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Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

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Old August 22nd, 2012, 09:27 AM   #1
Jinx
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Hi all.. I'm formerly from the Quad skate forum. I wanted to say hi and just give a little novel about me and my thoughts here..

I'm 34, a little bit overweight but not bad...I started getting back into skating about 3 years ago. Had the doc build me a couple pairs of skates, i've been on a custom build the past 2 years, Its a bont speed boot with Roll-line Navigators plates, at the recommendation of the old manager (no longer there) at the rink i skate at.


Anyways In those skates, somewhere along the line, i saw a few people (who were not really artistic skaters) do some simple little things like waltz jumps and so i started to toy around with them since i can do 180 jumps on both feet pretty well. Well i'm no pro with this waltz jump thing, but that old manager of the rink (who goes by the name of Joshua Rhoads) was showing me some basics like how to try to keep my back straight, a mapes i think it was called, and the salchow (which i'm very terrible at both). ANYWAYS i've started trying to push myself a little more each time and I think I might kind of like this stuff.. I'm not really much better than when i started learning a year ago, but i keep trying.

I've recently been loaned a more artistic style boot (which is hard as heck inside, and not that comfortable, i think its a reidell?) with some Sure grip century plates (which dont hold a candle to my Nav's) and someone else happened to have a pair of roll line giotto's wheels laying around so i threw em together and created a rough artistic boot.. I've found that somehow I feel i have a tiny bit more confidence in this boot. As akward as it is to skate, I feel like my little waltz jump i can take at a slightly faster speed.. I've also kind of started to learn to whip my body around a little faster. Although i'm a dissapointed when i see a video of me doing it since a waltz jump is pretty small and not much turning. I know i'm not ready for more yet, I cant even do a full rotation in my bare feet without tipping over. But I think the heel in these loaned boots help some how... I cant explain it, i just feel a bit more straight, not a lot, but something helps.


Anyways I hope lots of questions wont be too annoying here, espically beginner questions like What is this edge thing and how do i start practicing it? or, How the heck do these people get 1-2 feet off the ground, i jump as hard as i can and i only get about 2 inches! or How the heck do i launch higher up with my jump ANd get a fast spin, cuz i feel like i can either do one or the other, but not both!... Those kinds of things..

Just a skater who likes to skate, but being able to do some of these cool things with my body would feel pretty invigorating to me. Right now my Goal is a single axel and a Loop jump. All i'm practicing though is small waltz jumps at various speeds without falling over, and right foot 2 wheel counter-clock pivots (whatever those are called). I always kind of lean to the side when i turn from backwards to fowards....

Anyways Thanks for reading, I applaud all of your for being able to do this stuff and hope I can learn some too.
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 11:37 AM   #2
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well being taught by Josh was a good thing, hes been a us champion many of times over and been to worlds many many times.

the edges are on each wheel, inner and outer edges and forward and back edges. you get them by pressing on the similar parts of your foot.

to get off the grown more its hard to say without seeing how your doing it now. but u need to bend your take off knee a bit and lift your other leg up after toeing off with the toe stop or doing an edge jump. you also need to use your hands and arms and bring them up and into the chest area. watch some of the videos on here and on youtube and you will see how it should be done.

