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Ask DocSk8 (Expert Indoor Skate Building Advice) This forum is different then the other SkateLog forums in that it is not a discussion forum, but rather a place you can ask skate building expert Fred "DocSk8" Benjamin about building and repairing indoor speed, derby, and jamskate quad roller skates. Please start a new thread for each new question.

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Old June 7th, 2010, 06:28 PM   #1
BananasRUS
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Default Skins versus Magnum wheelbases w/ DA 45

Doc,

At least two of us need to know about the actual wheelbases of the Skins plates with the DA 45 conversion. According to the Sure-Grip chart, they are not exactly the same size as the Magnums, size for size, OR are they?

And does the DA 45 conversion add .25" or about 15MM to the W/B or not?

Thanks!
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Old June 7th, 2010, 07:25 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by BananasRUS View Post
Doc,

At least two of us need to know about the actual wheelbases of the Skins plates with the DA 45 conversion. According to the Sure-Grip chart, they are not exactly the same size as the Magnums, size for size, OR are they?

seem pretty close to me... Let's put it this way... I doubt seriously it's enough to make a difference...

And does the DA 45 conversion add .25" or about 15MM to the W/B or not?

Thanks!

Originally we thought it did using some of the early prototype trucks... Careful measurement of the production parts proved otherwise... If there is a difference between the stock trucks and the DA45 it is very slight..


The big wheel base change comes about when putty Snyder Royal trucks on SSTs, UIs or IIs. That adds 3/4"
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Old June 7th, 2010, 07:30 PM   #3
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Question Beating a dead horse!

Doc, do you have a brief listing of the Approx. Axle Center to Axle center dimensions for the different sized Skins with DA trucks!?
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Old June 7th, 2010, 09:00 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by masmojo View Post
Doc, do you have a brief listing of the Approx. Axle Center to Axle center dimensions for the different sized Skins with DA trucks!?
I have only built 1s, 2s, and 3s... Have not really paid attention to what the wheel base was... I will be building some in the next week or 2 I guess I can measure some of them......
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Old June 8th, 2010, 01:34 AM   #5
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Default If all else fails

Go to the source. Remember, these are the distances between the axles, not between the axle centers. Add about 1/4" (9/32" actually) to get the wheelbase.

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Old June 8th, 2010, 04:03 AM   #6
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Default



Size 1 DA45 Skins- 132mm or 5 3/16"



Size 2 DA45 Skins-143mm or 5 5/8"

Size 3 DA45 Skins-154mm or 6 1/16"

Size 4 DA45 Skins-165mm or 6 1/2"

Size 5 DA45 Skins-176mm or 6 15/16"

Size 6 DA45 Skins-187mm or 7 3/8"




Size 2 DA45 Magnums-148mm or 5 13/16"



Size 3 DA45 Magnums-159mm or 6 1/4"



Size 4 DA45 Magnums-168mm or 6 5/8"

Size 5 DA45 Magnum 177mm or 7"

Size 6 DA45 Magnum 187mm or 7 3/8"
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Last edited by G. No-Evil; June 8th, 2010 at 04:45 AM. Reason: Sorry Size 1 not 0, duh.
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Old June 8th, 2010, 04:34 AM   #7
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Cool RE" Chart

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvw View Post
Go to the source. Remember, these are the distances between the axles, not between the axle centers. Add about 1/4" (9/32" actually) to get the wheelbase.

Yeah that's the grid I got as well, but the girl who sent it to me, did not realize it was Axle to axle not axle center to axle center, which as you said on the other thread is 9/32" additional!! Still nothing like throwing a ruler on it! Of course it certainly seems that especially with the 45 degree set up's the wheel base could change quite a bit depending on cushion softness, tightness and how you adjust the pivot pin!
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Old June 8th, 2010, 06:05 AM   #8
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Exclamation Spot Check

Size 1 DA45 Skins
Geno's Ruler says: 5 3/16" (5.1875)
Chart Says: 4-15/16 (4.9375) + .28 axle diameter = 5.2175

Size 2 DA45 Skins
Geno's Ruler says: 5 5/8" (5.5625)
Chart says: 5-5/16 (5.3125) + .28 axle diameter = 5.5925

Size 3 DA45 Skins
Geno's Ruler says: 6 1/16" (6.0625)
Chart says: 5-13/16 (5.8125) + .28 axle diameter = 6.0925

Size 2 DA45 Magnums
Geno's Ruler says: 5 13/16" (5.8125)
Chart says: 5-5/8 (5.5625) + .28 axle diameter = 5.8425

Size 3 DA45 Magnums
Geno's Ruler says: 6 1/4" (6.25)
Chart says: 6 (6.00) + .28 axle diameter = 6.28

Size 6 DA45 Magnum
Geno's Ruler says: 7 3/8" (7.1875)
Chart says: 6-7/8 (6.875) + .28 axle diameter = 7.155

Looks like DA-45 wheelbase follow the original SA wheelbase pretty closely. The measured and calculated differences are statistically irrelevant because there could easily be a few thou error in something as simple as drilling the truck for the axle, where the ruler was placed when measuring, how the plate was drilled for the kingpin and on and on. Normal production tolerance.

