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Slalom Cone Skating Forum Discussions about slalom cone skating, high-jump, and other freestyle trick skating. (Note that vert, street, and park skating discussions should be posted in our aggressive skating forum.)

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Old January 24th, 2015, 01:42 AM   #1
funster
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Default Advice for new slalom skates

Hi guys! I'm Nick and new to the forum. This old dog (okay more like a soon-to-be-middle-aged dog) is hoping to learn new tricks from the experts here.

Part of the reason I applied is that I'm getting quite desperate finding sage advice in picking a new pair of freeskating or slalom skates.

My old pair - which I used for almost 10 years and thousands of hours - was a Salomon Deemax 2 (RIP), which I replaced with a Seba High. A year later I still can't get used to this skate, and it's becoming very frustrating because I can't find the confidence to perform most of my old tricks.

I've changed out the wheels to the same config (72-76-80-72) as my old ones, and I'm now suspecting it may be the rockered frame (Deemax) vs non-rockered (Seba) that's causing me grief.

The Seba boot also feels like wearing heavy boots compared to the Deemax's old-loafers-like feel, though admittedly that may be from the many, many years of use. I would love to go back to a shorter frame (237mm) from my Seba's 243mm, but that length seems to be Salomon-specific and obviously non-existent now. Would hockey skates make sense in my case?

Am I looking at this wrong? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.
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Old January 24th, 2015, 03:12 AM   #2
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Hi funster (Nick), and welcome to SL forum!

To start with the skates you have now, the Seba High is a great skate but it's not for every foot/ankle (like with all skates really...). Also important to note; even for people that skate a lot and love their High's today it was usually not the case during the first 1-3 months, the High's are known to be hard to "break in". It sounds weird but if you do not skate much they may still not be properly set to your foot/ankle, even after a year... But then again they may not have been the right skate for you from the beginning, it's impossible to say for anyone here. Only you can feel whats going on and try to make sense of it.

What I can say is that for the straight (non-rockered) 4x80 frame of your High's the 72-76-80-72 does not make sense since all it does is tilt your foot forward (the 72-76-80 are all on the ground with the same pressure, not level but with an extra 8mm pitch from wheel no.3 to wheel no.1). And because of this wheel no.4 (72mm) is a full 12mm high up in the air doing nothing. My guess is this is a big part of why you can't do what you feel you should be able to do.
Try a 76-80-80-80 or a 76-80-80-76 setup if you want rocker on your straight 4x80 frame.

High's are relatively heavy compared to some other models, but nothing extreme and you should get used to that bit of extra weight quickly enough, actually the difference with the weight of the old Deemax 2's is not that much. I'm pretty sure you loved the Deemax 2's because they were comfy like slippers not because of them being light, since they were not.

No need to try hockey skates as it is also possible to get shorter frames for your High's, Seba makes all their freestyle frames (flat and rockered) in:
- 219mm (72mm Wheels Max.)
- 231mm (76mm Wheels Max.)
- 243mm (80mm Wheels Max.)

I think you are on the right track here asking for advise, that's always looking at it the right way if you ask me!

Cheers,
Andy.
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Old January 24th, 2015, 05:08 AM   #3
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Well met, Andy. Thanks for the useful advice.

I guess I will try your recommended wheel configs and give it another go before looking at a new frame (didn't know I could get 231mm frames by Seba retrofitted).

The Highs are well-regarded so I was fairly certain the problem laid with me or my assumptions. Cheers.
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Old January 29th, 2015, 03:30 PM   #4
Oicusk82huh
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What is the European size of your Sebas? Are they High's or High Lights?
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Old January 30th, 2015, 02:44 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
What is the European size of your Sebas? Are they High's or High Lights?
Hi Oicusk, it's EU 42.5, UK 8.5, or US 9.5 - Seba Highs.

I've checked and it turned out I was already on 72-76-76-72... I just changed it to 72-72-76-76 and it felt even less maneuverable.

