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Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

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Old August 21st, 2018, 11:37 PM   #1
Oicusk82huh
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Default New Skate

Hi guys. I just got a new boot yesterday and wanted to thank Ancient1 and everyone else for recommending a new skate in another post. I couldn't remember which post it was in, so I just wanted to share my experience. I have a case of SEDS, it's true. After realizing how much difference a plate could make I decided to go for it and get a new set up.

My new boot is more of a disco-style skating boot in my opinion, but it could be considered an art boot. I got the Riedell 172 with a Roll Line Mistral plate. It has an edea insole and a Noene Undersole. I got Roll Line Ice wheels 95A. So I took them out for a session last night. It was a short session, only 3 hours.

How do you explain the difference a skate can make? The Mistral is surprisingly similar to the Matrix Steel, but the Ice wheels (or maybe the boot) may be what's making the big difference. The skate is surprising light compared to my friends skates with Snyder plates. I'm not great with explaining exactly how the new skates make a difference, but they really do. They seem to respond to every single move I make. It's almost like micro-movements, it's like the boot is responding directly to my thought pattern. The Noene Undersole is like having complete shock absorption. My knees are thanking me already. I'm gonna get one more for a second layer. The skates are a dream come true. They are truly making a difference.

I came home and tried on my old 120 boot and now I get it. They were an absolutely fantastic introduction boot. But I think I just skate too much for one pair of skates. At times I'll skate a 6hour session and wow, there's just no getting the sweat out of those, especially when I skate the next day. Stinky. The new skates are a dream come true. Like getting a new Porche after driving a Mercury. Thanks again for any advice and help. Feel like a new person. You guys are a truly a fantastic resource.
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Old August 22nd, 2018, 06:00 AM   #2
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Congrats on the 172 boot. I think you have one hell of a good boot, and you are welcome. My first real boot back in 1972 was a Riedell 192 which was discontinued shortly after I got my first pair. I was really upset. I loved that boot but the 172 looks a lot like the 192 and I think you will be very happy with it.

I am so glad you did get that boot instead of using the 120. HUGE HUGE difference and will let you progress much faster. I like the very high top which will give the ankle support and still have flexibility. The 172 (Rhythm) and the 297 (professional) are the 2 boots I am next considering. Since I am in my mid 60's I like the thought of a Combat Looks and high top with the flexibility of a Rhythm boot so the 172 is in the running for me.

Thanks for sharing this with us. It's nice to see that recommendations aren't useless to others...



Quote:
Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
Hi guys. I just got a new boot yesterday and wanted to thank Ancient1 and everyone else for recommending a new skate in another post. I couldn't remember which post it was in, so I just wanted to share my experience. I have a case of SEDS, it's true. After realizing how much difference a plate could make I decided to go for it and get a new set up.

My new boot is more of a disco-style skating boot in my opinion, but it could be considered an art boot. I got the Riedell 172 with a Roll Line Mistral plate. It has an edea insole and a Noene Undersole. I got Roll Line Ice wheels 95A. So I took them out for a session last night. It was a short session, only 3 hours.

How do you explain the difference a skate can make? The Mistral is surprisingly similar to the Matrix Steel, but the Ice wheels (or maybe the boot) may be what's making the big difference. The skate is surprising light compared to my friends skates with Snyder plates. I'm not great with explaining exactly how the new skates make a difference, but they really do. They seem to respond to every single move I make. It's almost like micro-movements, it's like the boot is responding directly to my thought pattern. The Noene Undersole is like having complete shock absorption. My knees are thanking me already. I'm gonna get one more for a second layer. The skates are a dream come true. They are truly making a difference.

