I'm going vegetarian......here's why........

[jammn'beck]

Originally Posted by rwsz

more ribs and steaks for us meat lovers,,,,yummy,,,,,should keep the prices lower too lol. although i love veggies and plenty of fish and shellfish.

but do you KNOW or CARE how big meat industries TREAT thest animals??
I suggest you do alittle checking into it, unless you just don't care.
HEY, I looooooooooooooooooooooove meat too!! prime rib and barbeque
chicken are amongst my favorites!! BUT, I am willing to give that all up
in the name of taking a STAND for what's right......
what if YOU were one of those animals having its teeth broken off??
living in filth and disease??........pumped full of chemicals and used and
abused until you met your miserable end??........I'm sorry, but viewpoints
like yours just make me realize how insensitive and brutal human beings
can be, just so they can satisfy THEMSELVES.
no offense..........but it does p!$$ me off, and I'm just speaking my mind.
if I make a few enemies, so be it.......but maybe, JUST MAYBE, I will get
a few of you to THINK about it.

[jammn'beck]

Originally Posted by beep1o

IF you want to ge veg, go veg. But, I think that she's saying don't go overboard. For example, if you have a cat, you still have to provide it with meat products and thus "support" that industry. You may think this is odd, but there are a lot of Vegans who think its humane to feed cats, which cannot synthesize the proteins they need from anything but meat, a vegan diet. They end up with a very sick or dead cat before they realize that their enthusiasm for eschewing animal products might not be fit for their pets.

That being said wtf is wrong with organic milk? It has no hormones, and let me tell you, the quickest way to make an unhappy cow is to not milk it. We always got our milk from the local dairy...the cows weren't mistreated, they happily roamed around. Unless you are lactose intolerant, this milk isn't hurting anything. (Notice I didn't say it was improving your health, but it isn't making it worse.)

ok, first of all........if I hadda CAT.......which I DONT........I would feed it
ORGANIC cat food.......that way I KNOW the animals being used for food were being treated HUMANELY.........second of all.........AND THIS IS WHY I SAY DO YOUR HOMEWORK........
if you're GOING to drink milk, ORGANIC milk IS the way to go........but don't be fooled..........the USDA still have their grimy little fingers in the pot and want their cut of the billion dollar organic business........therefore.....they have changed around the LAWS to benefit themselves, however, ORGANIC
milk and ORGANIC farmers STILL adhere to their humane standards for the most part. SECOND,.........obviously, you aren't aware that in order to produce milk, a female cow must be kept CONTINUOUSLY pregnant........
what the big milk manufacturers do is artificially INSEMINATE these cows to keep them producing milk.......then, when the calf is born (if that's what you want to call it......really, the calf is basically "snatched" from its mother.....and these cows "CRY" for their babies!!! YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME?? THEN WHATEVER!! )....... the calf is immediately taken away to be slammed into a small cage on a veal farm, where it can't even turn around in its filthy, dark stall.......alone, no mother, to be pumped full of antibiotics and fed a
mixture of whatever the big meat manufacturer wants the calve to eat (and God only knows whats in THAT!........SO, yes, those cows on your utopic farm you grew up on, always walkin' around (how it's SUPPOSED to be??)
were PREGNANT!!........naturally.......
but THATS not how it's done anymore!!
JUST THE FACTS.......

In case people have not noticed, Wal-mart (which is the biggest seller of both milk and organic milk) has declared that their suppliers must go hormone free. [/QUOTE]

This is the reason I think Vegans are nutso, and people have to careful about the anti-meat propaganda. [/QUOTE]


umm.....they're NOT nutso.......they CARE......AND HOLD THEMSELVES TO A HIGHER STANDARD.


[/QUOTE]I find out on my own. [/QUOTE]


there is still obviously ALOT you haven't found out on your own.
and I DONT believe everything I read.......but I use CREDIBLE sources for my information, my common sense and my putrifying meat-free gut to discern truth from YOU KNOW WHAT.

[jammn'beck]

Originally Posted by beep1o

IF you want to ge veg, go veg. But, I think that she's saying don't go overboard.

