Switching from speed to dance

Dekindy · December 16th, 2017, 02:05 AM

Currently have Riedell 695 boot(so heel, not flat), Powerdyne Neo Reactor plate, and Suregrip Zombie 92 wheels.

Originally started skating with the goal of becoming a roller derby referee so speed skates were the best choice. Goals change and now I want to session skate, rhythm and jam and dance is the skating that I want to do. Taking lessons from a very good skater and he recommends a higher top boot with more heel.

Thinking about a EDEA Classica boot, Roll Line Variant plate, and Rollerbones Elite wheels 103's.

Different type boots, more reactive plates, and much harder and narrower wheels are going to be a lot of changes to digest at once. Ater purchasing beginner speed skates changed the wheels, then the plate, and finally the boots but had a chance to adjust to one change at a time.

I have another year of skating and am now starting to work on intermediate skills so would now be easier for me to adjust to new skates.

Wondering if anyone else has made this dramatic change in equipment and how long it took them to adjust to the higher boot/heel, more reactive plate, and harder, narrow wheels? Have read about skaters having the heels cut down because they felt they could not adjust to the higher heel.

sk84luv · December 16th, 2017, 03:14 AM

IMO, there is no reason to use an artistic boot for jam or shuffle skating. Save your money on buying new boots. The Roll-Line plate is a good idea, though.

It isn't natural for us to be walking around in high heels, so why are skate boots made with high heels. No one has ever given me a good reason.

Some people easily adjust to an artistic boot, some don't, and go back to low cut, low heel, no heel. I tried a friends jam boots, and continually felt as though I was going to fall backwards. In an art boot, you may feel as if you are going to face plant.

Another problem with high heeled boots is the development of Morton'e neuroma, and other foot pain.

I have artistic boots because when I started skating in 1989, those were all the rink had for sale.

Going from your current boot to an Edea, is quite a stretch.

40yearslater · December 17th, 2017, 07:49 PM

A different view:
I skate mainly with art boots (Riedell 120 - the low-end boot, but have skated in 297s).
I also skated for about a year or two in a low cut set-up (the budget Riedell, R3, I think) after putting a Suregrip DA45 degree plate on it. I liked the plate so much that I put them on the 120s and went back to the higher boot.
I personally like the higher boot, just seems to give greater control - smooth and easy transitions.
I didn't have any difficulty getting used to differing heel heights, going back and forth between the two set-ups a number of times. For me, the heel keeps you forward, on the balls of your feet, in athletic stance, like skiing - knee and weight centered over the pivot. I think that you can adjust to either low or high.
As far as reactiveness: the DA45 were significantly more responsive than the baseline plates that came with the 120s originally.
I think it might take a couple of sessions, but the increased responsiveness in plates is an incredible improvement. The adaptation kicks in pretty quickly: different modes.
The Edea and Roll-line Variant are both really high quality, but both would serve you well, I think. I think the Edea has a substantially higher heel than Riedell. The Riedell 220 looks pretty good, might be worth looking at. Less pricey than the Edea or the 297. (Though I think the Edea and Variant are available as a bundle/package.)
103 wheels will slide a lot more easily. If you skate on a wood floor, that can open up a whole different aspect. Seems the Detroit and Chicago skaters work with that quality - decreased grip seems to allow for quicker, smooth changes. Probably slide out a few times before you find that point where the grip gives way. Then there's that whole sideways slide thing in Detroit....

Dekindy · December 17th, 2017, 09:41 PM

I have been searching for someone with your experience so thank you very much for taking the time to share.

You switched from a 15-degree plate to a 45-degree(really 30=degree) plate? Probe to Avenger? I was considering and have read many skaters that swear by the more responsive plate but significant numbers that either could not adjust or just plain preferred a more stable/speed plate and went back to a less responsive plate.

As you noted the Edea heel is taller than the Riedell high top boot which is taller than my low cut boot heel. A few skaters found the Edea boot heel too tall and had it cut down. Guess I could try it and always cut it if needed. I thought the 15-degree Roll Line and it's superior action would plenty of responsiveness for me since I can turn the 10-degree speed plate fairly well. 120 boot might be a good price point to experiment and probably would last me quite awhile.

Thanks again. Would appreciate any more insight!