I came home and tried on my old 120 boot and now I get it. They were an absolutely fantastic introduction boot. But I think I just skate too much for one pair of skates. At times I'll skate a 6hour session and wow, there's just no getting the sweat out of those, especially when I skate the next day. Stinky. The new skates are a dream come true. Like getting a new Porche after driving a Mercury. Thanks again for any advice and help. Feel like a new person. You guys are a truly a fantastic resource.
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Old August 22nd, 2018, 06:08 AM   #3
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Congrats on the new setup! I just got my skates back today (riedell 220 boot with sure grip super deluxe plate) and I can't believe how different they feel compared to my 120s with the powerdyne plate. The boot is way more comfortable and the plate gives me so much support and balance. I've even loosened up the trucks pretty good and with 2 hours of practice, I'm near being comfortable with them as I am with my other skates.

I haven't been on any roll line plates but the guys I know who skate em say they are the best. I figure I'll skate these for awhile and then get a setup like the edea classica boot with the roll line dance plate. I'm stuck on all American plus wheels and bones swiss bearings so I'll use those.
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Old August 22nd, 2018, 06:19 AM   #4
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I skated on the 220 for several years and it is a great boot. Can't go wrong with that boot either. The 220 was the boot I went to after I could no longer get a 192 and it served me up into my triple jumps. Great boot even though it is considered an intermediate boot and it can take you to the top.



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Congrats on the new setup! I just got my skates back today (riedell 220 boot with sure grip super deluxe plate) and I can't believe how different they feel compared to my 120s with the powerdyne plate. The boot is way more comfortable and the plate gives me so much support and balance. I've even loosened up the trucks pretty good and with 2 hours of practice, I'm near being comfortable with them as I am with my other skates.

I haven't been on any roll line plates but the guys I know who skate em say they are the best. I figure I'll skate these for awhile and then get a setup like the edea classica boot with the roll line dance plate. I'm stuck on all American plus wheels and bones swiss bearings so I'll use those.
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Old August 22nd, 2018, 11:05 AM   #5
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I skated on the 220 for several years and it is a great boot. Can't go wrong with that boot either. The 220 was the boot I went to after I could no longer get a 192 and it served me up into my triple jumps. Great boot even though it is considered an intermediate boot and it can take you to the top.
the 220 today is different from your days,,,,unless u used it in the past 15 years or so,,,,,more like the gold star was of the old days
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Old August 22nd, 2018, 04:21 PM   #6
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Rick,
Yes, you are correct. Not the same boot. I have heard that the 220 retro is the old style 220.


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the 220 today is different from your days,,,,unless u used it in the past 15 years or so,,,,,more like the gold star was of the old days
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Old August 23rd, 2018, 11:31 AM   #7
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Rick,
Yes, you are correct. Not the same boot. I have heard that the 220 retro is the old style 220.
nice didn't know they have a retro lol
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Old August 23rd, 2018, 12:13 PM   #8
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here is the link to the retro: https://www.roller.riedellskates.com...odel-220-Retro

I don't see a link to the new 220 so maybe they discontinued the new and went back to the old. who knows...


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nice didn't know they have a retro lol
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Old August 24th, 2018, 11:19 AM   #9
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here is the link to the retro: https://www.roller.riedellskates.com...odel-220-Retro

I don't see a link to the new 220 so maybe they discontinued the new and went back to the old. who knows...
thanks,,,,cool but wasn't a great boot then, beginners lol
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Old August 26th, 2018, 12:55 AM   #10
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Just wanted to share....
I LOVE MY NEW SKATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm glad I didn't go too advance and get a really stiff boot. The new 172 is just stiff enough for me (yeah, newer skater/beginner), but the higher heal and comfort is just right. I imagine they are less stiff than the higher-end boots. I don't lace them up all the way, I wear them disco style, tongue out. I feel my style has gotten better with the increased ankle flexibility. But honestly I haven't had a chance to try any figures yet, mostly rhythm/jb skating. Should I lace them up higher when trying art style/figures? I can't believe what a good skate they are (with the exception of the insole. Why would Riedell insoles be so garbage? I had to have them swapped for a nice set of Edea insoles with the Noene undersole.

