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Old October 2nd, 2015, 10:42 AM   #1
Derrick
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Default IB spin

So, I've gotten over the fear of jumping the waltz jump. I give it all I got (which isn't that much) with no problem. So improving that is just a matter of doing it over and over. And falling down some. The falls I've had from this jump are not scary especially with wrist guards. I haven't fallen backwards yet.

So I'm back on my IB spin obsession again. So I had a little time with the art skater/owner. I showed him what I was doing and he said his entry is to rock-over where I come in with a LOF-LIB three turn. I'm afraid I don't know the difference. He showed me how my entry would work, if I hold off on spining a bit. Wait until the turn my body was upright again after the turn.

I did make a little progress. One thing is, I came in to the three turn more upright, waited just a touch, then turn. I get good rotation but fall out of the spin at just over half of a turn.

So what is the difference between the rock-over and the three turn?

Last edited by Derrick; October 2nd, 2015 at 10:48 AM. Reason: fix ipad typing
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Old October 3rd, 2015, 08:30 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Derrick View Post
So, I've gotten over the fear of jumping the waltz jump. I give it all I got (which isn't that much) with no problem. So improving that is just a matter of doing it over and over. And falling down some. The falls I've had from this jump are not scary especially with wrist guards. I haven't fallen backwards yet.

So I'm back on my IB spin obsession again. So I had a little time with the art skater/owner. I showed him what I was doing and he said his entry is to rock-over where I come in with a LOF-LIB three turn. I'm afraid I don't know the difference. He showed me how my entry would work, if I hold off on spining a bit. Wait until the turn my body was upright again after the turn.

I did make a little progress. One thing is, I came in to the three turn more upright, waited just a touch, then turn. I get good rotation but fall out of the spin at just over half of a turn.

So what is the difference between the rock-over and the three turn?
a rock over is not a turn you just change edge very quickly. You can do/practice the IB spin from a standstill, it's much easier when you are just starting to learn it. This video shows you pretty much everything you need https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxPEezFM89k

Last edited by Rox'n'Roll; October 3rd, 2015 at 08:35 PM.
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Old November 29th, 2015, 04:15 AM   #3
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Still something I'm missing, I'm sure I'm just doing something silly. I can spin on the spin trainer. I try to rock over on skate I either catch on an edge or I fall out after one rotation. My body position must be way off. Can't get new video, the weather has turned. People (like my kids) find it creepy when old men take their cameras to the rink.
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Old November 30th, 2015, 12:07 AM   #4
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Default improving

So, I tried entering the spunin off of a mohawk and keeping the performing knee bent. That seemed to work. A couple of spins even felt like the trainer. I may have gotten three reveloutions on a couple of spins. They sure felt better.
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Old December 7th, 2015, 08:45 PM   #5
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Default No longer improving on IB spin

Any helps on my form.

I want to enter like 3:30 in

http://youtu.be/EaX9Q2iI6MQ

On one foot. But I am way off. When I try it from a stand still I'm completely on my toes. I've wtched the rolaboi video over and over. I can do it on a trainer but I catch all four wheels if I don't just use my toes. If I enter rolling even slightly, I avoid being completely on my toes but I fall out of the spin after one rotation.

I can enter like 4:05 inconsistently. But that wobble and catch is normal. Sometimes I catch it on my balance heel and finish heel-toe.

I still feel I'm missing something, hopefully simple.

Last edited by Derrick; December 7th, 2015 at 08:48 PM. Reason: misspelled
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Old December 7th, 2015, 11:45 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Derrick View Post
Any helps on my form.

I want to enter like 3:30 in

http://youtu.be/EaX9Q2iI6MQ

On one foot. But I am way off. When I try it from a stand still I'm completely on my toes. I've wtched the rolaboi video over and over. I can do it on a trainer but I catch all four wheels if I don't just use my toes. If I enter rolling even slightly, I avoid being completely on my toes but I fall out of the spin after one rotation.

I can enter like 4:05 inconsistently. But that wobble and catch is normal. Sometimes I catch it on my balance heel and finish heel-toe.

