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Ask DocSk8 (Expert Indoor Skate Building Advice) This forum is different then the other SkateLog forums in that it is not a discussion forum, but rather a place you can ask skate building expert Fred "DocSk8" Benjamin about building and repairing indoor speed, derby, and jamskate quad roller skates. Please start a new thread for each new question.

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Old March 26th, 2010, 02:09 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
If you don't mind me jumping in Doc, I also have a box of slider bars in most sizes, so if you don't find the needed one, let me know & I will check mine too.
The Slider's nylon slide bars, ALONE, can offer almost no resistance to the torsional twisting if the skate. Until the steel bar is installed, the boot sole is going to be the main structure helping to resist twisting, and unless it is a Bont carbon boot, it cannot replace what the missing steel bar normally delivers. Not having a bar will tend to make the two axles track on different arcs during turns. This might also even produce some instability while just going straight ahead.
Aside from installing the missing steel bars, another option is gluing a piece of 1/8" Dragon Plate carbon fiber sheet on top of the slider. This would stiffen up the plate dramatically, and could also solve the problem without installing the steel bar. The carbon sheet, however, is a much bigger job, and more expensive item as well. The size of a carbon sheet could be much smaller than the one in the PIC below (the flexible rubber soled skate shoe demanded a wider carbon sheet than a normal skate boot would need).

-Armadillo

The lady at the rink does NOT want to tear up her skates - she likes them original - an old 265 I believe. Since SG already sold her new DA trucks, I recommended she get a newer laser plate, but she wanted to keep them how they were.

I offered to inquire about the slider bars. The carbon is a good idea, but I'm 100% she wouldn't go for it!
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Old March 26th, 2010, 04:47 PM   #22
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I don't want to step on Doc's toes in his forum but I have been working on these plates for about 2 weeks now in refurbing my skates and I have run into a few issues in working on them that you might find helpful:

If you decide to replace the cushions on these plates, the new ones that you receive will be taller than the original equipment cushions that were supplied with the sliders. I bought replacement cushions from laser and a set from Snarf and both were taller than the originals.

When I installed the new taller cushions I found that I had less than 1/2" of my king pin threaded into my plates. This made me nervous so I installed longer king pins with the new cushions.

Note that when you tighten your rear trucks with the shorter cushions, it is possible to bottom out the king pin on the track that the rear truck mount slides on. I would imagine that if you torqued down hard enough on the kingpin, it could mess up the both the threads and the slider track.

I found that if the trucks are set too tight the skates have a tendency not to track properly. I don't know if this is an anomaly with the plate or if it just isn't mounted correctly.

Lastly, I found out that you can still buy new trucks for thes, but according to Laser all of the original molds for the sliders were destroyed when sure grip bought the company.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 07:25 PM   #23
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Default Slider trucks

Are the same as the regular SA Laser trucks. The cushions are the DA truck cushions. If you don't specify which Laser, confusion is rampant.

So repeat after me:

1) I will ALWAYS specify I have a Slider when discussing replacement parts with SG / Laser

2) I know my Slider takes the same trucks as the regular SA laser.

3) I know my Slider takes the short DA cushions.



The uppers on this one has modified DA Sure Grip cushions but you get the idea.

You can try lots of combos, but putting a SA upper in there is just not correct.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 08:19 PM   #24
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Doc,

I would consider mine single action.
On the head of the king pin there is a nylon washer, then an 1/8" thick rubber cushion, the truck, then the taller cushion, a cap, and then the
lock nut.

Not a big double action washer on the bottom as in your photo.

That being the case, I will probably cut down the spacer that Snarf sent me and use the original king pins.

I will take some photos when I get home from work.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 08:48 PM   #25
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No need for photos. Mine are the exact same set up as what Armadillo is shows in his photo. The only difference is that my king pin is a button head cap screw.
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Old March 26th, 2010, 11:47 PM   #26
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Default OK...

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenL View Post
No need for photos. Mine are the exact same set up as what Armadillo is shows in his photo. The only difference is that my king pin is a button head cap screw.
I hope you don't have any of the cushions screaming for mercy like he does??