The only reason I keep bugging you guys in the artistic section is because it seems like the rest of the skating forum is on speed skates. It just seems like two completely different things.
About the 220's, how do the new ones differ from the old ones? Is there anything specific? It's a boot I'd love to try.
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Old August 26th, 2018, 02:39 AM   #11
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Smile Thanks for the updates on your skates!

Most of your skates and intentions...120, 172, 192 and 297 seem to be on par with the history of skating and apparel and equipment.

1) I like your choice of wheels. The Ice wheels seem to be a little older. Newcomers might be using Komplex and STD and old schoolers like the Bones 101A or 103A.

a) Personally I like a combination of ICE 97A on the outside wheels, ICE 92A for the inside push wheel and the ICE 95A for inside back wheels. What I'm saying is I'm skating on ICE Wheels and they are the perfect combination of grip and roll...lol!

2) I agree with the High Heels on the artistic Boots. My EDEA Concerto Boots have high heels, but that is not what I'm skating on for my Dance and Figure boots. I think that is a mistake. I chose Berry for comfort. I hope your new boots fit you. My Berry Boots fit perfect for comfort, but I'm debating the High Heel on the Artistic Boots that may be the ticket or better way to go.

a) I recently bought a new pair of Berry Boots. Only two like it in the world. But they have the low heel found on many boots and many people take the high heels and cut it down for some reason. I got a feeling this is a mistake.

My new Berry boots are the "Touch" three hook with a special order soft inner soles, Like the Reidell 336 or the Harlic Custom Dance boots.

3) You talk about your plates. Minstral, which I think are good plates and your Matrix which I know are expensive plates and about the Synders which are heavy...really heavy..they are tanks...lol!

4) I'm debating what my next skate build should be. I have all the skates and boots already purchased, but what boots and what plates shall I use when I put them together?????

a) I'm thinking about mounting my Synder Royals, Titanium (cost 550.00)
to my newly bought one of kind Berry Touch boots, semi tall boot and medium heel, with the soft interiors, using my very expensive Bones Ceramic bearings and maybe just buying a new set of Bones 101A wheels or using my tried and trued, tested ICE 97A/95A/92A combination. I have three boxes of Ice wheels. Once you like something you seem to hoard...lol!

Thanks for all the input. It's affecting my theory on skates and what to compete on.

My Figures skates are Roll Line "Ring" and My Dance Plates are Roll Line "Dance". And my freestyle skates are "Energy" although I have a brand new set of "Matrix" Steel that have been sitting on my kitchen table for two years now, brand new. They just stair me in the face and I wonder what to do with them?

Sincerely,

Larry O and thanks for all the updates. I appreciate it!
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Old August 26th, 2018, 12:24 PM   #12
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Hi Oicusk82huh,

You aren't bothering us at all. We each have our favorite equipment and our favorite styles and we know that opinions vary. We love to help others in our sport to better themselves. So ask away...

I also don't like a really stiff boot and the reason is that I love footwork and the speed that a softer ankle support provides. I also feel that with less ridged support that the ankle has a chance to exercise and become stronger. This is just my own theory but I aways did have strong ankles.

I have not skated in the newer 220 boot so I never felt the difference. I was told that it is much stiffer. I skated in the (what is called) older style which was a bit tough to break in but became very flexible. It had 2 layers, and it was basic build with no fluff. I liken it to a car with no air-conditioning and no power windows. It has what you need but nothing more. I liked it once I broke the boots in.

The 172 looks to be close to the older 220 with no frills but a bit taller. For Artistic skating I would recommend lacing up enough so that the tongue doesn't stick out. I always laced all the way up but didn't lace a set of eyes where the joint was to allow joint flexibility. Not sure if it helped me any but it felt like it did.

