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Speed Skating Forum Most of the discussions in this forum will be about inline speed skating but discussions about ice speed skating and quad roller speed skating are also welcome.

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Old December 28th, 2015, 05:23 AM   #1
slowpoke
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Default Frame question for you speed vets

When you first got into speed skating, how did you go about choosing a frame?
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Old December 28th, 2015, 06:12 AM   #2
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When you first got into speed skating, how did you go about choosing a frame?
Used my son's hand me downs or should that be hand me ups?
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Old December 28th, 2015, 07:16 AM   #3
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I dont think a frame choice should matter for a first build. More or less what you can afford that has good reviews/ little failures(larger skaters tend to break p51 frames , or so I hear). Being on here and digging through some threads would give a good range of choices.

It would probably be better to buy 2 sets of wheels (indoor/outdoor) than a really expensive frame and one set of wheels.

If buying good gear (expensive) would reduce skating time, go cheaper if possible. Nothing replaces time spent on skates honing your craft.
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Old December 28th, 2015, 11:48 AM   #4
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My first frame? I got what we found at some garage sale, I think. Or maybe it was a sports shop. That was 20 years ago, though, and at the time inlines hadn't really infiltrated Ohio's speed scene.

Don't go too cheap. My mom went that route a few years back. She got a frame from a reputable company, but one of their cheapest options since she figured at her speed (fitness skater) it wouldn't much matter. A couple of skates in she bent the front of one of the frames and had to buy a new set. A good (new) frame for an adult is going to run you about $200 at the cheapest. Don't try to save $50 if it means you are going to have to buy a new frame in a couple of months. As soon as you've bent the first one it wasn't worth the savings. I am not saying you need a $400 frame, just don't go for the cheapest option.

As for what you want:
1) Choose your wheel size. The frame length and deck height will play into this.
2) Make sure the mounting length fits your boot.
3) Get something with good reviews (that will mean good materials and good engineering).

If you are thinking about getting serious about speed and you are asking for an adult you may want to consider the Cado Comp Transformer. I've heard very good things about it as both a 125 and 110 frame, and it's priced very reasonably. You would be future proofed for whichever wheel size the sport ends up using in the next few years instead of potentially finding yourself at a disadvantage or requiring a new frame next year if the rules change (USARS could introduce limits or FIRS could remove them). If you're asking for someone smaller the 13.2" might be too long.

Or you could go the used route. It will save money and you can get some good frames that way. I typically don't prefer that unless I know the seller or can look at the stuff first hand just to make sure that the stuff is in good condition.
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Old December 28th, 2015, 02:21 PM   #5
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There are some good places to get used gear as well. A couple that come to mind:

http://www.nettracing.com/used.htm

If you use FacebooK.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/333495950175488/

Really good used parts are better than buying the cheap sh*t from China and may save you some cash.

As far as which frame to choose, if you're just starting out, you may not want to jump right into 110mm wheels. The ankle adjustment may be a bit much. Maybe a good 3x100mm or 4x100mm, depending on your weight would suffice to start. Do you already have a boot picked out? If so, mounting length may determine what type of frame you buy as well. There are 2 mount lengths, short (165mm) and long (195mm). You can't get a 4x110mm setup in short mount. Having said that, there are a lot of 3x100mm, 4x100mm, and even hi-lo (3x110mm/1x100mm) setups, which can mount to a short mount boot. I use a 9 year Simmons custom w/ a short mount and used to run a hi-lo and it was great.
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Old December 28th, 2015, 07:42 PM   #6
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Default Thanks guys!

Hey I really appreciate the info fellas. I should have prefaced my original post with:

-I'm 6'0, 180lbs.
-Using Powerslide R2's
-I have a Cado 3x110 1x100, 12.8 long
-Also have a Vanilla 4x100 frame, 12" long.
-I use 90mm wheels, with the exception of (2) 80mm on the Cado frame.

What I should have asked, when starting out, should I go taller deck height, with shorter length or vice versa? I've been on the Cado frame, adjusted both inward (up front) and I can skate on them for about 1/2 mile before my legs, shins, and muscles I didn't know I had, start to fall off.

2016 will be the year I get serious about my inline skating and get to work on it. I really appreciate the info. It keeps me motivated esp since around here there is very little interest in skating of any kind.
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Old December 28th, 2015, 09:46 PM   #7
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Default just some basics here

The more deck height and pointed profile of the wheels the harder it will be to control the skate. The longer the frame is the slower it will navigate/ carve. Also the larger the wheels , the slower they turn. Harder wheels are more of the same, less deflection, less ability to deflect the wheel and cause the skate to dive or corner., so they feel like they turn slower. Longer frames are less capable of this with stability because compression up front will cause more lift in the back.

