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Ask DocSk8 (Expert Indoor Skate Building Advice) This forum is different then the other SkateLog forums in that it is not a discussion forum, but rather a place you can ask skate building expert Fred "DocSk8" Benjamin about building and repairing indoor speed, derby, and jamskate quad roller skates. Please start a new thread for each new question.

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Old September 16th, 2013, 12:43 AM   #1
gotsk8s
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Default Lock nut tightening up during the skate....

First the set up: (don`t need boot info), Advantage, Scotts SE/Fafnirs.
This has never happened with this skate, ever, BUT I have been gradually loosening my action some but its only happening on one wheel and its a new locknut that the nylock grips really well. The wheel in question is the front right wheel on the right skate. Last night that baby tightened up twice to where the wheel wouldn`t spin but 1/2 revolution. I`ll put another nylock nut on there but this one has really good grip and always has. Do you think me loosening the action up to where I`m putting alot of force on that wheel, which I know I`m doing, during some serious fast shuffle skates could be causing that particular nut to rotate forward in the clockwise direction? None of the other ones on the other side of the skate were loosening, just that 1 tightening.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 03:18 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsk8s View Post
First the set up: (don`t need boot info), Advantage, Scotts SE/Fafnirs.
This has never happened with this skate, ever, BUT I have been gradually loosening my action some but its only happening on one wheel and its a new locknut that the nylock grips really well. The wheel in question is the front right wheel on the right skate. Last night that baby tightened up twice to where the wheel wouldn`t spin but 1/2 revolution. I`ll put another nylock nut on there but this one has really good grip and always has. Do you think me loosening the action up to where I`m putting alot of force on that wheel, which I know I`m doing, during some serious fast shuffle skates could be causing that particular nut to rotate forward in the clockwise direction? None of the other ones on the other side of the skate were loosening, just that 1 tightening.

Possibly. Swap the wheels and bearings side to side and see if it's the corner (axle) or the wheel / bearing assembly. If the problem does not move, swap the trucks end for end and see what happens. I have run into Snyder axles that are not as "fat" as they should be so the Nyloc may not be holding as well as you think it is ..
You may have started loading the nut to the point it won't hold. However, I would think that you would really need to pound the bearings to get to that level.. As in lock them up momentarily. Remember, deep groove ball bearings are not really designed or intended to take severe side loads.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 11:16 AM   #3
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If I may, do you use spacers ? I never saw a locknut do that, but in your case, maybe a spacer could help. It has to be precisely the good size. It won't prevent the lock nut to tighten, but with a good sized spacer, bearings will not get deformed, and your wheel should keep a good spin.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 01:46 PM   #4
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Is it possible that the axle has slipped a bit in the truck housing and pulled tight rather than the nut spinning?

Perhaps put a mark on the nut and see if it actually moves.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 06:27 PM   #5
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I`m leaning to the excessive side loading of that particular wheel because since I`ve gone to loosening my action I am now skating different, harder than I`ve ever skated before and that particular wheel/location is getting some serious side load excessiveness lol. So with that being said I guess if I continue skating this way, which I plan on NOT stopping lol I`ll just have to periodically check the nyloks during the sessions, something I can live with I guess Thanks Doc and everyone else.

Out of curiosity though, how would a spacer help when the wheel has an aluminum hub and the bearing seated all the way?
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Old September 16th, 2013, 07:24 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by gotsk8s View Post
Out of curiosity though, how would a spacer help when the wheel has an aluminum hub and the bearing seated all the way?

IF the spacer is optimally sized so as to keep the balls centered in the races of both bearings (NOT easy to do, contrary to things others have posted elsewhere) you can torque the nut down against the spacer. In fact you could use the tiny 3/8" nuts from loose ball axles since the self locking feature is no longer necessary.

In your situation, it might be beneficial..
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Old September 17th, 2013, 02:23 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsk8s View Post
Out of curiosity though, how would a spacer help when the wheel has an aluminum hub and the bearing seated all the way?
This question make me think that you may not be fully aware of what actually happen inside your wheel while you skate.

First of all, the inside rings of your bearings are not supposed to move at all, That include, not rotate at all around your axle, as it may damage the axle and the inner ring, and not move at all along the axle, as this may damage the bearing.

There are mainly 2 places where your bearing is submitted to efforts when you tighten it : from the outside of the wheel, on the inner ring, lock nut tighten the bearings to the inside of the wheel. From the inside of the wheel, on the outer ring, the hub is resisting the movement. These 2 forces cause the bearings to move in a way it's not made for, and if you tighten it to much between these 2 points, it stops turning. And this is bad.
Having a precisely cut spacer will make tightening the lock nut safe, since the force will not deform the bearings, but just go through the spacer and the 2 inner rings right to the hanger.

Coming back to my first point, actually, nothing is supposed to move except for the bearing's insides. The wheel shall not move around the bearings, the bearings shall not move around the axle. Thus, the bearing inner ring shall not be able to rotate the lock nut, since it's not supposed to move at all itself.

Sorry if i'm not very understandable, being french with a very limited english, It's hard to deliver technical explanations. (believe me, i'm trying my best)
Here is a good video about spacers anyway :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPVBRc4-nTQ

Edit : One more thing :
If your bearings are not correctly lubrificated (to much sticky grease), the inner ring would be more likely to turn around the axle (with very fast bearings, inner ring won't move when spinning wheels, even without any locknut, since the bearing inside movement will create less friction than the inner ring turning around the axle) , as a simple rule, on a wheel without spacer, I always tighten the lock nut to the precise point where the inner ring does not move at all when I spin the wheel, but not any much, since after this point, it will deform the bearing.
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Old September 16th, 2013, 07:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cass38a View Post
Is it possible that the axle has slipped a bit in the truck housing and pulled tight rather than the nut spinning?

Perhaps put a mark on the nut and see if it actually moves.
This sounds right.

When your right foot push stroke is at peak force, the front inside wheel is pushing the inside axle nut axle inward as if it wants to pull the axle right out through the the truck to the left. If truck is not gripping tightly enough on axle, then it slides inward a bit, also pulling the right side axle nut inward just enough to pinch the balls of the right wheel's outer bearing and make the bearing's inner race spin some number of revolutions on the axle.

When stroke force ends, the spinning stops, but each stroke cycle spins the inner race some and friction then shifts the nut a bit tighter until the bearing finally gets pinched so much it stays frozen by the incremental tightening. Heat can also build up if this process is gradual, versus sudden, which can also weaken the nylon's grip.

-Armadillo
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Old September 16th, 2013, 08:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
This sounds right.

When your right foot push stroke is at peak force, the front inside wheel is pushing the inside axle nut axle inward as if it wants to pull the axle right out through the the truck to the left. If truck is not gripping tightly enough on axle, then it slides inward a bit, also pulling the right side axle nut inward just enough to pinch the balls of the right wheel's outer bearing and make the bearing's inner race spin some number of revolutions on the axle.

When stroke force ends, the spinning stops, but each stroke cycle spins the inner race some and friction then shifts the nut a bit tighter until the bearing finally gets pinched so much it stays frozen by the incremental tightening. Heat can also build up if this process is gradual, versus sudden, which can also weaken the nylon's grip.

-Armadillo
This sounds wrong because the nut on the opposing wheel would have to be loose and that was not the case, either time. The wheel never got so tight that it completely quit spinning, it got close but not that close.
I will just try the spacer thing on that wheel, provided I can get one the correct size.
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