the art boots look like old 297s and they will give you more support and confidence in jumping, the heel also helps as it puts you a bit forward and is better for spins also. remember it is designed for art skating. good luck
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 12:45 PM   #3
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Thanks! I'm thinking if the boot helps me get much better form (i dont even use my upper body at all yet, like arms are all over the place, my jump is hardly a jump, more like a skip, i'm VERY rudimentary right now its ugly, i'll post a video). But if i like the support, Is there a slightly more comfortable boot I could look into? (i love how my bont has a foam rubbery insert and makes me able to stand on it for hours, but these reidels just have a peice of super hard leather or something in there feels like i'm standing on a wood floor.. I dont wana spend 500 bucks on a pair, but if there is a good pair that are comfy and good for what i wana do, i wouldn't mind suggestions... I'm thinking of mounting a roll line Mariner cup or Mistral (gonna find out if the 100 dollar difference is really just the machined out part in the middle) cuz i LOVE my roll line plate on my bont.
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Old August 22nd, 2012, 01:46 PM   #4
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Thanks! I'm thinking if the boot helps me get much better form (i dont even use my upper body at all yet, like arms are all over the place, my jump is hardly a jump, more like a skip, i'm VERY rudimentary right now its ugly, i'll post a video). But if i like the support, Is there a slightly more comfortable boot I could look into? (i love how my bont has a foam rubbery insert and makes me able to stand on it for hours, but these reidels just have a peice of super hard leather or something in there feels like i'm standing on a wood floor.. I dont wana spend 500 bucks on a pair, but if there is a good pair that are comfy and good for what i wana do, i wouldn't mind suggestions... I'm thinking of mounting a roll line Mariner cup or Mistral (gonna find out if the 100 dollar difference is really just the machined out part in the middle) cuz i LOVE my roll line plate on my bont.
rolline plate will be better, but the boot should be ok once you get use to it, will cost big bucks to get any other decent boot.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 12:45 AM   #5
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Wow so any of these roll line boots i see in their catalog for 200-400 are just crap? When the time comes is there any brand that will be more comfortable for me? (i tend to have a slightly wider Toe box, which is why i never bought reidell speed skates, they cramp my foot up, i'm not a witch i dont have pointed toe box).

Here's a video of my waltz jump where i've been trying to 'whip' my upper body around quicky, it feels so fast to me when i do it, but when i watch this video, it looks soooo feeble...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAAXvj069fM
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 03:54 AM   #6
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When you step from backward to forward try not to let the right arm stay "behind" you. Make that L with your arms....left arm in front, right arm out to side.

If you leave the right arm behind you (left arm in front, right arm pointing back) you are actually blocking the rotation.

And check the landing. You have to check to stop the rotation or you are just going to keep going around.

Try it off skates: stand on two feet, make the L, jump up, arms come in, do a single rotation, check to stop the rotation.

The other trick I've found that works is you should almost be able to do a two-foot-spin just by getting the arm motion right. Make the L pull the hands in...you should spin on two feet.

As for boots....I just think you can't go wrong with Harlick. But not cheap. I've heard good things about Edea but I've never tried them. And, yeah, Roll-line plates are the way to go. Stay away from Roll-line wheels though. They are expensive and I flat them like crazy. I just switched to Komplex wheels about a month ago....WOW is all I can say about Komplex.

Oh...and you want to jump high? ;-) OK, stand on 2 feet in front of a bench or something similar. Jump straight up onto the bench (arms come in like on a jump, back is straight like on a jump, NO BENDING AT THE WAIST.) Now repeat that 50 times 3-4 times a week. You will get those monster jumps doing that drill.

And keep posting those videos!!
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 10:15 AM   #7
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When you step from backward to forward try not to let the right arm stay "behind" you. Make that L with your arms....left arm in front, right arm out to side.

If you leave the right arm behind you (left arm in front, right arm pointing back) you are actually blocking the rotation.

And check the landing. You have to check to stop the rotation or you are just going to keep going around.

Try it off skates: stand on two feet, make the L, jump up, arms come in, do a single rotation, check to stop the rotation.

The other trick I've found that works is you should almost be able to do a two-foot-spin just by getting the arm motion right. Make the L pull the hands in...you should spin on two feet.

As for boots....I just think you can't go wrong with Harlick. But not cheap. I've heard good things about Edea but I've never tried them. And, yeah, Roll-line plates are the way to go. Stay away from Roll-line wheels though. They are expensive and I flat them like crazy. I just switched to Komplex wheels about a month ago....WOW is all I can say about Komplex.

Oh...and you want to jump high? ;-) OK, stand on 2 feet in front of a bench or something similar. Jump straight up onto the bench (arms come in like on a jump, back is straight like on a jump, NO BENDING AT THE WAIST.) Now repeat that 50 times 3-4 times a week. You will get those monster jumps doing that drill.

