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Ask DocSk8 (Expert Indoor Skate Building Advice) This forum is different then the other SkateLog forums in that it is not a discussion forum, but rather a place you can ask skate building expert Fred "DocSk8" Benjamin about building and repairing indoor speed, derby, and jamskate quad roller skates. Please start a new thread for each new question.

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Old January 5th, 2010, 08:49 PM   #21
Doc Sk8
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Default IDK

Sounds like he is a good sales man?? Probably thinks anyone can build sk8s...

dvw and I were discussing the other issue you mentioned... He pretty much nailed it. Same thing as other other competitive sk8rs do.

1) The see someone kicking butt and assume the sk8s are the key....so they get the same sk8s..

2) The get a pair of sk8s and have a really good practice / bout one time and suddenly that combo is magic. Does not matter that all the stars aligned to get that to happen that one time... They are telling all their team mates, YOU NEED THESE... and we all know that is not always the case...

Unfortunately, most sk8rs don't realize they are the major part of the equation... We argue all the time about it's the sk8r not the sk8s or its the sk8s not the sk8r... The key really is: it is the sk8r and the sk8s...

If the sk8r is not in shape, ain't no pair of sk8s gonna turn 'em into a star....


There are combinations that make good staring points, but none are universal to every sk8r...

Deviating off into space, especially with plate alignment is not a good thing...
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Old January 5th, 2010, 09:12 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Sk8
Unfortunately, most sk8rs don't realize they are the major part of the equation...
You should end it there... with the best statement to start this year!
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Old January 5th, 2010, 09:40 PM   #23
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Like I said, the guy builds pretty skates. Everything is color cordinated. Wheels, boots, laces, toe guards. If I didn't know anything about skates, I would be impressed too. Who cares if they skate, you gotta look good. Get a good skater on some pretty skates and you can easily market yourself.
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Old January 5th, 2010, 09:57 PM   #24
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Get a good skater on some pretty skates and you can easily market yourself.
That sounds like the idea behind Riedell ColorLab!!
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Old January 6th, 2010, 03:35 PM   #25
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An update on this builder. He comes from the ice skating world. Maybe some of his tatics work for the arty ice skaters. Who knows???

I did some skate inspection last night. I have a jammer who is a decent skater, but she has some issues with her skating form. She can push forever, but when she revocers from the push, her skate lands under her elbow instead of under her center of gravity. Basically, she looks like a penguin when she skates. She is on a 965 / Dynapro setup built by our guy. The plates are mounted waaaaay to the inside in the front, and pushed as far as they can go to the inside at the heel. To give everyone and idea of what the mount looks like, if a snyder tool mark was put on the bottom of the boot, the centerline of the plate at the front truck would probably be 3/8" off the mark. Time for a plate change and remount!!!!!
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Old January 6th, 2010, 04:46 PM   #26
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Default Oh, lovely!!

You will post some before pix??
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Old January 6th, 2010, 05:15 PM   #27
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Uh-oh, looks like I better check one of the other girls skates. She got them from him. I think her's were just straight-from-Reidell 965/Reactor.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 02:52 PM   #28
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Well, I guess he built both of the girls skates with the plates toward the instep. I asked one who was at practice last night what she thought of them and she LOVED them. She felt like they were really responsive and went exactly where she told them to, and felt more in control. She just thought they were great. Now, I should add that with this mount she went from a 170 Variant to a 156mm Reactor, so I don't know how much of that responsiveness is just from the shorter plate. I should have a better idea from the other girl who went from 156mm Reactor to 150mm Reactor and that instep mount. At any rate, right now she has no complaints at all.

After looking at them last night, it appears that he found the correct center line, then shifted the whole thing , even the back, over toward the instep. It still looks, to my eye, like a regular mount in every other way.


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Old January 12th, 2010, 04:04 PM   #29
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Default Well duh

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
She felt like they were really responsive and went exactly where she told them to, and felt more in control. She just thought they were great. Now, I should add that with this mount she went from a 170 Variant to a 156mm Reactor, so I don't know how much of that responsiveness is just from the shorter plate.
We'll never know for sure unless she skates one setup or the other not mounted at that offset. My bet is on the shortness rather than the mounting. I might go mount one like that and see what it does for me.

I'll just offer this one thing. Wonder how much faster this is?

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Old January 12th, 2010, 04:16 PM   #30
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I don't worry too much about rubbing. I you build a set like this, let me know because I am interested to know how different they are.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 05:36 PM   #31
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Default You should.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spartan View Post
I don't worry too much about rubbing. I you build a set like this, let me know because I am interested to know how different they are.
Wheel bite:
1) Slows you down
2) May throw you on your face...
3) The sk8 in the pic will always want to go left. If the other one is a mirror image, it will want to go right. ..Not real helpful...

Remember, ya can learn to sk8 on anything... Just because it works better than what ya had before, does not mean it is the best set up...
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Old January 14th, 2010, 03:42 AM   #32
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Default Hairy legs included for your viewing pleasure

595 / Dynapro set up. These are a size 6. THey are off, but not too bad.