I was able to keep up with the speed skaters on my artistic setup (220, Snyder Super Deluxe, Fomac FreeStyle or similar wheels) and I did all my practice and competitions with those skates. I felt as though I was on my feet and not on skates with them. I could do anything with complete balance as good or even better than I could off the skates (but it took a few thousand hours of practice to get to that point). I would get off from school about noon (we had a split school shift) and by 2 I was at the rink which was in walking distance. Sometimes I would get there earlier than 2pm. I would practice till almost 5pm and I had the floor all to myself. I would walk home and eat dinner with my grandmother and then either walk to work (3 times a week to pay for my skating) or walk back to the rink to practice till closing and a little after closing. Then walk home to shower and get some sleep before school. On Saturday and Sunday I would get there between 7am and 8am and skate till midnight with the exception of walking home to eat dinner. It was a wonderful time. After my school years I went into the USAF and would be at the rink for about 4 to 6 hours a day. And throughout those years I kept that same skate configuration and skated freestyle and dance and sometimes figures. Just a simple basic skate setup and I was doing triple jumps. Go figure...







Quote:
Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
Just wanted to share....
I LOVE MY NEW SKATES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm glad I didn't go too advance and get a really stiff boot. The new 172 is just stiff enough for me (yeah, newer skater/beginner), but the higher heal and comfort is just right. I imagine they are less stiff than the higher-end boots. I don't lace them up all the way, I wear them disco style, tongue out. I feel my style has gotten better with the increased ankle flexibility. But honestly I haven't had a chance to try any figures yet, mostly rhythm/jb skating. Should I lace them up higher when trying art style/figures? I can't believe what a good skate they are (with the exception of the insole. Why would Riedell insoles be so garbage? I had to have them swapped for a nice set of Edea insoles with the Noene undersole.

The only reason I keep bugging you guys in the artistic section is because it seems like the rest of the skating forum is on speed skates. It just seems like two completely different things.
About the 220's, how do the new ones differ from the old ones? Is there anything specific? It's a boot I'd love to try.
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Old August 26th, 2018, 12:36 PM   #13
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Hi Larry,
I guess you will figure out what setup is best for you. I never skated on the Royal plate. I stuck with the super deluxe. Yes it is like a tank and I broken the king pins several times and busted the rivets several times holding the hangers. I was only about 175 lbs at the time but I could jump high and jump a lot and I was tough on those TANKS of a skate. I have decided that when I come back that I will go back to the super deluxe for several reasons such as: my old muscle memory, strength of those tanks, superstition (yes I get superstitious when I jump and like certain area's to practice).

I guess that superstition really does have some basis, such as the floor being more slick or tighter or there was abuse in some spots causing me to spill easier. What ever the reason I would favor or avoid certain area's till just before a competition meet and then practice in the not so friendly zone to avoid some mental hang ups. After competition I would go back to my regular superstitious places to jump and spin. I think it helped a lot because I could concentrate on the NOW and not what IF.

Good luck with your new/proposed setup. I think you will like it.
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Old August 27th, 2018, 12:54 AM   #14
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Smile Thanks everybody on the posts on skates!...lol!

Jim also thanks for all the posts! They are very encouraging and every post on different skate combinations helps me understand the differences and the reasons for using different boots, plates and wheels.

I was surprised to find if you go to the Roll Line Web page it will tell you that the "Energy" plate is one of the few plates that is rated high in dance and figures and excellent in freestyle. The "Dance" plate is that and is not recommended for figures or freestyle. And the "Matrix" plate is rated excellent for Freestyle and not recommended for Dance and Figures. Go figure.

So, the best plate for doing it all is the "Energy". And although I have never skated on the Deluxe plate, I got a feeling it is a exact replica of the "Energy" only heavier and for a heavy person like yourself, I say stick with the "Deluxe".

I only mention the Royal, because it is the titanium version of the Synder Imperial and is the skate I always skated on. That was what was recommended to me and that is the skate of "choice"..for me...lol!