And keep posting those videos!!

Lots of great info here! i will have to try all of that. When I try to jump with just shoes/socks on with both feet into the air and do a full 360 I dont quite make it all the way around (haven't tried your arm stuff YET tho) and i usually am bending at some point cuz i can feel totally off axis when i land like i'm going to fall over.

I will try the bench thing at some point, so i can kneel down as long as i keep my back straight?

for the boots, it sounds like reidells are not the king of the boots in artistic then? Are these other brands more comfy? I May stick with this one if its going to be too expensive to get something else, i just have slightly wider feet. But I HAVE to have a roll-line plate i just love em.

The thing about wheels.. I think the artist club at my rink skates on em, one of the skaters (his name is kelly, i dont know his last name, he's a friend of josh's) he had em and loved them at first, then 3-4 weeks later i asked him again and he told me he totally flat spotted them badly, and was going back to roll-lines.. So i'm not sure anymore these giotto's were loaned to me, with the understanding i may buy them from him for 70-80 bucks eventually, but for now he's letting me just use them, and its the only thing i have besides another pair of canibals.. Remember I was into speed skatin before, so i'm lucky to have had all this stuff loaned to me (been jobless for 4 years now). But i'm in the process of selling everything I own (which is all mostly junk, but should fetch me enough for a pair of roll line mariners or mistrals and maybe a not to uncomfortable boot.. (tho i have no clue how i'd ever be able to test it before i buy it).

thank you for all your advice guys.. I may never get that great, but I like the sight of some of this stuff and to be able to accomplish it will be very nice for me.

I'm currently trying to follow the advice in this video as she seems to set it out pretty well step by step, i figure if i practiced each step enough, i might eventually be able to do this in my bare feet soon? (though i do understand this might be for ICE skating, and may not translate over to roller?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DMcNqlw7Wk
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 11:34 AM   #8
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Wow so any of these roll line boots i see in their catalog for 200-400 are just crap? When the time comes is there any brand that will be more comfortable for me? (i tend to have a slightly wider Toe box, which is why i never bought reidell speed skates, they cramp my foot up, i'm not a witch i dont have pointed toe box).

Here's a video of my waltz jump where i've been trying to 'whip' my upper body around quicky, it feels so fast to me when i do it, but when i watch this video, it looks soooo feeble...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAAXvj069fM
dont let your left shoulder go behind you when you land, check your jump with your left hand in front after the check and right shoulder back.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 11:37 AM   #9
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the axle info on the video is pretty good and the same for roller.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 11:53 AM   #10
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It's not my stuff for sale, and I honestly don't know much of anything about art wheels, but I did post a link on the Quad/eBay forum to someone on eBay selling a fair number of old art wheels. Most of 'em still bidding in the $10 range. Including some All Americans and several others.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 07:04 PM   #11
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Lots of great info here! i will have to try all of that. When I try to jump with just shoes/socks on with both feet into the air and do a full 360 I dont quite make it all the way around (haven't tried your arm stuff YET tho) and i usually am bending at some point cuz i can feel totally off axis when i land like i'm going to fall over.

I will try the bench thing at some point, so i can kneel down as long as i keep my back straight?

for the boots, it sounds like reidells are not the king of the boots in artistic then? Are these other brands more comfy? I May stick with this one if its going to be too expensive to get something else, i just have slightly wider feet. But I HAVE to have a roll-line plate i just love em.

The thing about wheels.. I think the artist club at my rink skates on em, one of the skaters (his name is kelly, i dont know his last name, he's a friend of josh's) he had em and loved them at first, then 3-4 weeks later i asked him again and he told me he totally flat spotted them badly, and was going back to roll-lines.. So i'm not sure anymore these giotto's were loaned to me, with the understanding i may buy them from him for 70-80 bucks eventually, but for now he's letting me just use them, and its the only thing i have besides another pair of canibals.. Remember I was into speed skatin before, so i'm lucky to have had all this stuff loaned to me (been jobless for 4 years now). But i'm in the process of selling everything I own (which is all mostly junk, but should fetch me enough for a pair of roll line mariners or mistrals and maybe a not to uncomfortable boot.. (tho i have no clue how i'd ever be able to test it before i buy it).

thank you for all your advice guys.. I may never get that great, but I like the sight of some of this stuff and to be able to accomplish it will be very nice for me.