Quote:

Originally Posted by 40yearslater

A different view:
I skate mainly with art boots (Riedell 120 - the low-end boot, but have skated in 297s).
I also skated for about a year or two in a low cut set-up (the budget Riedell, R3, I think) after putting a Suregrip DA45 degree plate on it. I liked the plate so much that I put them on the 120s and went back to the higher boot.
I personally like the higher boot, just seems to give greater control - smooth and easy transitions.
I didn't have any difficulty getting used to differing heel heights, going back and forth between the two set-ups a number of times. For me, the heel keeps you forward, on the balls of your feet, in athletic stance, like skiing - knee and weight centered over the pivot. I think that you can adjust to either low or high.
As far as reactiveness: the DA45 were significantly more responsive than the baseline plates that came with the 120s originally.
I think it might take a couple of sessions, but the increased responsiveness in plates is an incredible improvement. The adaptation kicks in pretty quickly: different modes.
The Edea and Roll-line Variant are both really high quality, but both would serve you well, I think. I think the Edea has a substantially higher heel than Riedell. The Riedell 220 looks pretty good, might be worth looking at. Less pricey than the Edea or the 297. (Though I think the Edea and Variant are available as a bundle/package.)
103 wheels will slide a lot more easily. If you skate on a wood floor, that can open up a whole different aspect. Seems the Detroit and Chicago skaters work with that quality - decreased grip seems to allow for quicker, smooth changes. Probably slide out a few times before you find that point where the grip gives way. Then there's that whole sideways slide thing in Detroit....

likkwid · December 18th, 2017, 08:56 AM

The true question here is, what style will you be skating mostly?

That would determine how much control and balance you need, and where...

Reason being, jamskating in its entirety is substantially more difficult to be precise in an art boot. (Tried it, felt next to impossible, not to mention the added weight)

Inversely, soul/JB/rhythm skating is about physically impossible to make look right in speed skates. (Tried that one too, several times over)

It truly does depend on what the majority of your intent (style) is.

It's like comparing a top fuel dragster to a car built for autocross. Different designs, different uses...

I'd get a speed boot with a slightly taller heelblock. Best of both worlds!

Just my .02...

40yearslater · December 18th, 2017, 10:20 PM

Yes, good point by likkwid, which gets back to sk84luv's answer as well.
Rhythm/JB or jam?
I will defer to them with respect to a lower heel if you are more interested in jam.
(I've never done it.)
As far as the plates, I think that it was in fact a probe that I initially started with on the 120. I'd replaced the (nylon?) plate on the R3 with and Invader (which I think preceded the Avenger).
I put MagAvengers on the 120s after that.

I should say that part of the reason that I prefer the DA 45 is that my rink has a sport court floor, a form of tile. It gives quite a bit. I use softer wheels (~98 duro ?) which actually seem to roll better over the soft floor. The increased responsiveness of the plate helps compensate for interaction of the bigger, softer wheels and more irregularly supported floor (it has softer and harder spots).
Basically, there is a lot of give in the interaction of the skate and the floor. With a harder floor, you wouldn't need that much turn.

I think that the Roll line would be plenty responsive on a harder more uniform floor. From what I have read, plates like the Century are very popular in rhythm skating, they are 10 degrees. Go well with the floor and style. DA 45 would probably be squirrely on a hard floor. (I did it once on a wood floor with the R3 Invader set-up. Doable but maybe not the best.) 15 would be good, I think, right in the middle, tipping toward response.

And yeah, the 120 was a real surprise. Thick, rubber/foam/sponge type of lining: felt comfortable from the get-go. If anything, built more durably that the 297 and 220 - thicker leather. Maybe not as snug to the foot, but I've been really happy with it. Been my main skate for most of five years, and they are still in great shape. For the price, they are a really good buy.

December 16th, 2017, 02:05 AM	#1
Dekindy Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2017 Location: Fishers, IN Posts: 105	Switching from speed to dance Currently have Riedell 695 boot(so heel, not flat), Powerdyne Neo Reactor plate, and Suregrip Zombie 92 wheels. Originally started skating with the goal of becoming a roller derby referee so speed skates were the best choice. Goals change and now I want to session skate, rhythm and jam and dance is the skating that I want to do. Taking lessons from a very good skater and he recommends a higher top boot with more heel. Thinking about a EDEA Classica boot, Roll Line Variant plate, and Rollerbones Elite wheels 103's. Different type boots, more reactive plates, and much harder and narrower wheels are going to be a lot of changes to digest at once. Ater purchasing beginner speed skates changed the wheels, then the plate, and finally the boots but had a chance to adjust to one change at a time. I have another year of skating and am now starting to work on intermediate skills so would now be easier for me to adjust to new skates. Wondering if anyone else has made this dramatic change in equipment and how long it took them to adjust to the higher boot/heel, more reactive plate, and harder, narrow wheels? Have read about skaters having the heels cut down because they felt they could not adjust to the higher heel.