As for wheels the Fomac was a hard clay wheel and any of the small diameter Roll Line Freestye wheels, to me are the same. As and Example I run a small diameter Roll Line wheel of hardness 97-99A. That is hard and to me not much different than a Fomac. Go figure!...lol!

3) And although you like softer boots, most of my boots are softer for Dance and Figures. The only really stiff boot I have is for Freestyle....The EDEA Concerto at 85 stiffness. A lot of people like the Roller Fly and that is only 55 stiffness. I grew up on a Gold Star, Custom fitted to my feet and it was board stiff. But after 4 month of breaking them in doing doubles, that boot was manageable and the only boot I wore/had for figures, Dance and Freestyle.

Sincerely

Larry Otani
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Old August 27th, 2018, 03:05 AM   #15
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Larry O- Those Berry boots are so amazing. I want those boots! Oh God, I really don't need more boots, but Berry's are soooooo amazing. Have you ever thought about putting your Matrix on a set of Berrys? I'm new, so if that's a dumb question, apologies.

Ancient 1- I understand about wanting to and having the ability to practice for so many hours. When I started ice skating a few years ago I became so obsessed that I was taking 3 different lessons at 3 different arenas and would practice figures alone for 4hours straight. Sounds like a great memory.

So much to say. Recently I've gotten better at outside double 3 turns, but could never really figure out how to do inside ones. The first time out on my new skates, I figured out the inside double 3's. I did have help from friends. I feel like the stiffness of the boot combined with the stable but super twisty plates, allowed me to do that. Something about the plate. When I look down at my plate it seems to be almost too wobbly. But somehow that is translating into more stability. They look too wobbly, but are actually more stable. Does this make sense, or do I sound crazy? I had to compensate a bit for a softer wheel, but when I'm skating, it feels like I'm skating on silk.

I think the next thing I'll try is different wheel hardness combos. Maybe I'll try Larry O's set up. It sounds like fun. What do you think?
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Old August 27th, 2018, 04:31 AM   #16
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Smile Mounting Berry Boots to Roll Line Matrix Plates.

Quote:
Larry O- Those Berry boots are so amazing. I want those boots! Oh God, I really don't need more boots, but Berry's are soooooo amazing. Have you ever thought about putting your Matrix on a set of Berrys? I'm new, so if that's a dumb question, apologies.
Berry makes a really stiff boot. For some reason they call it, or use it for Figures only. I don't know why figure skates need the stiffest boot? Why?

So yes, if I ever purchased a pair of the Stiffest boots Berry makes I would mount them to my Matrix Plates for doing freestyle only, not figures!

1) I have the Berry 2 ring Dance Boots mounted to a Roll Line Dance plate.

2) I have a 3 ring Berry Freestyle/figure boot mounted to my Roll Line figure "Ring" plates.

3) Berry make a Figure boot that is stiffer than the Freestyle/Figure boot they presently sell. That is the boot I think I would need to do freestyle in and I would mount it to the Matrix plate.

Sincerely,

Larry O
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Old August 27th, 2018, 05:23 AM   #17
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Smile Roll Line Mistral Plate? Precise truck action but stable.

Quote:
Something about the plate. When I look down at my plate it seems to be almost too wobbly.
I know what you mean...lol! I think my Giotto and Energy Plates do the same thing. I think that is because we run loose trucks.

Quote:
But somehow that is translating into more stability.
Although they wobble, they don't really move that much/change direction that much as they are wobbling. The change of direction is very slow and smooth, but exact! If you can imagine that???????

Quote:
They look too wobbly, but are actually more stable.
Like I said a lot of wobble, but at the same time a lot of stable. They are not actually changing direction but are prepared to turn at a moments glance, but turn just a little bit but exactly, making it a very controllable plate.

Quote:
Does this make sense, or do I sound crazy?
Nope, that is what make the plate so predictable, so precise and so easy to skate on. I think that is why you can use if for so many disciplines...dance, figures and freestyle. Other plates are only good for one discipline because they are tuned for one type of stability. Dance plate are good for giant radical turns and freestyle plates are mainly for stable landing, where the rear trucks turn less than the front trucks.