I'm NOT going overboard.........I am just being a bit passionate about what I have recently found out that has sickened me to the core.
I WAS SOOOOOOO MISINFORMED!!!......and I'm just trying to let others who are also misinformed what's REALLY going on out there. SOME MAY NOT KNOW!.......then again, some may not even CARE!.....but some MAY CARE!!
like I do........I am not going to continue to debate this issue.......because I know the FACTS and don't need to defend myself.......the TRUTH is that billions of animals are being HORRIFYINGLY mistreated all so we can fill our stinkin' pie holes full of meat........
maybe someone who's NOT afraid of the blunt truth will see this and realize that a CHANGE needs to happen........it can only happen one person at a time, and, all I can do is change what IM doing.......I cant change YOU,
only try to shed some light on this sickening travesty of selfish greed and
suffering unleashed on innocent animals.

I REFUSE to make excuses anymore.

[jammn'beck]

anyone who's reading this thread and not posting.....who MAY be really THINKING about what I've been saying.......
you can visit......
GoVeg.com........read the newsletters, articles and information.
educate yourselves........get the FACTS.......then decide for yourselves what you will or will not do.
thanx
B.

[rwsz]

to be honest i dont think about those things on how the meatplants operate or how clean they are. although i do care about abuse and unclean conditions. our government is suppose to be on top of this and making sure it doesnt happen. they should do their jobs and things will be better for us and the animals. there are humane ways to do this.

[beep1o]

Originally Posted by jammn'beck

SECOND,.........obviously, you aren't aware that in order to produce milk, a female cow must be kept CONTINUOUSLY pregnant........
what the big milk manufacturers do is artificially INSEMINATE these cows to keep them producing milk.......then, when the calf is born (if that's what you want to call it......really, the calf is basically "snatched" from its mother.....and these cows "CRY" for their babies!!! YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME?? THEN WHATEVER!! )....... the calf is immediately taken away to be slammed into a small cage on a veal farm, where it can't even turn around in its filthy, dark stall.......alone, no mother, to be pumped full of antibiotics and fed a
mixture of whatever the big meat manufacturer wants the calve to eat (and God only knows whats in THAT!........SO, yes, those cows on your utopic farm you grew up on, always walkin' around (how it's SUPPOSED to be??)
were PREGNANT!!........naturally.......
but THATS not how it's done anymore!!
JUST THE FACTS.......

You totally missed the part where I didn't deny that some large companies do bad things. The point is however, that not ALL of them do.

Beck, I happen to know my local small dairy farmer personally, and he doesn't send the calves off to the veal farm. This is a tiny dairy. They don't send their milk off to get processed, they sell it right there. Its all organic, and nobody gets pumped full of hormones. And guess what? He has a bull. It does a fine job making pregnant cows NATURALLY. I've also seen calves being born, and there is no snatching there, he lets them stay with their mothers. Have you ever even set foot on a farm like this? I'm guessing not.

You obviously don't know much about biology, because once you start a mammal lactating, it doesn't stop until the milk is no longer extracted. This is how humans nurse too. You don't have to keep getting pregnant, you just have to keep extracting the milk. The volume drops off, but so? A cow that hasn't been milked is in a lot of pain. Your ignorance is really showing hard here.

Just because large commercial producers do things one way, doesn't mean that everyone does. That's what I mean about educating yourself. That's fine though, enjoy your brainwashing and continue to walk around blind. Its sounds at this point that even if you were to see humanely treated cows in person, you'd deny it was happening. That's sad.

I don't go around assuming every single person I meet is a thief just because I met one some that were. Insisting every single farmer in the US is treating their animals inhumanely is equally silly.

[MistyMills]

I'm friends with a dairy farmer and his conditions are not 'inhumane' or anything close to it. Those cows live better than most animals!

However, I know a lot of vegetarians and vegans. I spend most of my time in Ann Arbor, after all. The place that the 70s hippie movement never faded... I buy a lot of organic items, mostly because I do a lot of shopping at Whole Foods as I have to purchase all of my gluten-free items there.

I haven't done a lot of research into the whole 'humans are not supposed to eat (red) meat!' thing, but I know that we're not designed to eat wheat, we have a hard time processing it and 1 in 122 people can't tolerate it. I had no idea until I found out I was 1 in 122 and had to do a lot of reading up on it.

While I applaud people who want to take a stand for what they believe in, I have to ask you what you honestly think putting up flyers in a store will do. It might be seen by a couple of customers, but it isn't guaranteed to change their mind. In fact, even if it does make them rethink their meat purchase for that day, the meat industry isn't going to make a change based on that. All that happens is that the store loses a sale. If you want to make true change, become involved with or begin a group that goes directly to the source. Talk to your federal and state representatives. Start petitions.