I'm currently trying to follow the advice in this video as she seems to set it out pretty well step by step, i figure if i practiced each step enough, i might eventually be able to do this in my bare feet soon? (though i do understand this might be for ICE skating, and may not translate over to roller?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8DMcNqlw7Wk
On the off-skates 360 jump, once you get the upper body rotating correctly it will go around. You're just at that point where you will eventually have that "oh yeah" moment.

With the jumping drill, you want your back straight like it would be for an actual jump. You want to squat down a little and jump. You won't be squatting down to a speed position (quads parallel to floor) but like a natural jumping bend. And it's not a slow jump. It should be the same "explosive" jump as a skating jump.

Regarding wheels, if you asked me to rank them I would probably say Komplex and then Roll-line. I like Roll-line wheels but they just wear REALLY fast, they flat extremely easily and they are expensive.

On the axel video, this is a preference thing.... I went to a freestyle clinic in January and they were teaching an axel the "ice skating way" where the hands come down towards the waste and you throw them up and forward. I just couldn't do it... Now, I gave it a month of trying this "ice skating way" and it just doesn't work for me so I went back to the "roller skating way" or maybe it's the old-school-roller-skating-way. Your results may very.

The axel is a jump you are REALLY going to want to work off-skates a lot!!

The things I do for my legs to get them strong are: The jumping drill, speed position drill (feet shoulder width apart, squat to where quads are parallel to floor, back up, hold for x amount of time.) Lunges (step forward, back knee almost touching ground directly behind front foot, step forward and reverse.) I also try to do a lot of core work: planks, sit-ups, etc. You really need a strong core to jump.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 07:19 PM   #12
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Hey Great Note, and good replies.

If you really like Art Stuff then you have to have an Art Skate Set Up. If you did like Quad speed then you have to set up very differently from Art..

It is all about what "you" like to do when on skates. Nothing is bad with any set up since it is all about what "you" like when on wheels.

Sometimes you are a switch hitter and you like more than one skate style. So you have two skate set_ups or maybe three, , ,

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 07:58 PM   #13
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Hey Jinx, just curious...what size do you wear? I have a pair of Harlicks that I don't really use. I think I used them for about 6-months. I wear a 9 -9.5 street shoe and I think these harlicks are a 10.5. The Harlicks I wear all the time are an 11. For reference, my speed skates are Luiginno Ultra Challenge size 11/43.

Harlick will tell you to run 1 size larger but the Harlick size 11 fit me the best.

I also have a Harlick with a dance-back cut that I wore twice. They aren't even fully broken in yet. Although they have a high dance heel so I wouldn't really recommend them for freestyle.

I could probably be swayed into letting either of those Harlicks go for $200.

I also have a pair of Labeda Pro Line plates that I no longer use. These are the original 80's model not the recent re-release. They do have new cushions though.

Just as an FYI, Harlicks are expensive. The pair I use now I actually bought in the 80s when I was still competing. They were in a closet for 20-years. I send them to Harlick and they re-lined and added some tending padding and a little more support (I was going to use them for ice.) Anyway, I bought the second pair of Harlicks and was on those for about 6-months and was roller and ice skating. The re-conditioned Harlicks just fit too well. I pulled the ice blades off and went back to my original 1980's Harlicks for freestyle. So, although Harlicks cost a lot you get a lot out of them. I've probably put about $1,000 into those boots over the years but they are as good as new.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 11:50 PM   #14
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Thanks for the feedback guys! Normally in shoes i get a size 9, but if they cut the toebox area wide enough i'm finding i'm more of an 8.5 ish.. My bonts are 8.5 it was the first time i got anything in an 8.5 and they fit pretty nicely, but a pair of reidell speed skates in 8.5 would hurt my feet pretty bad... so a 10 might be a bit big for me

