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Roller Derby Forum Discussions about banked-track and flat-track roller derby events, teams, skaters, and training methods.

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Old May 16th, 2015, 10:45 PM   #21
Mort
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
If you love skating your DA-45 plates outdoors, for whatever reasons, I can only tell you that for mainly straight ahead, asphalt trail outdoor speed skating, with proper speed skater low stance form, other styles of less steep action angle plates will allow you to skate at faster sustained speed than you can with the more exaggerated turning response DA-45 style of plates.

The higher the skater skill level of the outdoor-rolling DA45 lover, the more their disadvantages can me minimized, but they will always be present and working against you to some degree.

-Armadillo
I very much disagree with this. ALOT. I consider myself a advanced/expert skater and find that my arius equipped skate and my carrera with a probe plate are very much the same outdoors, with the arius being faster if you ask me. Also the avenger/invader of my friends I skated felt equally as fast as the other 2 just heavier. I've skated a lot of setups indoors and out, various wheels cushions etc, and cannot side with steeper KP angles being faster in any scope.
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Old May 17th, 2015, 07:14 PM   #22
Armadillo
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Well Mort.

Being as you are a member of the "Highest Skills Level" category of skaters, you clearly prove my point.

However, unlike you, merely average to good outdoor speed skaters will typically skate on DA45 setups at measurably slower speeds compared to similarly configured skates having steeper kingpin (shallower action angle) plate setups.

The main reason for this is that the action geometry of steeper KP (non-DA45) plates allows for a wider push extension with a more horizontally extended leg, but without requiring as much lateral ankle bending to hold the best push arc track.

Similarly wide push strokes using DA45 setups demands the ankle be laterally bent more sharply than with 0-15 degree KP plate setups, which is more difficult, and which when not maintained sharply enough bent causes the arc of the push stroke to turn inward prematurely, before as much power can be extracted as it can from a more fully leg extended stroke.

If you have super excellent range and control of your lateral ankle bending, you can still overcome this DA45 design characteristic of minimum plate lean giving exaggerated, over responding turning, but not all skaters can reach that level of sharp ankle bending range and precise control.

This DA45 exaggerated turning response becomes a potential weakness when proper form high speed skating, holding a low stance and using laterally wider push strokes is the goal.

The key thing that must be present for the DA 0-15 plates to have a speed advantage though is that their suspensions must be tuned for free turning throughout the full range of their truck swing, which is rarely the case. This allows all wheels to stay down easily at maximum plate lean, when the ankle is bending to the max. and stroke is fully extending.

Typically, steeper KP plate setups will have their suspension tuning set so that the truck turning resistance ramps up too quickly, well before reaching the full range of potential truck swing, and this results in the outer wheels tending to come up off the rolling surface prematurely near the end of a full extension leg push cycle, ahead of the point where the leg reaches its peak horizontal extension. This resulting loss of wheel grip at the end of the push cycle diminishes the full potential power that would oherwise be available when all four wheels remain down and gripping through the full possible horizontal range of the push stroke.

Once I realized this issue, I retired my outdoor DA45 setup skates from outdoor speed use to exclusively outdoor slalom use, for which they work very well. Occasionally, when the lake shore path here in Chicago is too busy and crowded to safely hold high speeds, I will use the DA45 setup for a fun shuffle kind of trail skating session.

-Armadillo
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Last edited by Armadillo; May 19th, 2015 at 06:39 PM.
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Old May 18th, 2015, 04:19 PM   #23
Fancy-Kerrigan
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Regarding - speed and stability. Yes, it is easier to balance at speed (think of riding a bike). I don't know what pads are available in the UK. I have triple 8 gear and the only issue so far is that the velcro closure on the wrist guards give out. I've had to stitch replacement hooks onto the straps.

Regarding - DA45 set up. There is a thread on here about tuning your DA45 to offer more stability at speed. My best friend had very good results with hers after she swapped out some cushions. At the other end of the spectrum, I have tuned my Prolines to turn on a dime and pick up 5 cents.
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Old May 18th, 2015, 09:24 PM   #24
redneck rampage
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Thanks Fancy, I ordered the Seba pad set, think they are french, look well put together and should be ok. Also ordered some PowerDyne magic cushions (yellow) as they seem well thought of on here. Should be here tomorrow. I like your slow cycling analogy , it helped me to understand that trying to skate slowly and with some degree of control was perhaps a bit too advanced for my current skill level. When the pad set arrives I will venture outside and take my chances.
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Old May 19th, 2015, 03:43 PM   #25
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That's great!
Keep us posted.
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