Personally, I'm already on a way way way limited diet. I like my slab of meat. I've evolved to the top of the food chain, so I'm going to take advantage of it. It doesn't mean I like animals to be mistreated. I don't. But I'm going to eat them, even though I have full respect for the many people I know who do not. I don't mind them eating bread in front of me (which I LOVE and could kill me) and they put up with my love of meat.

I also find it interesting that people will think hormone free automatically means cruelty free. It just means it's better for the consumer, not for the animal that was used for the meat or animal by-product (milk, etc).

[jammn'beck]

Originally Posted by rwsz

to be honest i dont think about those things on how the meatplants operate or how clean they are. although i do care about abuse and unclean conditions. our government is suppose to be on top of this and making sure it doesnt happen. they should do their jobs and things will be better for us and the animals. there are humane ways to do this.

but what you dont understand is that the GOVT. is in BED with the meatpacking industry!........they BACK them up and make special allotments
so they can continue the cruel treatment.......
ugh........dude.......you need to take alittle time out to research the FACTS.
I'm not gonna spoon-feed you.

[beep1o]

Originally Posted by MistyMills

I also find it interesting that people will think hormone free automatically means cruelty free. It just means it's better for the consumer, not for the animal that was used for the meat or animal by-product (milk, etc).

I think that's a result of the militant vegans who always say that injecting animals with hormones is cruel. Its logical then, that not injecting them with hormones removes that particular "cruel" act.

I don't have a problem with people who are vegetarian, (and I have friends that are vegan even though there is no logic in assuming every animal product was produced in a cruel manner...c'mon free range eggs are hurting NO ONE) but I can't stand being preached to about how I must be evil for my choices. Its just the same with religious nuts. I don't care what you chose to beleive, but you have no right to tell me I'm going to hell, or impose those beliefs on me.

As for humans not being "made" to eat, meat, wheat, milk or whatever, that's simply not true. Our genes have changed over time, allowing us to expand our diets. Only people of white European ancestry can tolerate milk. That's because they lived in a harsh northern climate where being able to tolerate milk meant you were better able to survive. Chinese people are almost completely lactose intolerant, since they never had to relay on that, nor did they have a dairy culture. (Which is good, cause they invented all those soy products) Its the same for wheat. At some point the people who could eat it survived longer, so it became a common gene. That there are people who cannot just shows that genetic variation exists. And that the population of the world is mixing up its gene pool. It doesn't mean we weren't "meant" not to eat things. With that reasoning I'd have to say I was "meant" to drink milk because I'm lactose tolerant. Otherwise, why would my body digest it so well?

[jammn'beck]

Originally Posted by beep1o

You totally missed the part where I didn't deny that some large companies do bad things. The point is however, that not ALL of them do.

what the hell?? did you totally MISS the part where I said ORGANIC milk was acceptable???.......and I'm not TALKING about little dairy farms.......I'm talking about the HUGE conglomerates that take cows and make their udders swell up to 3X the normal AMOUNT!! ......just so they can make more $$$$$

I KNOW cows that aren't milked are in PAIN......that's not the issue here.......
cows on a large production milk farm aren't even ALLOWED to have their udders empty!! once the milk is extracted......they continually KEEP the process going in order to maintain PEAK production.......they even milk them when their udders become sore, infected and inflamed......it doesn't MATTER to them......as long as they meet their friggin' quotas........


[/QUOTE=beep1o;141565]Beck, I happen to know my local small dairy farmer personally, and he doesn't send the calves off to the veal farm. This is a tiny dairy. They don't send their milk off to get processed, they sell it right there. Its all organic, and nobody gets pumped full of hormones. And guess what? He has a bull. It does a fine job making pregnant cows NATURALLY. I've also seen calves being born, and there is no snatching there, he lets them stay with their mothers. Have you ever even set foot on a farm like this? I'm guessing not. [/QUOTE]

ahh, YES I have.......my dad's side of the family LIVED on a farm.......and uh, I live in WISCONSIN.........lol.......

[/QUOTE=beep1o;141565]You obviously don't know much about biology, because once you start a mammal lactating, it doesn't stop until the milk is no longer extracted. This is how humans nurse too. You don't have to keep getting pregnant, you just have to keep extracting the milk. The volume drops off, but so? A cow that hasn't been milked is in a lot of pain. Your ignorance is really showing hard here.[/QUOTE]

no, yours is, because I wasn't even TALKING about small dairy farms........and how dumb is it to assume that I don't know a non-milked cow would be in pain??........lmao........who's really ignorant here??