Quote:
I had to compensate a bit for a softer wheel, but when I'm skating, it feels like I'm skating on silk.
Those wheels are slick and beautiful...like skating on ice, but they are a little soft and tend to grip on three turns and would grab to much for spins. A harder wheel would be necessary. Although the Ice 97A is harder, I think you would prefer a smaller and harder wheel...like maybe the freestyle 99A or maybe a Bones 101A or possibly even the Bones 103A. The strictly figure wheels by Komplex...yellow wheels would be excellent for turn figures...double inner or outer three turns.

Sincerely,

Larry O
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Old August 27th, 2018, 07:12 AM   #18
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Now that I know what a stiffer boot feels like, I think that at some point in the future I will probably put my Steel Matrix on another boot. I still wouldn't go too stiff, (stiff for me is probably not that stiff to someone else). It would be interesting to see how that would handle. I'm so leaning toward a Berry. I would like to have two pairs of skates at all times.

Before then, while my steel Matrix is still on my old 120 boot, I'm gonna try some Roll Line wheels on those. Currently on Varsity Radar Plus. I'm extremely impressed with the Ice wheels and was thinking about maybe trying The Roll Line Leopard or Mustang with the Matrix steel. I really enjoy spinning on that plate. Would this combo make sense... Matrix Steel and Leopard or Mustang wheels?

I may have SEDS. But it's because each time I've tried something new, it has turned out to be a dream come true. I don't think it's luck. I think it's your help.
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Old August 28th, 2018, 06:45 AM   #19
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Smile Boy or Girl...lol, that is a tough choice.

Personally I'm running the Leopard 99A on my Energy plates and I'm running a stiff, 85 rating EDEA Concerto Boot.

Although I love my Berry boots, I'm not running the Berry Boots on my freestyle skates. Would I run a Berry boot on my Steel Matrix plates???

Maybe, I haven't decided yet, but maybe no...I just don't know.

I do know this many people like the Rediell 297 boot for Dance or Freestyle.

And that would be a logical choice for you, going from the 120.

That Radar Plus is a 101A wheel and probably serves you well, but you do like your ICE 95 Wheels. This is just a guess, but I think you would like the Mustang 95A wheels. I'm asumming the ICE wheels are 63MM,

Good luck and keep us posted. Later on if you bought the Berry Boot or the Rediell 297, I think the Leopard wheels at 97A hardness would be better.

My theory is this. Stiffer boots, get harder wheels. Less stiff boots require grippier wheels...like the Mustang 95A, with a 120 boot.
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Old August 28th, 2018, 02:52 PM   #20
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Default Mustang 97A Wheels

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Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post
Personally I'm running the Leopard 99A on my Energy plates and I'm running a stiff, 85 rating EDEA Concerto Boot.

Although I love my Berry boots, I'm not running the Berry Boots on my freestyle skates. Would I run a Berry boot on my Steel Matrix plates???

Maybe, I haven't decided yet, but maybe no...I just don't know.

I do know this many people like the Rediell 297 boot for Dance or Freestyle.

And that would be a logical choice for you, going from the 120.

That Radar Plus is a 101A wheel and probably serves you well, but you do like your ICE 95 Wheels. This is just a guess, but I think you would like the Mustang 95A wheels. I'm asumming the ICE wheels are 63MM,

Good luck and keep us posted. Later on if you bought the Berry Boot or the Rediell 297, I think the Leopard wheels at 97A hardness would be better.

My theory is this. Stiffer boots, get harder wheels. Less stiff boots require grippier wheels...like the Mustang 95A, with a 120 boot.
The Roll-Line panther wheel is 95A.
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Riedell 336, Roll-Line Mistral, Roll-Line Panthers. Swiss Labyrinth II .
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