I'm seriously thinking now of just buying the 231mm frame (219 seems a little overkill as I think it's harder to find wheels for < 72mm). My previous Salomon skates were worn very loose and I felt far more control than I do now.
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Old January 30th, 2015, 06:56 PM   #6
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Hmmm. Difficult to figure out! Generally seems that Seba's over a Euro size 41 come withe the size frame that you have which is 243. Again, like most things it's personal taste. I find a size 231 way easier, but my shoe is smaller.

Do you find these less manueverable, or less stable? I hate to say it, but if it's been over a year and you still dont like them....maybe a new set of skates would be the way to go. Have you thought about new FSX's? That may be the fit you like.

The Seba Highs were much tighter with long break in, Seba fixed that with the new High Lights. Maybe someone else could give you some pointers, hope you find something great.
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Old January 31st, 2015, 06:03 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
Hmmm. Difficult to figure out! Generally seems that Seba's over a Euro size 41 come withe the size frame that you have which is 243. Again, like most things it's personal taste. I find a size 231 way easier, but my shoe is smaller.

Do you find these less manueverable, or less stable? I hate to say it, but if it's been over a year and you still dont like them....maybe a new set of skates would be the way to go. Have you thought about new FSX's? That may be the fit you like.

The Seba Highs were much tighter with long break in, Seba fixed that with the new High Lights. Maybe someone else could give you some pointers, hope you find something great.
Yeah I understand about the smaller boot = smaller frame, but I'm definitely missing my 237mm Salomon boot/frame and would absolutely buy another FSK if I could.

Nothing feels right and I do not feel relaxed when I skate anymore. The FSKs used to feel like a true extension of my feet but not these. I'm thinking if hockey boots - which have more flexibility than these slalom hardboots - would suit my style better.

Thanks for your insights.
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Old February 2nd, 2015, 09:53 PM   #8
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Default Related question...to all...

What size skates and what size frames are other skaters on? Anyone?

For example I use a size 39 skate with a 231mm frame. I also have a size 40 skates and they came with a size 243 frame. I had difficulty doing tricks on my heels and toes until I went with a size 231 frame. I definitely have a harder time controllong the bigger skates (and sometimes get blisters from them).

Soooo...

This post got me wondering. For example, is anyone out there on big size skates with a 219mm frame, or a really small frame, and what's that like?

Any input? Also did you guys see Seba's new rockered colored frames!!!?? I think I just want a pair of those gold ones, so probably just looking for an excuse to try a 219mm frame. Anyone?

Also, funster, I know a guy that skates slalom on hockey skates, he loves them.
That could be an option.
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Old February 5th, 2015, 05:44 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
What size skates and what size frames are other skaters on? Anyone?

For example I use a size 39 skate with a 231mm frame. I also have a size 40 skates and they came with a size 243 frame. I had difficulty doing tricks on my heels and toes until I went with a size 231 frame. I definitely have a harder time controllong the bigger skates (and sometimes get blisters from them).

Soooo...

This post got me wondering. For example, is anyone out there on big size skates with a 219mm frame, or a really small frame, and what's that like?

Any input? Also did you guys see Seba's new rockered colored frames!!!?? I think I just want a pair of those gold ones, so probably just looking for an excuse to try a 219mm frame. Anyone?

Also, funster, I know a guy that skates slalom on hockey skates, he loves them.
That could be an option.
Just googled the new Seba frames and loving the gold color as well!

219mm means 72mm wheels and below only, making it tough to find wheels for them, at least where I am. If I do get the 231mm rockered frames, I could theoretically try a 68-72-76-72 config, which hopefully would take it closer to my earlier UFS frames.

Guess I've got a few more options to explore - thanks for the useful advice!
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Old February 10th, 2015, 01:47 PM   #10
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Hi,

There are also specialised frames outside of Seba if you are able to find them (not all skate shops stock these - your best bet is online). These specialised frames can come in a variety of lengths to suit everyone.

For example, I am using a pair of 238 frames, which JUST accommodate a 76-80-80-76 setup. As a result, I cannot fit a flat setup of 80's when using this frame.

