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Speed Skating Forum Most of the discussions in this forum will be about inline speed skating but discussions about ice speed skating and quad roller speed skating are also welcome.

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Old August 2nd, 2017, 05:39 AM   #1
NDSconcept
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Default Matter PROPEL New wheel hub.

In the process of coming out of the corner, the technology turning to the left is difficult to obtain with the hub design.

Need to present a foundation method.
We found a solution through experiments.
We discovered that it can not be solved with a hub.

I think the disk hub is rather good.



If the wheels of both feet are mounted differently like the photo, the user can feel the wheel in another way.
It is useful to assemble it in the same direction as much as possible.
Hoping for good results.

It is the choice of the user that consumers know the problem and purchase it.
If consumers purchase without knowing the reasons, the user can think that the manufacturer deceived.
When purchasing, the difference is whether the user "You know" or "does not know".

It will be "inconvenient truth" in some cases.

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Old August 2nd, 2017, 09:20 AM   #2
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my expectations by just looking at the construction, did not test the wheels.

Roll: will be good
Rebound: will be good
Flex: will be poor to average


But all in all, I think it is a smart marketing move. Curious how MPC will respond :-)
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Old August 2nd, 2017, 01:39 PM   #3
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Ability to use both sides of the wheel will not be good due to the direction of the hub. I like to rotate my wheels regularly, using both sides.

I'd be curious to the feel when the hubs are run backward.
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Old August 2nd, 2017, 02:49 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by chuckboucher View Post
Ability to use both sides of the wheel will not be good due to the direction of the hub. I like to rotate my wheels regularly, using both sides.
It will increase the trend to have both training wheels and race wheels

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckboucher View Post
I'd be curious to the feel when the hubs are run backward.
My expectation is less roll when you use them inside-out. If the possitive effect is real, than you should also feel the negative effect.
The load on your spoke will translate in a reverse force on your bearing.
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Old August 2nd, 2017, 03:31 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Krulle View Post
It will increase the trend to have both training wheels and race wheels
Or decrease sales for people like me who wouldn't even consider buying a wheel they couldn't rotate.
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Old August 3rd, 2017, 02:48 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckboucher View Post
Or decrease sales for people like me who wouldn't even consider buying a wheel they couldn't rotate.
If I was the product manager, I would position this as the high end product

high-end = most expensive = e.g. single side wheels for same price as mid-end, but they last less long

mid-end = current high end wheels

low-end = training wheels.

Their will be a public that converts from their mid-end wheels to the high end wheels, so they would generate more turn-over (since these guys would need to buy more wheels).

It's a smart trick for this type of business. If I see here in Belgium how many people pay thousands of euros more for a racing bike that performs a little bit better ...
Investing in better training would be cheaper and more effective, yet they buy the expensive stuff.
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Old August 3rd, 2017, 03:10 PM   #7
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I suspect they will not yield any more performance. Remember, any energy you get back from a flexing object will be less than you put into it to make it flex in the first place.
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Old August 3rd, 2017, 11:33 PM   #8
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Wheels that are good for half a rotation... Get aboard the gravy train! Choo choo!!

Or maybe you should flip them during normal training, then when you race flip them the right way and knock half a second from your laptimes automatically. Magic.
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Old August 21st, 2017, 09:07 PM   #9
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I read the new hub wheel Propel was designed offset for banked track skating. So, that said, what (if anything) would be advantageous with it for road use?
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 01:08 PM   #10
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I read the new hub wheel Propel was designed offset for banked track skating. So, that said, what (if anything) would be advantageous with it for road use?
This wheel is only designed for turning left: bank track, indoors. Not a road wheel. It's basically a throwaway wheel. Use for one outdoor meet only.

I wonder if they will put indoor urethane for the US market.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 04:02 PM   #11
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I don't really understand the desire for hub flex on a smooth track. I would think that a hub that is stiff on both sides would be best.

In my mind (and I can be totally wrong) i would think that a flexible hub could have sme advantages on the road. In combination with the right urethane(s) and band, it could give you the ability to tune the overall wheel to absorb surface vibrations without using too soft of a compound. Road vibration leads to discomfort, less roll, and less mechanical grip. On a smooth track, I don't know that a skater would need any of that. Maybe indoor on a wood floor that has uneven boards, but probably not on something smooth and freshly coated.

I've heard people talk about hubs feeling more "snappy" when transitioning from outside to inside edge. I haven't felt that myself, but I can't say it isn't real. If it is real, I could see something like the propel actually aiding in a double push if you're skating in a straight line; but that's the exact opposite of what the Matter marketing team is saying about this wheel.

So, I don't really know what to think about the propel. I'm sure the fastest skaters will still skate fast and set records on this wheel, and then everyone else will follow along and swear by the performance. I think there is a higher chance of it being a placebo effect than an actual performance increase, but what do i know?
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 04:13 PM   #12
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One more thought...

Matter marketing has been confusing to me with other wheels too. I'm trying to decide what i want to skate on at Duluth, but I'm clueless.