I'll work on that axel on feet only then, and try to get all those steps straight, i'll also try to work on keeping my arms in the right area for my waltz jumps..
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Old August 24th, 2012, 12:58 AM   #15
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Thanks for the feedback guys! Normally in shoes i get a size 9, but if they cut the toebox area wide enough i'm finding i'm more of an 8.5 ish.. My bonts are 8.5 it was the first time i got anything in an 8.5 and they fit pretty nicely, but a pair of reidell speed skates in 8.5 would hurt my feet pretty bad... so a 10 might be a bit big for me

I'll work on that axel on feet only then, and try to get all those steps straight, i'll also try to work on keeping my arms in the right area for my waltz jumps..
dont forget you can also order wide sizes or look for used ice boots on ebay in a wide size. another thing is you can stretch them at a cobbler or with some stretch spray and a special shoe stretcher or wearing them after you spray them but usually that wont work enough with the boots you already have.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 03:51 AM   #16
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I could buy ice boots and mount plates on em? I never thought of that.. is that a perfectly legit/proper/good strategy too? or are they just as expensive? (and as comfortable?)

Also i'm going to practice my waltz tonight some more, what does it mean to 'check' my landing, is it some way of stopping the spin or landing proper that i'm not doing?
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Old August 24th, 2012, 06:40 AM   #17
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I could buy ice boots and mount plates on em? I never thought of that.. is that a perfectly legit/proper/good strategy too? or are they just as expensive? (and as comfortable?)

Also i'm going to practice my waltz tonight some more, what does it mean to 'check' my landing, is it some way of stopping the spin or landing proper that i'm not doing?
Checking means to stop the rotation of your jump by slightly rotating the opposite direction at the end of the jump. It stops your body from whipping around as you land.
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Old August 24th, 2012, 11:19 AM   #18
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I could buy ice boots and mount plates on em? I never thought of that.. is that a perfectly legit/proper/good strategy too? or are they just as expensive? (and as comfortable?)

Also i'm going to practice my waltz tonight some more, what does it mean to 'check' my landing, is it some way of stopping the spin or landing proper that i'm not doing?
the ice boots are as expensive if not more but you can get them cheaper used online at ebay or other ice sites. if you have an ice skating rink or ice shop near you, you may find them used and on sale for 100 bucks or so depending. not as many mens as there are womans but u could get lucky.

to check the jump is to stop the rotation before you hit the floor. pull your right shoulder back a bit and your right arm to the side but up and your left arm in front, they should form an L. also you have to stop the hip rotation and the free leg from swinging it should be straighter back and off the ground. this is a good thing to do not on skates also for muscle memory and practice. good luck and have fun
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Old August 24th, 2012, 05:34 PM   #19
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Default Check Back

Hi Again,

Well Rick and son are experts at this stuff, yet let me add a bit that I am sure Rick will agree with.

Have someone do 3-turns for you and watch them closely. Depending on the person you will see a consistent check back as they make each 3-turn. The better the skater the harder it is to see the check back unless they are a teacher demonstrating.

Years ago in NY I used to skate with a guy from Williamsport, PA who loved check backs so much that he used to magnify them on each 3-turn, when he was on a 3-turn roll of piles of turns.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
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Old August 24th, 2012, 05:58 PM   #20
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Hi Again,

Well Rick and son are experts at this stuff, yet let me add a bit that I am sure Rick will agree with.

Have someone do 3-turns for you and watch them closely. Depending on the person you will see a consistent check back as they make each 3-turn. The better the skater the harder it is to see the check back unless they are a teacher demonstrating.

Years ago in NY I used to skate with a guy from Williamsport, PA who loved check backs so much that he used to magnify them on each 3-turn, when he was on a 3-turn roll of piles of turns.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
Hey Dave,

I like your explanation but want to make sure I have the visualization right... You wouldn't be able to post a video showing that, would you? I'm always looking for new and better ways to get the concept of "checking" across to kids.

Thanks.
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