I still feel I'm missing something, hopefully simple.
Hi Derrick, Like you I am learning the IB spin with no-one showing me how (I'm not allowed to spin in my dance grade so don't tend to practice it at the "rink"; I pay for floor & coaching time so want to spend my $$ on competition stuff!) Here's my vid! https://vimeo.com/147981157 My goal is to be able to do 3-4 revolutions from standstill EVERY time. I tend to move a bit which is not good. I do it from a standstill because the opening steps is the only place I would eventually be able to work it in my routines (the opening steps do not get judged). Anyways so far I've found my major downfalls is not keeping my shoulders/upper body and free leg stable enough. I tend to dip to the free side with my upper body and fall out of the turn (especially when I get dizzy) and sometimes my free leg has a mind of its own which has the same effect. So the markers that has helped my so far has been make sure upper body area stays horizontal and 'engaged' (don't lean in any direction) and to keep the free leg in the same place/under control. This is just my own experience - and I don't have much! I also find that spinning on a wooden floor is a lot easier - in the vid I am on lino which is a bit sluggish. I am trying to learn the Inside forward Upright Spin as well - I find that quite hard, the wheels sorta stick after 1.5 revolutions... just have to keep at it

Last edited by Rox'n'Roll; December 8th, 2015 at 04:36 AM.
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Old December 8th, 2015, 03:06 AM   #7
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Derrick,
Get the entry down. Just spinning from a stand still will only get minimal rotation and trying to spin by holding an edge backwards and then deepening an edge will only throw you off balance when you try to transition into a spin.

What you need is a pivot point to enter the spin and to do that you need a good entry. you will use your speed going backwards then step into the spin and use that step to transition as you entry which will translate the energy of linear movement into rotational movement.


Ok! following is a poorly executed quality spin but it will demonstrate how to enter the spin. Keep in mind this was after 30 years of being off skates and I picked this up almost immediately because I followed some basic entry moves. You can do this too.

First start out on a back outside edge on the right foot then rock over to an inside edge with the left foot toward your back. Then step to the left foot in a deep knee bend and a deep outside edge. Then as you straighten the knee, you will flip the edge from a forward outside to an inner back edge. Don't stand up all the way yet, but maintain a slight bend in the left knee, but only slight. This is a trade off. A perfectly straight knee will let you get the best spin quality but is more difficult to stay perfect, while the slight bend allows you to make micro adjustments which is needed for a beginner. As you improve you can straighten.

Ok, here is the youtube vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPVEiCETtY0

This is me and I at that time I have very little balance. It was only technique that allowed me to do it... You can do it too.



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Originally Posted by Derrick View Post
Any helps on my form.


I want to enter like 3:30 in

http://youtu.be/EaX9Q2iI6MQ

On one foot. But I am way off. When I try it from a stand still I'm completely on my toes. I've wtched the rolaboi video over and over. I can do it on a trainer but I catch all four wheels if I don't just use my toes. If I enter rolling even slightly, I avoid being completely on my toes but I fall out of the spin after one rotation.

I can enter like 4:05 inconsistently. But that wobble and catch is normal. Sometimes I catch it on my balance heel and finish heel-toe.

I still feel I'm missing something, hopefully simple.
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Old December 8th, 2015, 10:45 AM   #8
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Default Thanks rox and ancient for the encouragement

Your spins look great. One thing I notice is thst I try to "spin on a dime" thus the toe spin, I suppose.

I'll need to study your response a bit Ancient1, alwas so much info in there.

I'll definately keep trying. Need to wait clear until thursday. I act like such a kid, "Can't ever wait to skate."

Last edited by Derrick; December 8th, 2015 at 10:47 AM. Reason: already had answer
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Old December 8th, 2015, 08:21 PM   #9
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Derrick,
you are too kind. That may look good to you but it is really horrible. I wish I had video of when I was in my prime skating. I was slim and my body was straight. When I would speed skate I could feel the wind I was creating as I moved. I could also feel it when I did freestyle. It was like magic to leap into the air and my body knew exactly what to do without thinking. My spins were the same. Then I spoiled it all and gave it up to make my wife happy and not go out and work out anymore. That was my first wife of course. Now I am so freakin fat and I work so much I don't have time to work out. But soon I will retire a second time and start walking and then running then when I get my weight down to about 160 lbs I will skate again. I will fly again. Oops sorry, I get carried away.




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Your spins look great. One thing I notice is thst I try to "spin on a dime" thus the toe spin, I suppose.

I'll need to study your response a bit Ancient1, alwas so much info in there.