Scott Aldridge said in a video that the G13 is for slower skaters. Then he said it was his favorite wheel because he's a bit out of shape now so he considers himself a "slower skater" (which is laughable because he's extremely quick).

Looking on social media, some of the sponsored Powerslide/Matter skaters are on g13 and some are on the wider blue hub 125s. I even saw Powerslide post a picture on Instagram of their sponsored skaters on Boom wheels! Then there was a comment about Bart using the blue hub wheels early in the season, and mentioning he may switch to the G13 for the faster races later in the season. If the g13 is for slower skaters, why would Bart and crew use them at the faster races?

I'd prefer for these companies to just state the pros and cons of each. For example, if the G13 is the easiest wheel to hold a high speed on (which I think it probably is), then say it. If the blue hubbed wheels sprint better than the g13s but require more effort to hold speed, then say that.

Give me some of the information that your team of the best skaters in the world have determined based on hours upon hours of testing. Then i can use that information to pick the right wheel for my application.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 06:04 PM   #13
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Matters marketing is running circles around your heads. We'll see how they do at the world championships in a few days. How many will skate them that are not paid to wear them?

MPC's counter? Track Attack pic posted on FB.
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Old August 23rd, 2017, 01:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sxevegan View Post
Looking on social media, some of the sponsored Powerslide/Matter skaters are on g13 and some are on the wider blue hub 125s. I even saw Powerslide post a picture on Instagram of their sponsored skaters on Boom wheels! Then there was a comment about Bart using the blue hub wheels early in the season, and mentioning he may switch to the G13 for the faster races later in the season. If the g13 is for slower skaters, why would Bart and crew use them at the faster races?
They mean the faster courses. From what I've heard(various wheel distributors). The pros like the G13 125's on smooth fast courses with few turns and of course the Blue hubs on the more technical or rougher courses.

Also, some skaters are power skaters and some are gliders. It all comes down to comfort. I'm a power skater and like the blue hubs, but I'm trying to get used to the thin hubs due to their speed.

Oh and flex does matter. I can definitely tell if a wheel has too much or none. If it has too much, i feel like I'm going to lose my skate on the DP. Not enough and the skate feels like it's trying to right itself immediately on the DP.
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Old August 23rd, 2017, 03:30 PM   #15
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They mean the faster courses. From what I've heard(various wheel distributors). The pros like the G13 125's on smooth fast courses with few turns and of course the Blue hubs on the more technical or rougher courses.

Also, some skaters are power skaters and some are gliders. It all comes down to comfort. I'm a power skater and like the blue hubs, but I'm trying to get used to the thin hubs due to their speed.

Oh and flex does matter. I can definitely tell if a wheel has too much or none. If it has too much, i feel like I'm going to lose my skate on the DP. Not enough and the skate feels like it's trying to right itself immediately on the DP.
Thanks for the info on the wheels. That makes sense, I think. So in theory, G13s should be THE wheel for Northshore, Apostle, and St Paul since they are fairly smooth and straight. Blue hubs would be good for Chicago, Silverstrand (both have lots of turns and rough sections) or ultra distance stuff like NY100k or A2A where comfort is super important.

As far as flex goes, I agree with you on a wheel being too flexy and feeling like you're going to lose it. I'm not sure I've felt what you describe as a hub being too stiff, but maybe it's just that I haven't skated on a super-stiff (too stiff) hub before. I haven't skated on the aluminum bonts, but I'm guessing those would be about as stiff as you can get. It seems like lots of people like those wheels though.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 12:31 PM   #16
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MPC wheels wins 1000m WC mens race 2017 World Championships. Sebastian Guzman. Awesome race!
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Old September 5th, 2017, 01:08 PM   #17
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MPC wheels wins 1000m WC mens race 2017 World Championships. Sebastian Guzman. Awesome race!
Well, of course. Sebastian Guzman has been near the top for a few years now. I think it's his first gold. He skated at piccolo a couple of years ago. Amazing skater.

Also looks like that Matter and MPC are still the dominate wheel on the track.

But we'd never know because FIRS is the worst at posting any podium pictures.
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Old September 5th, 2017, 03:22 PM   #18
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The meter PROPEL is a wheel where the totally bankrupt.
It is not suitable for banked track skating.
There is another structure suitable for banked track skating.
South Korea J&T company possesses technology.

Look at the pictures.
The players also know that the wheel acts on the direction.
Please look at the direction of the wheel print.
There is wearing it in one direction.





Players wearing to promote, no matter how you use it is free.
The problem is the actual user who pays for purchasing.
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Old September 7th, 2017, 05:17 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spdkls View Post
Well, of course. Sebastian Guzman has been near the top for a few years now. I think it's his first gold. He skated at piccolo a couple of years ago. Amazing skater.

Also looks like that Matter and MPC are still the dominate wheel on the track.

But we'd never know because FIRS is the worst at posting any podium pictures.
I totally agree! FIRS should definitely post more photos and help promote the sport!

Patinagem Velocidade Portugal is amazing about posting great photos and videos from many of the major events on FB.





Looks like Sebastian was on Junk/MPC Road Reapers?
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