S k a t e L o g     F o r u m
Inline Skating and Quad Roller Skating
Forum Hosts: Jessica Wright | Kathie Fry

FOLLOW US: Our Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Email    


Home - Forum Index - Africa Skating - Asia Skating - Europe Skating - Oceania Skating - Pan America Skating - Roller_Rinks - Friend the SkateLog Forum in Facebook - SkateLog Forum on Facebook

Forum Administrators: Jessica Wright and Kathie Fry | Email Us
Access code for buying and selling subforums: "skates"
How To Get a User Account and Posting Privileges in the SkateLog Forum
Use Google to Search the SkateLog Forum

Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Quad Roller Skating Forum
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 13th, 2019, 07:14 AM   #21
HeBeGB
Senior Member
 
HeBeGB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: BrisVegas, Australia
Posts: 153
Default

Powerdyne …
__________________
I'm not fast, but I make other people faster
HeBeGB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 13th, 2019, 09:03 AM   #22
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,361
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by HeBeGB View Post
Powerdyne …
Yeap. Chinesium alloy 9000! Lol it's not even 6061 that's for sure.

Maybe they should have spoken with a better engineer.. I fixed all their issues with the way the plate performs, and its durability problems with the truck and plate wear. (Not including the toestop boss here)

The plate is also cast, not forged or cnc'd out of billet. So it could be up to 3x stronger(average strength of cast vs billet).
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 13th, 2019, 09:03 AM   #23
leshomes
Senior Member
 
leshomes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Brisbane, Qld, Australia
Posts: 249
Default

Sounds like a lot of work to make them useable?
__________________
Bonts HDC/HeBeGb 165, HeBeGb Yeager’s 78mm 98A, Bont 167, Aussie Scott Thane (inc cushions)

Last edited by leshomes; February 13th, 2019 at 05:58 PM.
leshomes is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2019, 01:16 PM   #24
wired
Member
 
wired's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: KY USA
Posts: 2,379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilli Jam View Post
Hi Mort and Wired, thank you both so much for your helpful feedback and expert information dealing with the Arius Plates limitations.
You are welcome! For the Arius Mort is the guy. I tend to steer people to the Avenger since it gives a lot of versatility and value.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilli Jam View Post
So, I'll just keep using the little washers. It is disappointing that I, the consumer, would have to modify my wheels in order to properly use most of the sets I own. Just saying...
If you keep mucking with skate stuff you will find a LOT of variation! This fits that but not the other. At one point the space between wheel bearings was closer to .400" (Deanos most notably) instead of the more common .300" causing some wheels to not fit on some axles.

A lot has been made of the alleged strength of 8mm axles. In reality they most likely exist since 5/16" = 7.9375mm and 5/16" rod stock was a lot less expensive than 8mm in the US. Lousy fit, but they are skates and most consumers don't appear to care.

But hey, modification and creation is a lot of fun! Considerably less expensive to do in the skate world than many others...

.
__________________
Common wisdom is anything but...
wired is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2019, 08:13 PM   #25
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,361
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by wired View Post
You are welcome! For the Arius Mort is the guy. I tend to steer people to the Avenger since it gives a lot of versatility and value.




If you keep mucking with skate stuff you will find a LOT of variation! This fits that but not the other. At one point the space between wheel bearings was closer to .400" (Deanos most notably) instead of the more common .300" causing some wheels to not fit on some axles.

A lot has been made of the alleged strength of 8mm axles. In reality they most likely exist since 5/16" = 7.9375mm and 5/16" rod stock was a lot less expensive than 8mm in the US. Lousy fit, but they are skates and most consumers don't appear to care.

But hey, modification and creation is a lot of fun! Considerably less expensive to do in the skate world than many others...

.
Actually, the 7.93 to 7.94 mm od is just fine. The problem usually lies when a wheel has a bearing seat width and truck width combos which pushes the outer bearing into the smaller OD at the threads. It causes substantial endplay.

For example on an arius truck the width is 46.5mm, which leaves like 15 to 16mm shoulder. This is extremely problematic for micro bearing bont hubs. They have a 5mm wide bearing then a 12mm wide seat width, so the outer bearing rises in the 7.3 to 7.5mm of area. Which cocks the inner bearing at an angle. Micros are TINY and cannot deal with tha, even though it's not much , it wrecks them.

A RBT uses .280 seat width. That's just over 7mm. So 608 bearing plus the rbt bearing seat width puts ya at 14mm so your outer bearing is half supported on the correct part of the axle.

They need longer axles, OR, better threading
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 16th, 2019, 08:38 PM   #26
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,361
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by leshomes View Post
Sounds like a lot of work to make them useable?
No, they are quite good stock, but the problem is peoples lack of understanding what the setup needs. You can't just go throwing a bunch of torque on the axis pin. It distorts the truck office, which increases wear, and makes the plate harder to edge. Also the cushions need trimmed down on occasion, more so with the Gen1 versions.

They also dont need the "stabilization pins" which one can use to tune the plates individual edges. Front and rear, inside and outside edges. The platinum trucks can't do that.

Repedative hard edging can cause a cushion to split where it touches/is encapsulated by the baseplate. There is a hard 90 deg edge the cushion swells around when the plate is edged over. They would do well to bevel that edge a tiny bit to relieve stress.

There's a lot of small issues. However, you'll never get the power transfer on another quad plate that the arius setup has. It's a solid link. Kingpins lose some power transfer through the bushings.

There's reasons I can outrun skaters who use hockey inlines
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2019, 04:38 AM   #27
wired
Member
 
wired's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: KY USA
Posts: 2,379
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
There's reasons I can outrun skaters who use hockey inlines
You could probably do that on rentals...