965 / Dynapro. Size 7.




At the heel, the plate sticks out past the boot by about .015 or so.
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Old January 14th, 2010, 06:46 AM   #33
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Default This plate mount scheme sends skates toward OUTSIDE

With most of the foot (and thus weight) hanging off on the outside of the plate, this mount location will force skaters to resist putting too much of their weight on their outer foot, since that part has way more than normal leverage over the action.
This will also make it hard for outside skae to track tight in turns, but easier for the inner skate to hold the turns. The foot biometrics for most people is such that they can apply more downward plate tilt force, using their ankles, at the outer sides of their feet than they can at the inner sides, so this scheme FURTHER REDUCES how much force can be applied to inside of plate by lowering the ankle leverage for the inner foot over the plate.
Unless peoples' ankles tilt more powerfully downward ON THE INSIDE (highly unlikely), I don't see why they would like this scheme.
The Penguin style makes sense because placing a skate down to floor under center of mass would apply most of the weight to outer wheels forcing an immediate sharp outward turn. But, placing skate back down to floor below shoulder allows skater to better share their weight load between inner and outer wheels, and to hold a straighter path.
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Old January 14th, 2010, 03:15 PM   #34
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The skater in the 965 set up can not put the skate on an inside edge. I put her on a figure circle to see if she could do a left inner edge. I showed her how to do it, and she is a good skater. When she tried, the skate went straight. To follow the figure circle, she had to hop on one foot to make the skate turn. A figure circle has a 9.5 ft radius, the inside radius of a derby track is 12.5 ft. Not much difference. If the skates can't turn on a figure circle, they aren't gonna turn on the derby track.
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Old January 14th, 2010, 04:26 PM   #35
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Default You got that right.

I just put a lady on a 965 w/ a Royal... She was just cruising the figure circles @Romp-N-Roll... A little shaky at first on purple SG urethane cushions... but she came off a Reactor...

Of course you know how those were aligned...
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Old January 25th, 2010, 08:39 PM   #36
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So the other girl was at skating last night. She looked like a wounded Gazelle. Short stroking her left crossover and basically looking like she just learned to skate. She didn't look as fast either, but I may not have been looking at it objectively. I know if I had mounted those skates and she was skating like that, I would have felt like I must have screwed something up big time. It breaks my heart. I asked if she was hurt or something. She said her feet are killing her, as she is also breaking in new 695's, so that might explain some of it. She didn't seem to be in a mood to talk about how here skates felt.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 02:31 AM   #37
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Has anyone here had a chance to try this kind of mount out? Both of these girls insist the mount is the greatest thing since sliced bread, that the speed coach thinks they are mounted right, and that my old fashioned "mounted in the middle" skates are dinosaurs from the speed world and that his mount is "derby specific" and just right for it. On an interesting note, we have a new girl who got one of his skates and is having a hell of a time with them. It was so bad that one of the above skaters told her something must be wrong and tightened her trucks up really far. That fixed part of the problem, but now the poor girl couldn't turn! So, it appears that a strong skater can overcome the problems with this mount, but a new skater can't.

They also listed about 5 "A" skaters who used this mount set-up, including Sadistic Sadie, Jackie Daniels, Jawbreaker, Dahmer, and Killbox. Oh, and my 31+ years of skating and discussions on this forum don't mean as much as his years of experience. Apprently, his mounting has a lot of support from rink owners, experienced skaters and the speed team. Just no one I have ever spoken to.

Anyway, I'd like to hear from someone who has tried this mount and knows what they are talking about to get the straight scoop.

Oh, and the conversation above came about because the guy wants to sponsor our team and I publicly begged them not to let them mount thier skates. Not a happy email thread after that.
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Old February 25th, 2010, 03:28 AM   #38
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Doc, where would this put the centerline of plate relative to a normal inline speed mount? (achilles to first interspace of the toes)
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Old February 25th, 2010, 05:09 AM   #39
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Default That is what it reminds me of....

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Doc, where would this put the centerline of plate relative to a normal inline speed mount? (achilles to first interspace of the toes)
Except the right foot looks about normal, the left is Bass ackwards.... BOTH plates are biased left on indoor inlines....
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Old February 25th, 2010, 01:44 PM   #40
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They also listed about 5 "A" skaters who used this mount set-up, including Sadistic Sadie, Jackie Daniels, Jawbreaker, Dahmer, and Killbox. Oh, and my 31+ years of skating and discussions on this forum don't mean as much as his years of experience. Apprently, his mounting has a lot of support from rink owners, experienced skaters and the speed team. Just no one I have ever spoken to.
That is funny.... Most of the rink owners and arty skaters in this area are heavily dependant on the Snyder tool for mounting. His mounts are no where near where a Snyder center mark would be, unless you are marking on the wrong side of the bar. lol

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Oh, and the conversation above came about because the guy wants to sponsor our team and I publicly begged them not to let them mount thier skates. Not a happy email thread after that.
We got the same story, except, some of the members of the league thought he already was sponsoring us.
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