There are also pre-rockered frame options. With these frames, you will expect to feel that your configuration is slightly longer than the normal variation. A prerockered set of 243's can fit four 80's, which mean the front and back wheel should stick out 2mm further than what you might be used to.

If you feel that 231's are too short and 243's too long, I can recommend a prerockered pair of 231's or a pair of 238/239's.

219's are extremely small, and I wouldn't recommend going for those. The maneuverability may be better, but you would be trading this for power or fluidity than when you use a longer frame. Most skaters around size mid 30's to mid 40's opt for frame lengths between 231-243. It is completely preference

(Freewave korea, Gyro, other Korean manufacturers are some example of companies that produce frames not Seba or Powerslide)

I'm using a size 39 boot and on 238 frames.

EDIT: I am going to assume that you are quite a regular skater - is the Seba Highs inflexible at the ankle, or do they just feel tight? Seba highs are meant to be quite rigid laterally (side to side), but will become more flexible in the back to front (forgot the word) direction
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Old February 12th, 2015, 02:55 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by kev0 View Post
Hi,

There are also specialised frames outside of Seba if you are able to find them (not all skate shops stock these - your best bet is online). These specialised frames can come in a variety of lengths to suit everyone.

For example, I am using a pair of 238 frames, which JUST accommodate a 76-80-80-76 setup. As a result, I cannot fit a flat setup of 80's when using this frame.

There are also pre-rockered frame options. With these frames, you will expect to feel that your configuration is slightly longer than the normal variation. A prerockered set of 243's can fit four 80's, which mean the front and back wheel should stick out 2mm further than what you might be used to.

If you feel that 231's are too short and 243's too long, I can recommend a prerockered pair of 231's or a pair of 238/239's.

219's are extremely small, and I wouldn't recommend going for those. The maneuverability may be better, but you would be trading this for power or fluidity than when you use a longer frame. Most skaters around size mid 30's to mid 40's opt for frame lengths between 231-243. It is completely preference

(Freewave korea, Gyro, other Korean manufacturers are some example of companies that produce frames not Seba or Powerslide)

I'm using a size 39 boot and on 238 frames.

EDIT: I am going to assume that you are quite a regular skater - is the Seba Highs inflexible at the ankle, or do they just feel tight? Seba highs are meant to be quite rigid laterally (side to side), but will become more flexible in the back to front (forgot the word) direction
Well met kev0... I'm currently in Singapore but have a house in Melbourne where my wife is residing atm.

I'm using size 43 and I haven't seen these 238 frames before. I called a nearby shop and turns out they have a nice range of Seba frames.

I didn't see any 238 options but I'll look it up, though the prerockered 231 might be my next choice if the 238s aren't available. It's always nice to have something to fall back on.

Thanks for yr insight.
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Old February 15th, 2015, 09:04 AM   #12
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Default Singapore, seriously?

Hey funster, way off topic, but my boyfriend, my son and I want to visit Singapore soon. It looks like the greatest place to skate, I saw a video of a family skating from Ion Orchard to the Sands at night. The Helix bridge is sooo bad! There seems to be a lot of underground tunnels, are these connected to Ion Orchard, or just walkways? Can't tell. Are you allowed to skate there with no trouble? One last question (because I have noone to ask in Singapore) what is the best time of year for good weather there?

The Sands is crazy expensive and there are like a million hotels, any suggestion? I'm sure I could find all info online, but just thought I'd pick your brain.

Oh yeah, and it looks like MANY slalomers too.

SORRY THIS WAS WAYYYYY OFF TOPIC.

Oh, I found it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3D-aAqCIYs
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Old February 16th, 2015, 02:07 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
Hey funster, way off topic, but my boyfriend, my son and I want to visit Singapore soon. It looks like the greatest place to skate, I saw a video of a family skating from Ion Orchard to the Sands at night. The Helix bridge is sooo bad! There seems to be a lot of underground tunnels, are these connected to Ion Orchard, or just walkways? Can't tell. Are you allowed to skate there with no trouble? One last question (because I have noone to ask in Singapore) what is the best time of year for good weather there?