So you have a choice... Run it as a single action for now. Then upgrade to DA later, when you have your legs back under you... The difference in response is really remarkable... I'd like to see your final set up.

NOTE 1: A Slider will never turn like a Laser due to the king pin angle.


NOTE 2: I have never seen a NIB Slider so I'm not 100% certain what it is supposed to look like. The advert I posted shows it as a SA. I have seen other set up DA so it comes down to IDK..
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Old March 27th, 2010, 03:42 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarf77 View Post
The lady at the rink does NOT want to tear up her skates - she likes them original - an old 265 I believe. Since SG already sold her new DA trucks, I recommended she get a newer laser plate, but she wanted to keep them how they were.

I offered to inquire about the slider bars. The carbon is a good idea, but I'm 100% she wouldn't go for it!
Perhaps she might prefer the custom aluminum bar in this ultralight setup. These also have aluminum reversed kingpins and ONE-NUT action adjustment. Combined with their titanium axles, the only remaining steel parts are the wheel bearings.


-Armadillo
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Old March 28th, 2010, 06:45 AM   #28
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Ok. I am new at including photos in posts so I am going to attempt to post photos and also include the url so you can see the image a bit larger.

The first photo should be of the new Laser cushions that are 3/4" tall that came with a new set of trucks that I bought next to the standard issue slider cushion that is 5/8" tall.



This is the url for this photo:
http://photos-b.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._3419680_s.jpg

This is a photo of the trucks as they came standard on the sliders:



This is the url:http://photos-h.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._1685306_s.jpg

This is a photo of the skates with the new cushions that Snarf sent me:


This is the url: http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs417...._5419887_n.jpg
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Old March 28th, 2010, 10:45 PM   #29
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Default How to convert tall cushion into proper slider cushion + "washer"

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenL View Post
Doc,

I would consider mine single action.
On the head of the king pin there is a nylon washer, then an 1/8" thick rubber cushion, the truck, then the taller cushion, a cap, and then the
lock nut.

Not a big double action washer on the bottom as in your photo.

That being the case, I will probably cut down the spacer that Snarf sent me and use the original king pins.

I will take some photos when I get home from work.
Armadillo butting in again with a Slider specific tip:

If you want the standard LASER SLIDER SA cushion setup on your Slider, it should NOT be 1" diameter (as in your PIC), but rather 7/8" dia. Then the height needs to be about .650.700 tall. If you only have the non-Slider Laser cushions that are 1.00" tall, here is a good trick. Stand the too-tall Laser SA cushion on a table and spin it with the tip of a Sharpie marker (laid flat on table) touching cushion as you spin. This should give a line around the cushion that starts ~.200" up from table. You can now capture the too-long cushion on a 3/8-16 bolt/nut and lightly chuck it in a drill with nut against the jaws. By spinning the cushion and holding a hacksaw on the line carefully, you can cut off a .200" "washer" from one end of the cushion. Combined with the thickness lost to the cutting of the saw's teeth, this will leave the remaining cushion at close to the optimum Laser Sliser size of .700 tall. You now have converted a single 1" tall 7/8" OD Laser cushion into a Slider cushion with matching washer. This technique was used in the skates shown in the PIC above.

MANDREL EXAMPLE CUTTING A SUPER CONE:


BTW, that PIC shows what seems a very short plate AND a rather rearward mount to the point where the front axle is BEHIND the ball of the foot?
-Armadillo
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Last edited by Armadillo; November 25th, 2010 at 07:46 PM. Reason: Washer thickness correction
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Old March 29th, 2010, 01:10 AM   #30
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I don't know if I have long toes or if the camera angle is funny but when I put my feet in the boots the ball of my foot is about 3/4" behind the front axle and close to being even with the rear of the front wheels.

I did have these plates mounted further forward but it made rotating my skates up on the front wheels difficult when I wanted to. It also gave me a feeling like my rear wheels were too far forward and that I would fall over backwards if I put any weight too close to my heels.