Another thing..
The speed needed to skate larger frames more effortlessly is sometimes more than newer skaters expect, so the carving cadences they are used to with either quads hockey inlines or rec skates doesnt work, and has to be adapted to the new skate. That timing change is probably the oddest thing I ran into. Well that and a poor fitting boot feeling like it was trying to shear my ankles in half when it wasnt heat molded when I wore it.
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Old December 28th, 2015, 10:06 PM   #8
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The Cado is a fine beginner frame for you. I'd stay away from the Vanilla. I've known skaters who used them (lighter than you, but also pretty fast, so probably applying about the same amount of force) who had problems with how flexy they were. Also, if you decide to go to bigger wheels at some point the length from front to back of the wheels will be a lot longer than a 12" frame will give you. Then you have to relearn the crossover to stop from clicking your skates with each step.

I personally feel deck height is a bit overhyped. Don't worry about it too much. The much bigger deal is how you adjust your frames. Do you have a picture of your alignment? Adjusting both inward doesn't sound very promising. More likely you need to adjust them back to the traditional mounting line and learn to lean and control your edges naturally.
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Old December 28th, 2015, 11:22 PM   #9
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...
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Old December 28th, 2015, 11:51 PM   #10
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(I wrote this before you posted the recent picture; while I could have assumed by the equipment you're using, it really looks like you're doing outdoor judging by the wheel wear.)

Also, there's going to be different considerations for indoor Vs. outdoor.

With frame length, sure, there's cadence differences, but with indoor there's more crossovers. If your frame length is slowing down your crossovers, but good in the straights, that probably works fine for road racing. For indoor or track racing that can completely mess with a skater with shorter legs as they lunge through the turns.

With frame placement we worry about being able to get on our edges, but also being able to balance so we're not needlessly straining muscles just keeping our skates straight. Outdoor that's usually pretty much centered out the heel and somewhere around the 2nd and/or 3rd toe (different people, different feet.) For indoor we might want to move them to the left, or even angle them to aid in the underpush on a crossover. I find that if I don't do both I get serious sore muscles fighting to keep them (mostly my left skate) from collapsing down to the floor in a corner and my underpush disappears. So I have different frame placements depending on what I'm doing. Even for outdoor, if we're doing track-style drills I still move them to the left and angle them. If we're doing more straights or turning both ways, I'll usually center them up.

Frame height doesn't so much affect placement for me as much as just puts more emphasis on getting it just right. On 5x80 I still need the angle on the left skate, but the centering to the left isn't as much a muscle issue as booting out against the floor. I was skating on 5x80's for most of last year when I was battling boot/foot issues and could skate fine with it centered or not. When I originally moved up to 100+ I tried centering it back up, being I didn't need to worry as much about booting out, but the left side of my lower leg was on fire and my ankles black and blue. That extra leverage makes a big difference. (And I was reminded of this when Chad Hedrick re-centered everyone's during a clinic and I had to put them back over.)

Personally I don't care that much about how well or steep a speed setup carves through a corner, within reason. In indoor, for the most part, we're doing the most carving as we set up a corner, from then on your crossovers should take you through the corner. If it won't carve at all, sure, that's frustrating as you end up wanting to lean further and you may not be carrying enough speed to pull you through. I have this issue with circle drills right now. I end up taking them pretty wide and even then, in order to slow down my footing enough to get benefits from the drill I'm going fast enough to get enough lean and then I'm barking. But, to be fair, I'm not turning that sharp in a race, so if it affects a drill, oh well. Part of that can be frame stiffness, too. I'm running an Ion Vanquish, I'll try it with my P51 sometime.

But again, for outdoor, not being able to carve can make a double push pretty hard if you can't steer it to come back in after your underpush.

There's just a lot to consider for the different applications and different people's shapes. Sometimes the blanket advice doesn't apply to both.
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Old December 28th, 2015, 11:53 PM   #11
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From that angle it looks to me that the right frame is too far in. Maybe as much as 1/2" too far, but probably not quite that much. The left skate looks pretty close to where I would put it. Obviously there will be some adjustment based on your personal skating style.

