
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Old July 8th, 2014, 03:55 PM   #14
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Here's a decent article about what happens when figure skaters land and how much force comes down with them.

http://gizmodo.com/sensors-show-figu...-we-1526842854

Enjoy
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Old July 9th, 2014, 01:50 AM   #15
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Smile Side Winder, thankyou so much for the video. Larry O

Side Winder, thank you for the video. It is excellent!
I learned so much!

1) I could not figure out why I’m so sore after practicing jumping for just an hour off skates. Now I know why. I’m putting incredible forces not only on my body, but my legs and angles when I jump off skates.

2) Even after jumping simple waltz jumps with skates on, about 10 of them my body is sore the next day and I did not even fall, once…LOL!

3) The other day I only skated 5.5 hours out of a 10 hour, all night skate session. I could not walk for 3 days. It took three days to recover. My body and legs were in that much pain. A lot of jumping and spinning throughout the night.

4) Even from my 1 hour of jumping an axel off skates about a month ago, my angle is still swollen. It may never go down in size. There is just a lot of forces, 5-8 times my body wt, which is 165 lbs being driven and twisted into my ankle as I land a jump.

5) This is up to 1320 lbs of force driven into that ankle every time I jump and land. Not only that, but just imagine that twisting action going into your tendons in the knee when you fall down and twist your legs up into your knees caps, when you fall.


Jumping is dangerous and more critical when you get older. I’m not that fat or heavy but I’m probably carrying an extra 30lbs. Trying jumping off skates with a 30 lb lead plate held next to your stomach and now twisting all that weight into one leg, your landing leg/ankle as you land a jump.

And I forgot the mention the skates. They weigh about 9 lbs. That is significant. 9lbs X 8 = 72 lbs of extra force, just from the weight of your skates.

That is a total 1392lbs of force driven into one ankle as you land, 10-12 times for me in one evening.

And maybe 1320 lbs driven into my ankle 20 times if I practice off skates.

Here's a decent article about what happens when figure skaters land and how much force comes down with them.

http://gizmodo.com/sensors-show-figu...-we-1526842854

Enjoy


Larry O
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Old July 9th, 2014, 10:18 AM   #16
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larry 5 1/2 hours of anything is a lot and something i am sure most people arent use to, also being away from something so long and skating that long will certainly make you sore and feel like a much older person afterwards.

i remember when i was in martial arts, stretching over and over again in the beginning was so much work and different for my body that i was sore for 3 weeks.
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Old July 13th, 2014, 12:13 AM   #17
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People tend to overtrain. The rule in running is 10% increase. So if you run 10 miles a week you don't jump to 20.

Skating uses a lot of muscles just to balance. I'd just be careful not to progress to fast. This is something I'll be telling myself after I get cleared to come back to both running and skating.
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Old July 17th, 2014, 12:11 AM   #18
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Smile Take it easy old timers...Larry O

Larry, 5 1/2 hours of anything is a lot and something I am sure most people aren’t use to, also being away from something so long and skating that long will certainly make you sore and feel like a much older person afterwards.

I remember when I was in martial arts, stretching over and over again in the beginning was so much work and different for my body that I was sore for 3 weeks.
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Dear Rick,
I’m learning when you get older the body doesn’t recuperate as fast, but it does recuperate.

Many years ago, when I was skating 1970 or so, the RSROA was big into the Jerry Lewis Telethon/Skate-a-thon/Muscular Dystrophy. It was common to skate for 24 hours. All rinks pushed this activity. You would skate 50 minutes and then rest 10 minutes. You would do this for 24 hours. It brought great recognition to the skaters as an association and group and it brought thousands of dollars to Jerry Lewis telethon.

So when I tried to skate just 5.5 hours of a normal 10 hour session, I was surprised at 60 years old, I could not do it. It just taught me how old I am. And as I said no adults participated in this activity. I was the only one. Some people never grow up….LOL!

________________________________________
People tend to overtrain. The rule in running is 10% increase. So if you run 10 miles a week you don't jump to 20.

Skating uses a lot of muscles just to balance. I'd just be careful not to progress to fast. This is something I'll be telling myself after I get cleared to come back to both running and skating.



The thing I worry about is jumping and spinning. Although dancing and figure skating I’m sure gets you tired. My body is totally sore the next day from only doing waltz jumps and single mapes and upright spins, during session.

Then I realized I’m probably one of only a few people in the whole United States that is jumping and spinning at the ripe old age of 60 years old. This is where I get into trouble. Nobody has my experience and is experiencing or trying to experience what I'm going through and that includes the skates, boots, wheels and the jumps and spins. It took me a while to figure this out. I couldn't figure out why people where so confused or mad at what I was posting about. Most had never did what I did. Roller skating had digressed so that nobody in California and really the US was in the Senior, Junior, Freshman or Sophomore singles freestyle division and the same could be said about dance...WOW what a education/realization. Then everybody was acting like they knew so much about artistic skating. In my eyes Artistic Skating was dead and no longer existed.

Sincerely,

Larry O
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Old July 17th, 2014, 10:51 AM   #19
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Larry i totally understand, i tore my achilles tendon at 53 playing basketball, havent played yet. i waited too long and didnt have surgery but it healed on its own in time, could barely walk for 6 months lol.

your so right it takes much longer as you get older to heal and i think the injurys tend to be more severe also. now i only do things in moderation.

i didnt realize you were 60, i was thinking in the 50s not a lot of difference these days. i am now 65 and i wouldnt even attempt those things anymore as before u would do it without even thinking of it.

good luck and do it for pleasure and exercise but dont overdue it. if you wanted to compete i would say good luck but only compete in dance or figures.
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Old July 19th, 2016, 09:18 AM   #20
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Smile I don't know if anybody is practicing the axel?

And I have seen a few people on this forum post their axels and it's always great to see the jump actually being performed by someone, but.....


I'm getting closer to trying to perform the Axel. Last week I tried a few and they were very, very bad. They were really sad looking. I didn't have the guts to throw the Axel and I kind of wimped into the jump very, very slow and tried to spin/rotate it very fast just a few inches off the ground with my skates on at the rink. Well, I got the rotation but was bent all over and landing on my left foot and reaching for the ground. It was really sad.

So, I have been practicing the jump off skates with not much luck. Then I got this revelation, to get very good balance over the left skate and jump straight up and wow, I almost got one off, off skates.

This reminds me of when I do a loop jump on skates. I have been practicing them quite regularly on skates. And I have noticed you don't have to skate fast, but you do need to be on perfect balance on the ROB before you throw the loop jump. The more you feel perfectly over you ROB when doing the loop jump the easier it is.

Same thing for the axel off skates. If I can just place the weight perfectly on top of the ROF when I jump the axel it will spin/rotate very easily and I'm almost there. I can almost do this jump off skates, easily. It's all about balance and being perfectly over the top of the ROF and jumping straight up.

More to come. And happy jumping.

Larry O
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