.
__________________
Common wisdom is anything but...
wired is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2019, 03:53 PM   #28
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,361
Default Trying to keep it simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wired View Post
You could probably do that on rentals...

.
Lol I'll take that compliment, hahah. But I am speaking of equivalently(or near) skilled skaters. However my mount /plate alignment and length is NOT in an way standard. Center under heel, as the length of things are concerned, as long of a plate that will fit, the rear is pushed to the outside edge a small bit, and the front axle moved a bit to the inside edge.

I've tried so many peoples skates, and the plate alignments are always bad for speed it seems. The inner foot(outside edge) must be able to carve a sharper turn than the outer foots( inside edge).

Also the damn short plate crap... F that. When it's at it's best, it is only good for slow skating or "shuffle" skating, not speed skating in the least. To put down adequate power with stability, you need your balance points in check. Also a longer plate requires more lean as we all know. That lean reduces the articulation required of the ankle, so your actual push is more like an inline, which we all know is better at going fast than quads are.

Then there's the arius and its power transfer, and a properly setup one will only let the truck go the way the hinges allow. I'll be 39 this year, I skate only once a week, I do NO conditioning, running, weight training ect. at all and easily can outlast other quad skaters in their prime 18 to 30 on a hard speed skate. Even if they are fantastic skaters with good gear and nice setups that favor speed skating.

About the only thing that is crappy at all is sometimes in certain circumstances inside edging is difficult on the front axle if grip is extremely poor to do hard shuffle moves. But at that point my foot is just going to slide anyways so it's a non issue.
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2019, 05:19 PM   #29
fierocious1
Senior Member
 
fierocious1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,417
Default

Also the damn short plate crap... F that. When it's at it's best, it is only good for slow skating or "shuffle" skating, not speed skating in the least. To put down adequate power with stability, you need your balance points in check. Also a longer plate requires more lean as we all know. That lean reduces the articulation required of the ankle, so your actual push is more like an inline, which we all know is better at going fast than quads are.


That is what makes DA45 so good, that lean angle(input) can be changed. My quads skate a lot like inlines. Someday Mort I got to get up your way so you can give them a go.
__________________
"Liberal Logic", a phrase in conflict with itself.... dims = it's OK to kill babies.. real logic there..
fierocious1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 17th, 2019, 06:31 PM   #30
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,361
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fierocious1 View Post

That is what makes DA45 so good, that lean angle(input) can be changed. My quads skate a lot like inlines. Someday Mort I got to get up your way so you can give them a go.
The reason it changes is the way the truck yoke and the cushions interact. You can't adjust the cushion height without altering the angle the yoke sits on the kingpin. Even with an adjustable pivot. You change the way the cushion will deform because the truck yoke only sits perpendicular to the kingpin in a certain area.

Taller or shorter plate side cushions will move where the pivot pin rests in the cup. Ideally one would want the pivot pin to be centered in the cup. Adjustments may change the behavior a little, but it changes the stress points, and the amount of stress. Too much either way is bad.
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 18th, 2019, 12:34 PM   #31
fierocious1
Senior Member
 
fierocious1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 5,417
Default Not exactly...but close.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
The reason it changes is the way the truck yoke and the cushions interact. You can't adjust the cushion height without altering the angle the yoke sits on the kingpin. Even with an adjustable pivot. You change the way the cushion will deform because the truck yoke only sits perpendicular to the kingpin in a certain area.

Taller or shorter plate side cushions will move where the pivot pin rests in the cup. Ideally one would want the pivot pin to be centered in the cup. Adjustments may change the behavior a little, but it changes the stress points, and the amount of stress. Too much either way is bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
The reason it changes is the way the truck yoke and the cushions interact. You can't adjust the cushion height without altering the angle the yoke sits on the kingpin. Even with an adjustable pivot. You change the way the cushion will deform because the truck yoke only sits perpendicular to the kingpin in a certain area.
The cushions are moved toward and away from the plate with shims. The angle and geometry of the trucks load the pivots with the skater's weight, the angle is changed so little that there is viirtually no changes in stress. We are only talking about a thousands of an inch of change. I have found no need to make any changes in pivot pin adjustments because of the small amount of change in caster and shimming. If you are crushing cushions I would agree with you on deforming the cushions, but so little amounts of change is no issue for the cushions. My cushions are loosed enough that they can turn if they wanted to, but since the skates sit all 4 wheels flat on the floor, all the time, still not an issue. On DA45, it is an advantage to be able to manipulate the caster and not detrimental to handling or mechanical geometry. Ive not had a truck failure or any breakage. Btw, I use cones exclusively not barrels which also negates any issues with cushions.

[/QUOTE]Taller or shorter plate side cushions will move where the pivot pin rests in the cup. Ideally one would want the pivot pin to be centered in the cup. Adjustments may change the behavior a little, but it changes the stress points, and the amount of stress. Too much either way is bad.[/QUOTE]

Because of the angle and small amounts of shimming, the kp is still in the center, steep kp angle trucks cannot do that, the trucks will be pushed up and out. Behavior can be changes considerably stress is not an issue. Remember my plates are machined to allow taller cushions stacks or single tall cushions but still allows for correctly alignment of the trucks and pivots. If we were moving the trucks out of place by 10 degrees or more I might agree on the stress, but I just don't.

The stress issues and tuning issues you describe definitely apply to more vertical kp plates/truck design, not DA45s. The trucks move in an arc almost inline with the KP centerline, others do not.
__________________
"Liberal Logic", a phrase in conflict with itself.... dims = it's OK to kill babies.. real logic there..
fierocious1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 02:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.