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Roller Derby Forum Discussions about banked-track and flat-track roller derby events, teams, skaters, and training methods.

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Old October 6th, 2016, 08:52 AM   #21
HeBeGB
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I miss common sense.
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Old October 6th, 2016, 10:45 AM   #22
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I miss common sense.
Then why not give us some? I am all ears.

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Old October 6th, 2016, 06:33 PM   #23
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Then why not give us some? I am all ears.

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Common sense is essentially ones ability to reflect on a situation, play out scenario potentials, and come up with an averaged logic of what could or could not happen bro.

Anyone suing over a toestop boss and an injury due to a bend like that where the metal has torn is probably going to spend alot more time and money than they would ever get out when its noted how the failure occurred.

Also the fact that it didnt tear clean off and the angle of attack of ones foot was not significantly affected during the stop, but im sure anyone would notice the fault as it happened to that degree.

Its quite easy to play through the events that cause the failure, see the potential for a fall,(nearly non existant) and know that it was nothing to have a lawsuit over.

Also consider that again, this is the ROLLER DERBY forum, and one should essentially be properly geared, which would prevent nearly any injury from a failure. Ontop of that most (not all) derby players carry liability insurance for their sport.

If those things didnt occur to you, then think a bit more beforehand
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Old October 6th, 2016, 07:38 PM   #24
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Common sense is essentially ones ability to reflect on a situation, play out scenario potentials, and come up with an averaged logic of what could or could not happen bro.
Anyone suing over a toestop boss and an injury due to a bend like that where the metal has torn is probably going to spend alot more time and money than they would ever get out when its noted how the failure occurred.

Also the fact that it didnt tear clean off and the angle of attack of ones foot was not significantly affected during the stop, but im sure anyone would notice the fault as it happened to that degree.

Its quite easy to play through the events that cause the failure, see the potential for a fall,(nearly non existant) and know that it was nothing to have a lawsuit over.

Also consider that again, this is the ROLLER DERBY forum, and one should essentially be properly geared, which would prevent nearly any injury from a failure. Ontop of that most (not all) derby players carry liability insurance for their sport.

If those things didnt occur to you, then think a bit more beforehand


Common sense is always filtered through ones personal views of the world.

Common sense tells me that lawyers will be the ones assessing the situation and making that call as to whether they can successfully sue when this kind of a failure might result in an serious and permanent injury, and I am pretty sure you are not a lawyer.

Common sense also tells me that neither you nor I would ever be the expert witnesses called to the stand to assess whether possible design flaws of the Arius plate were a contributing factor. Your assessment opinion may put Riedell in the clear, and mine might point the finger of guilt in their direction, but neither would be heard by an actual jury.

Just because a derby skater has medical (not liability) insurance does NOT mean a skate manufacturer could not be sued for producing a flawed plate design. Lawyers make that call, not you or I, and if they decide the case if good enough they may charge little or nothing for their services.

Common sense tells me that if an injurious fall happened and the plate fracture was visible, trained engineers with expertertise in metal structure failure analysis would testify for both sides and give different interpretations.

Common sense tells me that if discovery showed above normal numbers of this failure mode, combined with a recent redesign of the plate for more metal and greater strength at this failure point, Riedell could easily lose and take a big hit, perhaps even forcing a total recall of all the Gen1 Arius plates.

Common sense tells me that far too many more robustly designed plates could be shown to almost never fail in this way, and thus a jury could easily be swayed into thinking that the Gen1 Arius was a primary cause for the injury. Maybe there has even been such a lawsuit and this stimulated the Gen2 redesign?

At this point, common sense tells me what I am saying is potentially just as accurate as what you are saying.

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Old October 6th, 2016, 09:23 PM   #25
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No, lawyers have a choice to take a case or not, you can have a civil case over virtually anything. If its way out in left field, it may not be heard, or may have to be appealed for better information before it is heard or considered.

If a user continues to use a piece of equipment of which they know its shortcommings, or potential dangers they are more at fault than the seller or manufacturer is.

Enough of this crap in a "can it be fixed" thread. Total derailment.

The short of it is obvious. Yes, it can be, yes it could still break like anything can, and yes you can completely make it as strong as the new design with some careful work with minimal costs.

Also even if it was modified, a company would habe to prove that your modified version actually compromised the structural integrity of the piece.

The short there is , its not worth the time or money if you fell because of it.

The only potentially good thing would be ask nicely and be persuasive in getting a replacement. Which would be the same plate, undamage, and youd then want to reinforce the problem area.
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Old October 7th, 2016, 05:12 AM   #26
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If minimum cost is the #1 priority then I am in agreement with you Mort → fix it in whatever affordable and likely to be reliable way that is available to do it.

No doubt that it is a potentially fixable issue, however, my input here has been intended to highlight other possible priorities and outcomes that could result from the fixing it path, as well.

Playing nice with Riedell is a more likely strategy for ultimate success.
Making a reasonable request to them and seeing how they respond makes sense.
Be sure t include the link to this thread. If Riedell handles the issue fairly, I promise to quit posting on the subject here in this thread. I would even delete all my posts in this thread, but I would save them for possible use in any future Arius plate failure threads like this one, if fair treatment of the plate owner wasn't happening.

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Old October 7th, 2016, 05:30 AM   #27
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Meh, deleteing things never helps others learn opinions and other veiws, no matter how normal or abstract.

Riedell should have tested the plate a bit further, but I believe the original test model was 7075 not 6061, and was likely not beaten on like derby players do. A good 300 lb guy shoving walls on ginormous toe stops in a grippy floor would have been a good test if he was using leather boots.
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Old October 7th, 2016, 05:37 AM   #28
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Meh, deleteing things never helps others learn opinions and other veiws, no matter how normal or abstract.

Riedell should have tested the plate a bit further, but I believe the original test model was 7075 not 6061, and was likely not beaten on like derby players do. A good 300 lb guy shoving walls on ginormous toe stops in a grippy floor would have been a good test if he was using leather boots.
Sounds like me deciding a 2024 aluminum (instead of 7075) 3/8-16 stud could be still be strong enough to work as stud kingpins for a Laser Slider build.

I soon had the bruises to prove that that analysis was poorly executed, but at least I have a nice bag or lightweight 2024 3" fully threaded bolts when I need one for something more appropriate than a quad skate kingpin, Ha Ha.

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