December 16th, 2017, 03:14 AM	#2
sk84luv ..., therefore, I skate. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Southern Oregon Posts: 1,025	IMO, there is no reason to use an artistic boot for jam or shuffle skating. Save your money on buying new boots. The Roll-Line plate is a good idea, though. It isn't natural for us to be walking around in high heels, so why are skate boots made with high heels. No one has ever given me a good reason. Some people easily adjust to an artistic boot, some don't, and go back to low cut, low heel, no heel. I tried a friends jam boots, and continually felt as though I was going to fall backwards. In an art boot, you may feel as if you are going to face plant. Another problem with high heeled boots is the development of Morton'e neuroma, and other foot pain. I have artistic boots because when I started skating in 1989, those were all the rink had for sale. Going from your current boot to an Edea, is quite a stretch. __________________ Riedell 336, Roll-Line Mistral, Roll-Line Panthers. Swiss Labyrinth II .

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December 17th, 2017, 07:49 PM	#3
40yearslater Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 266	A different view: I skate mainly with art boots (Riedell 120 - the low-end boot, but have skated in 297s). I also skated for about a year or two in a low cut set-up (the budget Riedell, R3, I think) after putting a Suregrip DA45 degree plate on it. I liked the plate so much that I put them on the 120s and went back to the higher boot. I personally like the higher boot, just seems to give greater control - smooth and easy transitions. I didn't have any difficulty getting used to differing heel heights, going back and forth between the two set-ups a number of times. For me, the heel keeps you forward, on the balls of your feet, in athletic stance, like skiing - knee and weight centered over the pivot. I think that you can adjust to either low or high. As far as reactiveness: the DA45 were significantly more responsive than the baseline plates that came with the 120s originally. I think it might take a couple of sessions, but the increased responsiveness in plates is an incredible improvement. The adaptation kicks in pretty quickly: different modes. The Edea and Roll-line Variant are both really high quality, but both would serve you well, I think. I think the Edea has a substantially higher heel than Riedell. The Riedell 220 looks pretty good, might be worth looking at. Less pricey than the Edea or the 297. (Though I think the Edea and Variant are available as a bundle/package.) 103 wheels will slide a lot more easily. If you skate on a wood floor, that can open up a whole different aspect. Seems the Detroit and Chicago skaters work with that quality - decreased grip seems to allow for quicker, smooth changes. Probably slide out a few times before you find that point where the grip gives way. Then there's that whole sideways slide thing in Detroit....

December 18th, 2017, 08:56 AM	#5
likkwid likkwid Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 228	The true question here is, what style will you be skating mostly? That would determine how much control and balance you need, and where... Reason being, jamskating in its entirety is substantially more difficult to be precise in an art boot. (Tried it, felt next to impossible, not to mention the added weight) Inversely, soul/JB/rhythm skating is about physically impossible to make look right in speed skates. (Tried that one too, several times over) It truly does depend on what the majority of your intent (style) is. It's like comparing a top fuel dragster to a car built for autocross. Different designs, different uses... I'd get a speed boot with a slightly taller heelblock. Best of both worlds! Just my .02...

December 18th, 2017, 10:20 PM	#6
40yearslater Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 266	Yes, good point by likkwid, which gets back to sk84luv's answer as well. Rhythm/JB or jam? I will defer to them with respect to a lower heel if you are more interested in jam. (I've never done it.) As far as the plates, I think that it was in fact a probe that I initially started with on the 120. I'd replaced the (nylon?) plate on the R3 with and Invader (which I think preceded the Avenger). I put MagAvengers on the 120s after that. I should say that part of the reason that I prefer the DA 45 is that my rink has a sport court floor, a form of tile. It gives quite a bit. I use softer wheels (~98 duro ?) which actually seem to roll better over the soft floor. The increased responsiveness of the plate helps compensate for interaction of the bigger, softer wheels and more irregularly supported floor (it has softer and harder spots). Basically, there is a lot of give in the interaction of the skate and the floor. With a harder floor, you wouldn't need that much turn. I think that the Roll line would be plenty responsive on a harder more uniform floor. From what I have read, plates like the Century are very popular in rhythm skating, they are 10 degrees. Go well with the floor and style. DA 45 would probably be squirrely on a hard floor. (I did it once on a wood floor with the R3 Invader set-up. Doable but maybe not the best.) 15 would be good, I think, right in the middle, tipping toward response. And yeah, the 120 was a real surprise. Thick, rubber/foam/sponge type of lining: felt comfortable from the get-go. If anything, built more durably that the 297 and 220 - thicker leather. Maybe not as snug to the foot, but I've been really happy with it. Been my main skate for most of five years, and they are still in great shape. For the price, they are a really good buy.