I'll definately keep trying. Need to wait clear until thursday. I act like such a kid, "Can't ever wait to skate."
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Old December 11th, 2015, 10:53 AM   #10
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Darn, I didn't do so well this time. I noticed one thing from your video that I missed before. When the free leg comes around his foot is much farther from the ground than mine. Could this be pulling me off? I just noticed it.

Last edited by Derrick; December 11th, 2015 at 11:56 AM. Reason: add
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Old December 11th, 2015, 11:52 AM   #11
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Derrick,
you are too kind. That may look good to you but it is really horrible. I wish I had video of when I was in my prime skating. I was slim and my body was straight. When I would speed skate I could feel the wind I was creating as I moved. I could also feel it when I did freestyle. It was like magic to leap into the air and my body knew exactly what to do without thinking. My spins were the same. Then I spoiled it all and gave it up to make my wife happy and not go out and work out anymore. That was my first wife of course. Now I am so freakin fat and I work so much I don't have time to work out. But soon I will retire a second time and start walking and then running then when I get my weight down to about 160 lbs I will skate again. I will fly again. Oops sorry, I get carried away.

I'm lucky that though my wife doesn't exactly like me skating (because she doesn't skate) she doesn't try to stand in the way as I love to do it so much.
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Old December 11th, 2015, 08:29 PM   #12
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Putting the free leg out and up allows you to setup to increase your centrifugal force when you pull in. Putting it out stores your linear speed, pulling it in after you established the spot for the spin and entered the spin will increase your speed inside the spin. Lifting up the leg and mostly the knee gets your knee in the proper position for an IB upright spin.

So show me what you are doing now my young grasshopper.


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Darn, I didn't do so well this time. I noticed one thing from your video that I missed before. When the free leg comes around his foot is much farther from the ground than mine. Could this be pulling me off? I just noticed it.
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Old December 14th, 2015, 06:05 AM   #13
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Putting the free leg out and up allows you to setup to increase your centrifugal force when you pull in. Putting it out stores your linear speed, pulling it in after you established the spot for the spin and entered the spin will increase your speed inside the spin. Lifting up the leg and mostly the knee gets your knee in the proper position for an IB upright spin.

So show me what you are doing now my young grasshopper.
This was it! It was the swing leg all along. I was swining forward instead of brining it up and around. I didn't get it my first spin but it was abvious that brining my swing leg higher and around was going to work. I worked on the entry for a while then my first attempt I brought the leg up but dropped it in fromt again. Then finally I got it all the way around and kept my leg high with some knee bend. I got a couple of reveloutions on the edge my last revelotion stil ended up one on toes though, but the spin was set and I did not fall out.
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Old December 14th, 2015, 08:17 AM   #14
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Derrick,
That is fantastic. Once you get the IB upright spin consistent then it will feel natural and very fun.

Now show us vids. we are hooked on your improvements and your skills...



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This was it! It was the swing leg all along. I was swining forward instead of brining it up and around. I didn't get it my first spin but it was abvious that brining my swing leg higher and around was going to work. I worked on the entry for a while then my first attempt I brought the leg up but dropped it in fromt again. Then finally I got it all the way around and kept my leg high with some knee bend. I got a couple of reveloutions on the edge my last revelotion stil ended up one on toes though, but the spin was set and I did not fall out.
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Old January 7th, 2016, 09:21 AM   #15
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Are we all still on vacation!!! Sheesh! no activity. Please
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Old January 7th, 2016, 11:37 AM   #16
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Are we all still on vacation!!! Sheesh! no activity. Please
Oh, sorry I've done a lot of sessions and I always attempt this spin several times. There actually was a good spin in there, but I'm inconsistent.

I'm a little better at the IB, but not great. Actually, if I set my right foot just off of a mohawk I do pretty good. But not the right entry. It's a lift a foot deal not a proper all on one foot deal.

Anyway, I learned from an app that I may be setting a bit wrong. I think I've been failing to set the spin off of the chactaw over the rear outside wheel. Then rock to the inside front wheel. Instead I have been spiraling off the choctaw and trying to set it after the rock over.

BTW the entry for the OF looks the same to me, just leave the free foot out a bit and spin over the outside back wheel. And you don't spin as tight or fast as the IB. Is that correct?

I'm actually a bit better, but not where I want to be (well, I'll never be there). I wish this indiana weather would allow me to get some skate park video, but it's way too cold for that.

I'm going to the rink tonight. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Old January 8th, 2016, 07:07 AM   #17
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Hmmm! I need to see that entry from a vid please for the IB spin.