[/QUOTE=beep1o;141565]Just because large commercial producers do things one way, doesn't mean that everyone does. That's what I mean about educating yourself. That's fine though, enjoy your brainwashing and continue to walk around blind. Its sounds at this point that even if you were to see humanely treated cows in person, you'd deny it was happening. That's sad.

I don't go around assuming every single person I meet is a thief just because I met one some that were. Insisting every single farmer in the US is treating their animals inhumanely is equally silly.[/QUOTE]


tell you what.......I'll continue to educate myself......you continue to wiggle your head deeper and deeper into the sand.

I'll say it again, like I said in the beginning........what part of "organic milk is ok" but be aware........didn't you understand???

[beep1o]

Originally Posted by jammn'beck

I'll say it again, like I said in the beginning........what part of "organic milk is ok" but be aware........didn't you understand???

Its right where the next word you typed was BUT and proceed to imply that the USDA still was corrupting it. In English, when you form a sentence like that, it means you think that the reason after the conjunction modifies the first statement. Hence I got it from what you wrote. If that's not what you meant, you might want to be clearer. You never said you were talking about inorganic milk there, just said organic and then went off. If you don't have any problem with organic milk whatsoever, why did you insert the rant after that statement at all? I never talked about ANYTHING but organic milk if you look, so I don't see why that got me a lecture about the evils of non-organic milk?

[jammn'beck]

Originally Posted by MistyMills

While I applaud people who want to take a stand for what they believe in, I have to ask you what you honestly think putting up flyers in a store will do. It might be seen by a couple of customers, but it isn't guaranteed to change their mind. In fact, even if it does make them rethink their meat purchase for that day, the meat industry isn't going to make a change based on that. All that happens is that the store loses a sale. If you want to make true change, become involved with or begin a group that goes directly to the source. Talk to your federal and state representatives. Start petitions.

I put the flyers in the meat bunkers because it was the only thing I could do on an immediate basis..........don't ASSUME I haven't made arrangements with organizations or calls to state/local representatives or people who have alot to do with this. DONT EVER ASSUME........
putting flyers in a meat bunker is better than sitting on your stinkin' hands doing NOTHING.
what if someone like ME read those flyers??.......decided NOT to buy any meat and went home and went on their computer and researched the TRUTH??........you dont think the potential is high for THAT??.......
gee.......how many vegans are out there anyway??........GEE.....how do you think they ended UP like that??........hmmmmmm.......let's seeeeeee.........

[beep1o]

Beck, I'm not going to assume anything, so here's a question. DO you think its ok to go around telling people they are going to go to hell if they aren't Christian too? 'Cause it amounts to same thing. Beliefs.

[jammn'beck]

is that I started this thread NOT to debate vegetarianism........but to EDUCATE those who were like ME and didn't know the TRUTH about how animals are treated on LARGE PRODUCTION-TYPE MEAT AND DAIRY FARMS.....

I'll say it again........

LARGE......PRODUCTION-TYPE MEAT AND DAIRY FARMS......AND OH....PROCESSING PLANTS......


I have no DESIRE to debate this issue with people........I know the TRUTH.......and yes, the truth HURTS .......so most people will turn a deaf ear or will poo poo it or turn away........but it's still the TRUTH.......
the main thing is .......is that if you DON'T know the FACTS......and you do CARE about this issue........EDUCATE yourself.........
go to GoVeg.com........READ.........then decide for yourself.......
I'm not trying to CHANGE anyone's mind..........
the only person's mind who I can change is MY OWN........
enough said.

