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Old March 3rd, 2018, 12:41 PM   #1
fierocious1
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Default Finally tried lathe style retreading

Made a cutting tool and practiced before cutting my White Shamans

https://youtu.be/xMecc7CT7Ww
https://youtu.be/DM4f030SvUM
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Old March 4th, 2018, 10:08 AM   #2
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Default The best bit is i got to hear your accent

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Originally Posted by fierocious1 View Post
Made a cutting tool and practiced before cutting my White Shamans

https://youtu.be/xMecc7CT7Ww
https://youtu.be/DM4f030SvUM
Thats a deep cut. Did u practice on other wheels and found shallow cuts dont work that well?
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Old March 4th, 2018, 12:44 PM   #3
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Thats a deep cut. Did u practice on other wheels and found shallow cuts dont work that well?
Accent, what accent? Lol. Yep about .30 (.60 total). I found if I go too light I take a chance on ruining the cut completely and having to go deeper anyway. And they are my year and a half old Shamans, didn't want to mess up the cut. The worse wheel I had was slightly tapered and almost didn't start right. I practiced on a bunch of old wheels, junk stuff.
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Old March 4th, 2018, 11:36 PM   #4
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LOL, you turned your Shamans to re establish the grooves.
I turned mine to get rid of them!
To me grooved wheels skate like they are greased.
My Varsity + wheels I had to turn them, they were "as cast" and were not flat across the wheel in the least.
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Old March 5th, 2018, 01:26 AM   #5
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LOL, you turned your Shamans to re establish the grooves.
I turned mine to get rid of them!
To me grooved wheels skate like they are greased.
My Varsity + wheels I had to turn them, they were "as cast" and were not flat across the wheel in the least.
So far what I have found with the Shamans is.... on a decent floor its still a trade off. With grooves, faster grip on contact (fatter patch), slightly slower. Without tread may not bite initially, but will roll better. Somewhat sketchy on parts of the floor, may break away without notice. With my skates and style, tread works better for me.
Suspensions and tuning plays a part. I dont know your tune, but my suspension is soft at and angle and snug straght up. When you put you wheels down, you might touch the floor harder than I do... don't really know. Too many variables. Jmo
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Old March 5th, 2018, 01:33 AM   #6
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Default Broke them in again

Today. About an hour and hooked up solid at speed. Back to running down the locals... had blast today. Actually it was bigtime traffic due to parties. Probably helped the break in better. Finally got a chance to put in a couple of good laps.... freakin awesome! Nothing like the air wistleing in your ears at speed!

Cut mine to 32tpi
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Old March 5th, 2018, 09:42 AM   #7
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Default a guy down the road has a machine shop

i managed to get an open invititation.
I need to regroove the labedas .been skating them like my head ,bald for years
I played that you tube vid a dozen times just to hear "ok clip the corners now"
I think it would take me a month to get used to texas.because I only hear that accent in the movies.
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Old March 7th, 2018, 01:06 AM   #8
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i managed to get an open invititation.
I need to regroove the labedas .been skating them like my head ,bald for years
I played that you tube vid a dozen times just to hear "ok clip the corners now"
I think it would take me a month to get used to texas.because I only hear that accent in the movies.
The bit is very important. Regulars bits dont work for cutting urethane very well. I made my bit from keystock. I made about a 90 degree v on the end that the bottom angled in slightly, like the front of a boat, without any curve. Then took a 4" angle grinder with a cutoff wheel on it. I angled into the keystock at about a 30 degree angle(DA45 LOL) to make the cutting tip. Roughed that in to a sharp point the used a good file to clean it all up and sharpen the tip. My bit will cut you. I started off at Iirc 28 turns per inch, but like 34 much better. I go in about .020 to .030 inch, with practice less should be possible.
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Old March 8th, 2018, 02:20 AM   #9
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My plastics supplier said they purchase cutters specifically for plastics. I've never seen one though. I always grind my own like you did.
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Old March 8th, 2018, 03:01 AM   #10
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My plastics supplier said they purchase cutters specifically for plastics. I've never seen one though. I always grind my own like you did.
I was going to post a pic but had to work late tonight. I'll try again tomorrow. I didn't go to much trouble even to check angles. Just made it like I wanted it. Not hard to do at all.
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Old March 8th, 2018, 09:31 AM   #11
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Default I might just try this

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The bit is very important. Regulars bits dont work for cutting urethane very well. I made my bit from keystock. I made about a 90 degree v on the end that the bottom angled in slightly, like the front of a boat, without any curve. Then took a 4" angle grinder with a cutoff wheel on it. I angled into the keystock at about a 30 degree angle(DA45 LOL) to make the cutting tip. Roughed that in to a sharp point the used a good file to clean it all up and sharpen the tip. My bit will cut you. I started off at Iirc 28 turns per inch, but like 34 much better. I go in about .020 to .030 inch, with practice less should be possible.
maybe mount a 4" anglegrinder with a wafer thin cutoff wheel in the tool post ? .LOL
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Old March 12th, 2018, 02:10 AM   #12
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https://flic.kr/p/22kEtNo

https://flic.kr/p/GXWhRL

https://flic.kr/p/256CMUi

Cutting bit.
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Old March 13th, 2018, 03:59 AM   #13
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What I've found on the grooves vs no grooves(presuming the wheel is not coned) since I've had wheels machined true before, without grooving them.