Are the back wheels lines up with your Achilles tendon?
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Old December 29th, 2015, 12:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by matguy View Post
(I wrote this before you posted the recent picture; while I could have assumed by the equipment you're using, it really looks like you're doing outdoor judging by the wheel wear.)

Also, there's going to be different considerations for indoor Vs. outdoor.

With frame length, sure, there's cadence differences, but with indoor there's more crossovers. If your frame length is slowing down your crossovers, but good in the straights, that probably works fine for road racing. For indoor or track racing that can completely mess with a skater with shorter legs as they lunge through the turns.

With frame placement we worry about being able to get on our edges, but also being able to balance so we're not needlessly straining muscles just keeping our skates straight. Outdoor that's usually pretty much centered out the heel and somewhere around the 2nd and/or 3rd toe (different people, different feet.) For indoor we might want to move them to the left, or even angle them to aid in the underpush on a crossover. I find that if I don't do both I get serious sore muscles fighting to keep them (mostly my left skate) from collapsing down to the floor in a corner and my underpush disappears. So I have different frame placements depending on what I'm doing. Even for outdoor, if we're doing track-style drills I still move them to the left and angle them. If we're doing more straights or turning both ways, I'll usually center them up.

Frame height doesn't so much affect placement for me as much as just puts more emphasis on getting it just right. On 5x80 I still need the angle on the left skate, but the centering to the left isn't as much a muscle issue as booting out against the floor. I was skating on 5x80's for most of last year when I was battling boot/foot issues and could skate fine with it centered or not. When I originally moved up to 100+ I tried centering it back up, being I didn't need to worry as much about booting out, but the left side of my lower leg was on fire and my ankles black and blue. That extra leverage makes a big difference. (And I was reminded of this when Chad Hedrick re-centered everyone's during a clinic and I had to put them back over.)

Personally I don't care that much about how well or steep a speed setup carves through a corner, within reason. In indoor, for the most part, we're doing the most carving as we set up a corner, from then on your crossovers should take you through the corner. If it won't carve at all, sure, that's frustrating as you end up wanting to lean further and you may not be carrying enough speed to pull you through. I have this issue with circle drills right now. I end up taking them pretty wide and even then, in order to slow down my footing enough to get benefits from the drill I'm going fast enough to get enough lean and then I'm barking. But, to be fair, I'm not turning that sharp in a race, so if it affects a drill, oh well. Part of that can be frame stiffness, too. I'm running an Ion Vanquish, I'll try it with my P51 sometime.

But again, for outdoor, not being able to carve can make a double push pretty hard if you can't steer it to come back in after your underpush.

There's just a lot to consider for the different applications and different people's shapes. Sometimes the blanket advice doesn't apply to both.
Holy cow that's a lot to process! I'll have to break all that down. And yes, only outdoor skating so far. Kind of nervous about getting around kids at the rink right now.
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Old December 29th, 2015, 12:26 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by WJCIV View Post
From that angle it looks to me that the right frame is too far in. Maybe as much as 1/2" too far, but probably not quite that much. The left skate looks pretty close to where I would put it. Obviously there will be some adjustment based on your personal skating style.

Are the back wheels lines up with your Achilles tendon?
Yes sir, the back is centered up. And yeah, they are angled in way to much. I see what you are saying. I need to learn to skate the edges instead of relying on a frame way over to avoid pronating.
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Old December 29th, 2015, 06:58 AM   #14
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The cado is a great frame, we had masters skaters winning national gold medals on that exact frame this year and apart from being a bit heavier than the current crop its a sensational frame.

It will do you until you are skating 10 klm in well under 20 minutes so I would look at working towards using the intended 3x110 1x100 before ever thinking about replacing it.
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Old December 29th, 2015, 01:16 PM   #15
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The cado is a great frame, we had masters skaters winning national gold medals on that exact frame this year and apart from being a bit heavier than the current crop its a sensational frame.

It will do you until you are skating 10 klm in well under 20 minutes so I would look at working towards using the intended 3x110 1x100 before ever thinking about replacing it.
That's a 10-4! That's what I'll do.
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Old December 29th, 2015, 02:30 PM   #16
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Default Frame Choice

My First Choice is Pre Owned!

Unlike boots that may need specific fitting, frames are easy to come by. Do some research on them for the ones that are not so hot.

I went through a few. Bont 3PF frame had too much flex for me. I have an LSR Vanquish, but it actually feels a little too stiff for me. Wish I didnt sell my Xtech IS frame. It had the sweet spot for me for stiffness and flex.

Then again, I'm a heavy person. Your experience would be different.
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