For the OF spin, the description sounds right. Again, get the vid.


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Anyway, I learned from an app that I may be setting a bit wrong. I think I've been failing to set the spin off of the chactaw over the rear outside wheel. Then rock to the inside front wheel. Instead I have been spiraling off the choctaw and trying to set it after the rock over.

BTW the entry for the OF looks the same to me, just leave the free foot out a bit and spin over the outside back wheel. And you don't spin as tight or fast as the IB. Is that correct?
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Old January 8th, 2016, 12:21 PM   #18
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Hmmm! I need to see that entry from a vid please for the IB spin.

For the OF spin, the description sounds right. Again, get the vid.
Yea, I need vid. I'll alk to Zeke about getting some in session vid. I'm glad I didn't have vid last night though. Off night. .i did attempt the correct entry on my right foot though. That was interesting, I got a lot tighter rotation off of the choctaw, but right over the skate all wheels, lucky the floor was so slippery. I was so surprised that I wasn't going scoot-bam! That I had trouble with the rock over. But I did attempt, I can't say the right skate is worse it just has differnet issues.
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Old January 24th, 2016, 04:56 PM   #19
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Default IB breakdown

Who knew there was so much to one element but it keeps it interesting.

Disclaimer: my breakdown is from my own prosepective and I am self-taught so you may want to take it with a grain of sand. Some may be pure conjecture as well.

Ok So I start going reverse. No Problem. Then choctaw. Ok this point is critical, You set the spin here, and I think this is where I have the most issue. This brief move determines the max reveloutions. No matter what you do you can't add reveloutions only speed after you set it. So my spin is now on the outside edge with weight on the back wheel. My spin is not tight enough at this point and I have few reveloutions available. Next I bring the balance foot from the back to high on the side. So I am spinning slowly. At this point you have full control over the speed of the spin you can actually pause here if you want. But I don't want. Now I bring in my arms and legs really quickly. I should be able to bring them in slowly, bu there is the issue of the rock over. If I go slow I have 4 wheels on the floor with equal weight on all very breifly. And this will cause you to fall down. I've never had an ankle injury from this, but I think that could happen, but I lace up tight to prevent. New to me, after this I am fine. I can ride out the little revelotion I have left fine. Not really enough to exit nicely. I can get opposite foot and edge, but I'm all from just standing there.

So in retrospect I need to set the OF better and faster. Then make sure I rock over at the right time. I should be able to bring my arms and leg in more slowly, if everything else is proper it is better to not pull in quickly.

Well we'll see what I can improve. Feeling knda poor (galbladder issues). Seems like it's always something anymore. It's not contagious so I will skate today.

Last edited by Derrick; January 24th, 2016 at 05:00 PM. Reason: m
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Old January 24th, 2016, 09:53 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derrick View Post
Who knew there was so much to one element but it keeps it interesting.

Disclaimer: my breakdown is from my own prosepective and I am self-taught so you may want to take it with a grain of sand. Some may be pure conjecture as well.

Ok So I start going reverse. No Problem. Then choctaw. Ok this point is critical, You set the spin here, and I think this is where I have the most issue. This brief move determines the max reveloutions. No matter what you do you can't add reveloutions only speed after you set it. So my spin is now on the outside edge with weight on the back wheel. My spin is not tight enough at this point and I have few reveloutions available. Next I bring the balance foot from the back to high on the side. So I am spinning slowly. At this point you have full control over the speed of the spin you can actually pause here if you want. But I don't want. Now I bring in my arms and legs really quickly. I should be able to bring them in slowly, bu there is the issue of the rock over. If I go slow I have 4 wheels on the floor with equal weight on all very breifly. And this will cause you to fall down. I've never had an ankle injury from this, but I think that could happen, but I lace up tight to prevent. New to me, after this I am fine. I can ride out the little revelotion I have left fine. Not really enough to exit nicely. I can get opposite foot and edge, but I'm all from just standing there.

So in retrospect I need to set the OF better and faster. Then make sure I rock over at the right time. I should be able to bring my arms and leg in more slowly, if everything else is proper it is better to not pull in quickly.

Well we'll see what I can improve. Feeling knda poor (galbladder issues). Seems like it's always something anymore. It's not contagious so I will skate today.
Derrick - do you think you might be over analyzing this rather than just feeling it and letting it happen?
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