Grooves help vs dusty floors, by giving the film of dirt/dust somewhere to go, essentially wiping the floor clean so the high points of the grooves that follow can grip, like in a sliding condition. The down side is that the grooves reduce contact patch, and on a clean floor, won't have quite as much grip. Again, that is if the wheel without grooves is not coned.


There are similar performance characteristics between quad skates and cars, and the way the wheels interact with the ground.(inlines and motorcycles too) Depending on the conditions, depends on what is going to have the best results for a skaters preference.
I am NOT a believer in "different compounds for different floors" hoopla.

For traction, you have 2 conditions of sheer, the ground, and the wheel. Not all urethane is created equal, so while 2 wheels may even be the exact same duro, width, urethane thickness, they won't always have the same sheer resistances. Example of poor sheer resistances would be vanilla wheels, like the 99A deluxes, I can slide sooo easy with them, not just cause they are hard, but because they literally leave white streaks/trails while hockey stopping.

The more wear resistance a wheel has for a given durometer, the more grip it will have, which is augmented by the trueness of the OD, or lack there of if cloned, and if it has grooves or is bald. Typically bald wheels are very cloned, so people don't get a good comparison of bald vs grooved. They don't take into consideration of the height inconsistencies which has an influence on grip.

Sheer resistance is why Scotties wheels have better grip than everything else out there.
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Old March 13th, 2018, 11:22 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
What I've found on the grooves vs no grooves(presuming the wheel is not coned) since I've had wheels machined true before, without grooving them.

Grooves help vs dusty floors, by giving the film of dirt/dust somewhere to go, essentially wiping the floor clean so the high points of the grooves that follow can grip, like in a sliding condition. The down side is that the grooves reduce contact patch, and on a clean floor, won't have quite as much grip. Again, that is if the wheel without grooves is not coned.


There are similar performance characteristics between quad skates and cars, and the way the wheels interact with the ground.(inlines and motorcycles too) Depending on the conditions, depends on what is going to have the best results for a skaters preference.
I am NOT a believer in "different compounds for different floors" hoopla.

For traction, you have 2 conditions of sheer, the ground, and the wheel. Not all urethane is created equal, so while 2 wheels may even be the exact same duro, width, urethane thickness, they won't always have the same sheer resistances. Example of poor sheer resistances would be vanilla wheels, like the 99A deluxes, I can slide sooo easy with them, not just cause they are hard, but because they literally leave white streaks/trails while hockey stopping.

The more wear resistance a wheel has for a given durometer, the more grip it will have, which is augmented by the trueness of the OD, or lack there of if cloned, and if it has grooves or is bald. Typically bald wheels are very cloned, so people don't get a good comparison of bald vs grooved. They don't take into consideration of the height inconsistencies which has an influence on grip.

Sheer resistance is why Scotties wheels have better grip than everything else out there.
There are still lots of variables that each floor presents as well as the wheels. I have skated Scotts that did not have much grip at all, then another set that did. Both were fairly new at the time and were broke in sets. There have only been two skate floors I have skated on that the grip was similar, both were coated within months of each other. Then grip and roll were similar. No tread gives you slightly better roll for sure. Im hoping the wheel/bearing tester is sensitive enough to show it.
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Old March 13th, 2018, 07:29 PM   #15
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There are still lots of variables that each floor presents as well as the wheels. I have skated Scotts that did not have much grip at all, then another set that did. Both were fairly new at the time and were broke in sets. There have only been two skate floors I have skated on that the grip was similar, both were coated within months of each other. Then grip and roll were similar. No tread gives you slightly better roll for sure. Im hoping the wheel/bearing tester is sensitive enough to show it.
No tread typically has a significantly reduced contact patch. Like 1/3rd of the wheel's width is not touching.
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Old March 13th, 2018, 09:23 PM   #16
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Carrying several sets of wheels is a luxury as long as wherever you are skating one set works. I have skated harder wheels on a floor that a softer wheel from the same lineage would slip. So many variables when a person skates different floors.
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Old March 14th, 2018, 10:49 AM   #17
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didnt know you had to go that deep
the wheel lathe i helped wayno with had shallow scoop and a slightly offset boatbow look from the top
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Old March 14th, 2018, 11:30 AM   #18
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didnt know you had to go that deep
the wheel lathe i helped wayno with had shallow scoop and a slightly offset boatbow look from the top
It really didn't have o be hat deep, it just turned out that way. My first bit for wheels
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Old March 14th, 2018, 12:13 PM   #19
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No tread typically has a significantly reduced contact patch. Like 1/3rd of the wheel's width is not touching.
If the wheel were completely rigid, that would be true. Given that you can get a urethane wheel to deflect with your thumb would seem to indicate that that the tread almost certainly deforms under a skater's weight.

The whole grooves/no grooves debate has raged for decades. I find it completely unlikely that there ever will be One True Answer.
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Old March 14th, 2018, 12:16 PM   #20
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If the wheel were completely rigid, that would be true. Given that you can get a urethane wheel to deflect with your thumb would seem to indicate that that the tread almost certainly deforms under a skater's weight.

The whole grooves/no grooves debate has raged for decades. I find it completely unlikely that there ever will be One True Answer.
I think wheel duro would play the major part in this variable.
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