The Sands is crazy expensive and there are like a million hotels, any suggestion? I'm sure I could find all info online, but just thought I'd pick your brain.

Oh yeah, and it looks like MANY slalomers too.

SORRY THIS WAS WAYYYYY OFF TOPIC.

Oh, I found it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3D-aAqCIYs
Whoa that vid looks cool~ loving the family theme- I met my wife through skating actually, though she has completely stopped years ago.

In terms of accommodations, it depends on your budget but there are dozens of decent ones in the city. There's no real need to go to Marina Bay Sands (MBS), though it's really nice and central (with a train station of its own). And obviously expensive to boot.

There's plenty of solid mid-range (US$70 to $120?) accommodation in the city - Chinatown or around CBD.
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Old February 17th, 2015, 01:50 AM   #14
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Just wanted to say thanks. Any luck with the skates?
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Old February 17th, 2015, 07:13 AM   #15
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Just wanted to say thanks. Any luck with the skates?
As it happened, I finally found time to go down to a shop I was itching to check out for weeks.

Unfortunately, they had no stock for the rockered 231mm I was looking for, though they did have flat 231s in shiny gold. So tempting~

I'm a little torn.

Anyways, thanks for yr help and have a great trip
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Old February 18th, 2015, 12:41 PM   #16
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Hi,

Melbourne is a fantastic place for skating these days. The winter was rainier than usual, but the summer was also more mild than previous years. I've skated at Singapore a few times over the years, and I always found it too difficult to skate under the heat for prolonged periods of time. (Although I hear that there are sometimes skaters down at the Esplanade - this was a while back though)

---

http://www.free-wave.co.kr/

If you are interested in exploring non-seba options. Freewave are probably the most popular off market slalom frame producers, and they stock a variety of frames pre-rockered to 238's

Additionally, if you are versed in Chinese, you may also try taobao (Chinese e-bay?) for frames such as IS frames:

http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm=...ucket=7#detail

Just be extremely careful for counterfeit frames, so I wouldn't recommend it unless you are willing to take the risk, or know someone who can vouch for a particular seller. Your mileage with counterfeit frames may vary. (I bought a pair of 30 dollar frames, and they weren't even straight).

---

Finally, I can't really guarantee you would like the pre-rockered 231's as much as flat 231's either. You would need to try both and make the judgement yourself. If 231's are too short and flat 243's are too long, pre-rockered 231's are the in between.

If flat 231's are too long and 219's too short, there are also a very small number of frames made in 224(?)
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Old February 27th, 2015, 01:41 PM   #17
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Sorry this response (my first post, woo!) is a bit late. It took a while to get registered

Let me start by being clear how I use my terminology. By "rockered", I mean a set-up where either the axle heights or wheel sizes are design/selected to emulate a curved ice blade, that rocks for manoeuvrability. By "HiLo" I mean an inline frame where the rear pair of axles are set higher than the front pair, so that the skate can take larger wheels for a given sole height than if the axles were flat.

Solomon Deemax skates were HiLo rather than rockered, with the rear pair 2mm higher than the front pair. The statndard set-up was 76-76-80-80mm to give a flat roll. To rocker then for freestyle the usual set-up would be 72-76-80-76mm, giving a "banana rocker" of 2mm front and rear. (It's the difference in radius, not diameter that you need to use for the maths)

72-76-80-72mm would give an extreme rear flick of 4mm, which I guess some may find suits their style.

On a flat frame, like the Seba High, you would get the same banana rocker with the 76-80-80-76mm set-up. If you go for a 231mm frame to shorten your wheel base, then you will need 72-76-76-72mm to get a 2mm banana.

Basically Seba always leave 1mm between wheels for a flat setup of the max wheel size for each of their frames.

In other words:
255mm = 3 x 85mm (84mm max)
243mm = 3 x 81mm (80mm max)
231mm = 3 x 77mm (76mm max)
219mm = 3 x 73mm (72mm max)

In turn those sizes are becoming a de facto standard these days.

I hope this helps clarify options, not only for funster, but for others who read the thread looking for info.
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