As far as things changing with the cushions and pivot adjustment, you aren't going to change the wheelbase by half an axle width doing that, and 1/8" is just barely noticible to most people unless you're sensitive to such things or are on a very short mount.
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Old June 8th, 2010, 06:38 AM   #9
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Default

Thank you all for providing all this info!!!
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Old June 8th, 2010, 07:55 AM   #10
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Default The question is Skins ONLY with different trucks

My take on this thread is that the question was about how the DIFFERENT TRUCKS all mounted on the SAME SKINS PLATE would affect the axle-to-axle distance.

Since there are no original Skins trucks remaining, and only other S-G trucks are being substituted to complete the plate assembly, this seems a fair question to ask.

So, If I put a two Magnum SA trucks on a SKINS plate, will the A-to-A remain the same as a pair of DA45 conversion trucks on the SAME SKINS PLATE?

I have a set of Magnum SA trucks and will test this later today

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Old June 8th, 2010, 03:29 PM   #11
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Default Yes but

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
Since there are no original Skins trucks remaining, and only other S-G trucks are being substituted to complete the plate assembly, this seems a fair question to ask.

So, If I put a two Magnum SA trucks on a SKINS plate, will the A-to-A remain the same as a pair of DA45 conversion trucks on the SAME SKINS PLATE?
All of the 45 degree single action Sure Grip plates used the same truck. The Skins trucks were plastic, but they used the same mold as the cast aluminum ones and were otherwise identical. Cyclones, Invaders, XK-4s, Magnums, all the same.

And with that, I'm back into the woodwork in the good Doctor's forum...
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Old June 8th, 2010, 04:07 PM   #12
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Default Measurements

Quote:
Originally Posted by dvw View Post
Size 1 DA45 Skins
As far as things changing with the cushions and pivot adjustment, you aren't going to change the wheelbase by half an axle width doing that, and 1/8" is just barely noticible to most people unless you're sensitive to such things or are on a very short mount.
Thanks for the side by side measurements! Yeah, I agree about the small difference, but regarding the potential cushion/pivot differences if you take an 1/8" and add it to the .28 that the SG chart is off by; a person could end up with a difference of almost a third of an inch! This is still not a big deal unless as you say you are planning on a short mount, but I think that's what percipitates this whole discussion. If you are not interested in a short mount you would probably just go with the manufactureres recommended plate and not worry about wheelbase at all!
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Old June 8th, 2010, 04:34 PM   #13
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Thumbs up Many thanks folks...

I appreciate those of you that came forward with actual measurements. Good stuff...
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Old June 8th, 2010, 04:41 PM   #14
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by masmojo View Post
Thanks for the side by side measurements! Yeah, I agree about the small difference, but regarding the potential cushion/pivot differences if you take an 1/8" and add it to the .28 that the SG chart is off by;
The chart is NOT "off by" 0.28" --- what is OFF is our expectations about what the chart SHOULD HAVE been measuring (axle C-to-C) versus what it actually DID measure (axle air gap). Because it just doesn't measure what normal skate people EXPECT that it should be measuring only makes it confusing not OFF, and since we have the additional wrinkle of whether 7mm or 8mm axle trucks are involved, this is horrible. I just changed all the numbers on the chart to C-to-C and crossed out the air gap ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by masmojo View Post
a person could end up with a difference of almost a third of an inch! This is still not a big deal unless as you say you are planning on a short mount, but I think that's what percipitates this whole discussion. If you are not interested in a short mount you would probably just go with the manufactureres recommended plate and not worry about wheelbase at all!
Get a bag of aluminum washers and stack them above those short cushions to maintain your axle locations. Thinner or thicker jam nuts are also useful.

-Armadillo (trespassing in DocLand)
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Old June 8th, 2010, 05:26 PM   #15
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Default Absolutely right...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
The chart is NOT "off by" 0.28" --- what is OFF is our expectations about what the chart SHOULD HAVE been measuring (axle C-to-C) versus what it actually DID measure (axle air gap). Because it just doesn't measure what normal skate people EXPECT that it should be measuring only makes it confusing not OFF, and since we have the additional wrinkle of whether 7mm or 8mm axle trucks are involved, this is horrible. I just changed all the numbers on the chart to C-to-C and crossed out the air gap ones.

Remember, the SG chart is ancient history... Manufacturers cannot agree on how to number their plates sizes even now... SG is aware and working to upgrade their to our expectations... The new Invader chart is center to center and measured in inches and millimeters...

Get a bag of aluminum washers and stack them above those short cushions to maintain your axle locations. Thinner or thicker jam nuts are also useful.

I'm confused here.... What are we adjusting the DA45 suspension height for?

-Armadillo (trespassing in DocLand)

Have ya gotten to the "All trespassers will be shot on sight" sign??
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Old June 9th, 2010, 02:15 AM   #16
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Old June 9th, 2010, 04:55 AM   #17
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