What ill affects can having my plates mounted this far back have?
They feel fine to me?
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Old March 29th, 2010, 05:16 AM   #31
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and to think I was just skating with Mr. Tim Hunter the other week.. can't wait to tell him SG has no idea what his slider model was
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Old March 29th, 2010, 11:59 AM   #32
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and to think I was just skating with Mr. Tim Hunter the other week.. can't wait to tell him SG has no idea what his slider model was
Its sad when my local rink has no idea what it is, and then SG tells a customer that they have no idea what it is, BUT, they'd be happy to sell her some new trucks for her plate!
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Old March 29th, 2010, 03:59 PM   #33
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Default Yeah it's sad...

But I'm trying to help fix it. Unfortunately, a lot of history gets lost any time a company is sold. If old product is not of interest to the new owners, POOF, just like that, it's gone... Businesses do not archive stuff like that "just in case"... unless the law requires it...

Now, if Mr Hunter has historical data, it would be nice if he would share.
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Old March 29th, 2010, 06:02 PM   #34
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I put a bolt through my cushions last night, chucked them up in my drill press and used a hack saw blade to cut them to size as Armadillo recommended.
Now they are correct height for my sliders.

I was impressed with how level and clean the cut was using this method.

Thanks for the tip.
The advice that I have received in this forum has been awesome.

When I am at the rink, I am surprised at how many people ask me about my plates. All of my rink rat friends had these in the mid-late 80's but apparently a lot of people have never seen them before.
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Old March 30th, 2010, 05:56 AM   #35
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Default It was DocSk8 who initially clued me in

Quote:
Originally Posted by KenL View Post
I put a bolt through my cushions last night, chucked them up in my drill press and used a hack saw blade to cut them to size as Armadillo recommended.
Now they are correct height for my sliders.

I was impressed with how level and clean the cut was using this method.

Thanks for the tip.
The advice that I have received in this forum has been awesome.

When I am at the rink, I am surprised at how many people ask me about my plates. All of my rink rat friends had these in the mid-late 80's but apparently a lot of people have never seen them before.
Thank DocSk8 too, as he was the one who told me what the proper height was for the Slider cushion. I merely came up with the hacksaw technique for converting the 1" to proper size, because I still do not have access to a lathe. Glad to hear it worked out so well for you.
I was also surprised at how accurately the cut turned out with this method. All the Best.

-Armadillo
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Old April 1st, 2010, 03:45 AM   #36
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Default Am I the lady at the rink?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snarf77 View Post
The lady at the rink does NOT want to tear up her skates - she likes them original - an old 265 I believe. Since SG already sold her new DA trucks, I recommended she get a newer laser plate, but she wanted to keep them how they were.

I offered to inquire about the slider bars. The carbon is a good idea, but I'm 100% she wouldn't go for it!
Snarf, have I been talking to you about my Sliders at the Manassas rink? The DA trucks keep coming loose, even with the too-long bolts SG sent me. I want to go back to my original SA trucks. From what I'm reading here, the SA cushions are taller now? If I use the original SA bolts, how long should the top SA cushion be?

DOES ANYONE HAVE A SIZE 5 OR 6 SLIDER JUMP BAR? I need 4" between the truck bolt holes. I was using a jump bar from my figure skates, but I'd like to get the correct part.
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Old April 1st, 2010, 04:05 AM   #37
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Default I got a box load of jump bars.

Snarf, where is the measurement you promised me??
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Old April 1st, 2010, 04:12 AM   #38
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Default Do you have a jump bar for me?

Doc, do you have a Laser Slider jump bar with 4" between the truck bolt holes?
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Old April 1st, 2010, 05:38 AM   #39
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Default It's like this....

The bolt hole measurement is kind of inexact... There is a notch on the ends of the plate castings that the stock jump bar locks into... That is what has to match...

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Old April 1st, 2010, 05:58 AM   #40
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The bolt hole measurement is kind of inexact... There is a notch on the ends of the plate castings that the stock jump bar locks into... That is what has to match...

Thanks. That distance is 3.25 inches.
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