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Speed Skating Forum Most of the discussions in this forum will be about inline speed skating but discussions about ice speed skating and quad roller speed skating are also welcome.

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Old August 2nd, 2018, 01:09 PM   #21
romekjagoda
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Shesk8, thanks for the advice. I really appreciate boiling it down to one focus point, as otherwise the number of aspects gets overwhelming.
I will focus on that in the next day.
As regards the vid I haven't yet had the opportunity to do so, but should be able to make it next week as I am leaving for a skate camp where there should be some opportunities and people to ask for help with this.
I will certainly do it, I know it's the best method for progression.
Cheers.
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Old August 2nd, 2018, 04:28 PM   #22
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As I read the thread it became apparent that it's easy to get lost in the minute mechanics of the push. Over-thinking can work to ones detriment. Every time I teach I realize folks are sometimes overwhelmed. So, breaking things down to their simplest components, and focusing on those individually (via repetitive drills to instill body memory) will help when putting it all back together.

Like studying piano, you first learn the notes, then compose a song.

Good luck with your camp.

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Old August 3rd, 2018, 11:46 AM   #23
romekjagoda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shesk8 View Post
Have you posted a vid of your DP? maybe that will help us and others to give you better insight.
Yesterday evening I asked someone to capture a few glimpses of me skating. I know this is very short and poor quality + not following me (stationary), but at the moment this is the best I have. I hope to improve over the next week when in the skate camp, but this video may be a point to start.

https://youtu.be/Fzaz096SQ9w

Any thoughts welcome.
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Old August 3rd, 2018, 05:36 PM   #24
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it's hard to tell from the vid but your weight seem static on the 2nd(traditional) push. the double push requires 2 pushes. in other words I'm not seeing you compress your weight when setting up the 2nd push, but rather your weight seem to be transferring across without compression, then you're using the push off extended leg to get over to the new set down skate - which is why both skates momentarily appear on the ground simultaneously. the 2nd push should be deep and powerful, pushing down to the ground, not out. maybe try work on single-footed up/down rolling glides, on just 1 foot, then advance this to carving drills on one foot: under-pushing(outer edge) and outer-pushing(inner edge) on 1 foot. you should feel that you have to reload the push each time to accelerate yourself forward. another way to approach this is the 2 footed slalom, then work towards alternating one-footed slalom.
to keep it honest do these on a slight uphill. eddy metzger has some great drill footage of these drills, google him.

another good drill is a basic fall-over push. set it up from basic, then compress weight onto one leg, then allow the opposing hip to lead you over in the transfer, bring the knee straight up from recovery leg, and while keeping the knee bent and foot shadowed under the hip, allow yourself to fall over... then catch yourself at very last second on the set down. set down with the foot/leg "inside the box" as over-extending the set down will result in 2 footed landing(bad habit). these make great dry-land drills, too. will defer to eddy on that one as well.

hard to explain in this stuff in words, you're almost there, but keep at it! the foot looks really straight, I can see you are focusing on that. when you leg whip, no need to over-do it, it's used more to help a skater rotate towards outer edge. cognitive , subtle hip and shoulder rotation (steering the upper body) work to achieve this as well. drive the recovery knee/leg straight on thru. keep in mind there is an arc component that occurs from this carving, but too much arc can actually slow your forward momentum. think about an "A" frame stance and how we use it to slow our pace - a one footed "A" frame, will set the skate more perpendicular position to direction of travel and that will stall your speed. so one needs to get off that skate (while it's straight) in order not to cancel out the speed you just generated.

adding Vid of DP with Bart Swings. A few key observations you'll notice: he does not leg-whip, as he does not need to in order to get to the outer edge. rather he steer his body with subtle hip & shoulder rotation; he leads the transfer with his hip; his feet are parallel on the set down/exchange. other vids do not show the dp as clean as Barts. slow the vids as you watch, and you'll see lots of setting down outside the box, and feet pointed in two dif directions, ankle collapsing, two-footed skating, etc. which results from foreshortened 2nd push. As one example, you can see horton's hip is not leading and never gets it outside his knee on the set down(that is referred to as setting down outside ht box). as result he almost sets down inner edge (in some strides) then whips himself over to the outer edge using the remaining finishing push of the other skate(having to two-foot the transition). you'll see the skate barely comes around to the 2nd push before he's already having to get off it...timing and cadence. outer edge is a very vulnerable place for skaters. some food for thought.

link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xTHvlyW6aBo

hoping some of this you'll find helpful.
happy rolling!

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Last edited by shesk8; August 4th, 2018 at 04:27 PM.
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Old August 31st, 2018, 04:09 AM   #25
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The video is very short, but when you are transferring to the recovery leg, you rotating and the hips and pointing your shoulders at a angle. Your shoulders need to stay square with the line of travel as well as parallel to the ground. Any rotating or twisting causes loss of power transfer to the ground. Get a deeper squat. Get so deep that you fall backward. Then just rise a little😊. One of the most important things is to allow your hip to fall past the point where you set the recovery foot down before the under push. Otherwise you may not get on the outside edge of the wheel.
I've seen different styles of the under push. Some that sit real low can get almost a pull with the recovery leg utilizing the adductors. But most common is just a slight extension of the knee while carving the skate on the outside edge of the wheels. Don't be afraid of the "zig zag". Use that to allow your hip to fall over. Skate on top of a line on the road and try to carve your skate across and back over the line. Swinging you arms lightly might help keep you from pointing you shoulders at least until you learn to lock in your core.
I prolly just totally confused you. Good luck.
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