[jammn'beck]

Originally Posted by beep1o

Its right where the next word you typed was BUT and proceed to imply that the USDA still was corrupting it. In English, when you form a sentence like that, it means you think that the reason after the conjunction modifies the first statement. Hence I got it from what you wrote. If that's not what you meant, you might want to be clearer. You never said you were talking about inorganic milk there, just said organic and then went off. If you don't have any problem with organic milk whatsoever, why did you insert the rant after that statement at all? I never talked about ANYTHING but organic milk if you look, so I don't see why that got me a lecture about the evils of non-organic milk?

what I was SAYING........and I'm sorry I have to be soooo precise for you.....I thought maybe you'd pick up what I was puttin' down......alas
is that the USDA is sooooooo greedy, (and YES there have been CRIMINAL LAWSUITS against the USDA) that THEY want their CUT of the billion dollar ORGANIC industry........and watchdog companies have UNCOVERED situations where the USDA (and FDA, for that matter) have CHANGED or TRIED to change laws governing the STANDARDS by which organic milk/dairy can be produced!.......I'm not going into it........YOU REALLY NEED TO DO SOME HOMEWORK ON THIS.....cuz you OBVIOUSLY know NOTHING about it..........
it's all done in the name of the almighty $$$ ......but it's a good thing that organic farmers and people like me stand UP for this "pulling of the wool over the eyes" crap.........or else, the USDA would have completely overrun the organic industry and started putting the same **** in it as is in regular food.
The federal govt. will screw you any way it can........there is crap in the food you eat that would BOGGLE your mind!......they put **** in there that on a molecular level resembles ROCKET FUEL!!!.........you think I'm kidding???.......
you better get busy,,,,,,,,start doing some digging........and in the meantime
TRUST NO ONE when it comes to what you put in your body.
read every single lable on the food you buy......and even THEN......still scrutinize......cuz those could be lies too........
oh, it may seem like I'm a fanatic.......lol......I'm not though........
my eyes have just been OPENED.........and Ima use this knowledge in a savvy, practical and survivalist-type way..........
just look around you........
it's happening.......slowly.......
you can ignore it .......
push it to the back of your mind......
justify it.......
laugh it off........
the govt. doesn't give one red **** about you........
BUT I DO!!
even though you rake me over the coals.....I still care about you,
and all those people out there who are being DUPED.

[Drella]

Originally Posted by beep1o

Beck, I'm not going to assume anything, so here's a question. DO you think its ok to go around telling people they are going to go to hell if they aren't Christian too? 'Cause it amounts to same thing. Beliefs.

Beep! Kill the mode dude,,, it's alright.

No one here is telling you what to do. She's just giving anyone who's interested, the skinny on meat and the industry.

Oh-- and the word "belief," you've chosen, has nothing to do with it. There's a butt-load of "fact" to back it all up..

[jammn'beck]

Originally Posted by beep1o

Beck, I'm not going to assume anything, so here's a question. DO you think its ok to go around telling people they are going to go to hell if they aren't Christian too? 'Cause it amounts to same thing. Beliefs.

beep.......I am not.......(and I thought I clearly stated this when I said I can change no one.....only put the information OUT THERE)........trying to impose my personal decisions on anyone..........heck, if you wanna EAT the stuff they're shoveling out..........GO FOR IT!!......be my guest........
but what I'm trying to do is ALERT people to the truth .........so they can
EDUCATE themselves.........and make their OWN decision!!

can I be more CLEAR than that????
can I??
..................

[jammn'beck]

I thank God.....that I was presented with this information........it helped me to be more INFORMED........

it opened my EYES!!.......to the corruptness, cruelty and sickness out there..............these things I can do EVERYTHING in my own personal power to AVOID from here on in..........

now, do you think I'd be making these decisions NOW had it not been for someone TELLING me about it????????????

lol.......no.......I'd still be walking around like the mis-informed individual I
WAS!........supporting something,,,,HAD I KNOWN ABOUT.......would've NEVER supported in the first place!!

[jammn'beck]

Originally Posted by Drella

Beep! Kill the mode dude,,, it's alright.

No one here is telling you what to do. She's just giving anyone who's interested, the skinny on meat and the industry.

Oh-- and the word "belief," you've chosen, has nothing to do with it. There's a butt-load of "fact" to back it all up..

woooo hoo!! thanks sir doe.......

hey, where's my gnnoch??.......

[beep1o]

My original statement, which i guess no one bothered to read, was "wtf is wrong with drinking organic milk?" I don't see how getting a response about the evils of non organic milk and eating meat and the usda is even RELEVANT to that question.

My point is (and has been) that saying you're a Vegan because ALL animal products are produced cruelly is a bunch of silliness. Its simply not true.

I realize you aren't Vegan Beck, and the comment had nothing to do with you personally so the resulting lectures were uncalled for.

And last, people's opinion on what constitutes cruelty to animals is a belief system. What some beleive is cruel, others have no issues with.