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Speed Skating Forum Most of the discussions in this forum will be about inline speed skating but discussions about ice speed skating and quad roller speed skating are also welcome.

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Old November 16th, 2015, 09:10 AM   #1
ajasen
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Default Does jogging help preseve skating fitness?

After doing my 1st A2A, and with the subsequent change in weather and sunlight, I've been wanting to do less skating and more jogging. But I feel guilty that I'm detraining my skating, and will have to start over again in the spring.

Have you tried mostly running for a season (skating at least 1-2x week though)? How is your skating in the Spring?
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Old November 16th, 2015, 11:10 AM   #2
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In my experience, yes.. massively.
I took up regular running a couple of years ago as a way to cross-train for skating, and it has helped my overall fitness immensely.
The weight-bearing and eccentric loading elements of running toughen you and make you a far more well-rounded overall athlete.
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Old November 16th, 2015, 12:42 PM   #3
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I've heard Michael Cheek used running as cross training, but I don't know for sure. I personally do not like running at all.

Anyway, let's break it down a bit:
Cardio - Yes, it will help. Your heart doesn't much care why it is pumping more blood, and your red blood cell count will still rise as long as you do any cardio exercise.

Mental - Yes. You still have to work your way through pain. You get used to getting in a zone and continuing on. It might even help with fatigue caused by just skating too much.

Strength/Power/Muscle endurance - To a point. The muscle groups used are similar, but they do not match exactly. It will help some, but not as much as skating.

Technique - Not at all. But you said you will still skate 1-2 times a week. Don't focus as much on cardio during those skates. Work on low & slow to really hone the technique (this will also help with the strength and muscle endurance).
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Old November 16th, 2015, 01:49 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by ajasen View Post
After doing my 1st A2A, and with the subsequent change in weather and sunlight, I've been wanting to do less skating and more jogging. But I feel guilty that I'm detraining my skating, and will have to start over again in the spring.
You will certainly suffer a detraining effect, but that's OK, even desireable, over off-season/winter. One of the principles of training is that you need to backoff at some stage before you begin a new macro cycle, otherwise you won't unload the fatigue built up. When you start up training and building regularly again, so long as you have kept things ticking over then you will regain fitness quicker than you first built it, and then of course surpass it at the peak of your next cycle.

http://alancouzens.blogspot.co.uk/20...se-of-all.html
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Old November 16th, 2015, 02:40 PM   #5
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The best cross-training for me has always been riding my bmx freestyle bike. I believe too much running is hard on the joints.
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Old November 16th, 2015, 02:53 PM   #6
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The best cross-training for me has always been riding my bmx freestyle bike. I believe too much running is hard on the joints.
LOL, this is what most non-runners believe - "Too much running will bugger your knees and destroy your joints". If anything I would say the reverse is true - I used to have dodgy knees but since I have taken up running, and adopted zero-drop footwear and done whole-body functional strength work, my knee problems are practically zero.

The problem is modern lifestyle, not running (or any other sporting activity).
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Old November 16th, 2015, 03:28 PM   #7
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LOL, this is what most non-runners believe - "Too much running will bugger your knees and destroy your joints". If anything I would say the reverse is true - I used to have dodgy knees but since I have taken up running, and adopted zero-drop footwear and done whole-body functional strength work, my knee problems are practically zero.

The problem is modern lifestyle, not running (or any other sporting activity).
Glad it's working for you. You must be doing something right. I know a handful of ex-avid runners who've undergone knee surgery. One of them stepped into a small chuck hole, twisting the knee, others had different running injuries.

I like biking because the leg motion replicates full leg extension skating strokes.
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Old November 16th, 2015, 05:27 PM   #8
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You absolutely can destroy your knees by running if you land with your heel. I never ran track, but it is my understanding is that a heel-toe stride was taught for many years because it is more efficient (it is, and it works well for walking). Certainly running shoes were designed to help a heel-toe stride until relatively recently. With proper technique there should not be knee problems, although obviously there will always be some individuals who will encounter them.

My bigger problems with running were the inability to get into a zone and controlling the breathing. FYI, if you have a sharp pain in the side of your abdomen when you run the solution is often pretty simple. Just make sure to exhale when your left foot hits the ground. When I really concentrate that's every other stride for me, but the timing of my breathing and strides do not quite match up on their own.
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Old November 16th, 2015, 06:59 PM   #9
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Running works, but I prefer biking even if it is indoors on a trainer. Running is hard on joints, no way around it. Running can help certain types of knee pain if that pain is muscle weakness related and not true joint problems.
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Old November 17th, 2015, 06:42 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by evilzzz View Post
LOL, this is what most non-runners believe - "Too much running will bugger your knees and destroy your joints". If anything I would say the reverse is true - I used to have dodgy knees but since I have taken up running, and adopted zero-drop footwear and done whole-body functional strength work, my knee problems are practically zero.

The problem is modern lifestyle, not running (or any other sporting activity).
+1 Me too, so long as I don't overdo it.

Still can't ride a bike anymore, the repetitive motion and whatever else it is about it leaves me with global knee pain, then they don't feel right all week!
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Old November 17th, 2015, 10:03 AM   #11
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+1 Me too, so long as I don't overdo it.

Still can't ride a bike anymore, the repetitive motion and whatever else it is about it leaves me with global knee pain, then they don't feel right all week!
It's one of my aims to become what I consider a well-rounded athlete - I skate, run, bike, strength train, and even recently rediscovered the swimming pool this winter. I take each of those on their own merit... they all have something to offer.

Rather than look at a cross-training activity it as something that will preserve the most skate fitness, I would encourage you to flip it around the other way - look at the benefits that you will get from working different muscle groups that aren't regularly used and have become weaker. Running is great for this because it's an full body action. Swimming too. Cycling? Less so imo. It depends what you are trying to do - build fitness (in-season) or shed fatigue (off-season). The body doesn't like imbalance that comes from too too much of one thing only, so by getting good at something completely different, you will bring more balance to your muscle groups and allow better long term development. That's the value of cross-training to keep your body balanced, and not to work the same muscles.

You can also think about it this way: if you cross-train regularly and keep your body in good strong overall balance, then you will lose less "skate fitness" over the winter as you body is not as out-of-whack as if you had over-specialized in doing only one thing all the time. Specificity can be both a blessing and a curse.
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Old November 17th, 2015, 02:11 PM   #12
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IMHO, any anaerobic exercise will keep the pump primed and the lungs lustful, fine tuning the muscle memory for speed skating will be easier after a winter of anaerobic exercise, while on the other hand aerobic exercise will be wonderful for other aerobic exercise, say.. mt biking will be good for session skating.
Personally, my anaerobic exercises are road bicycling and snowboarding in hard boots (alpine), and my aerobic exercises to keep the body flexible are rollerskating (outdoor only) and horseback riding, the skating (takes the whole summer) straightens out my body from being sideways (somewhat) all winter on the snowboard, and the horseback riding loosens up the pelvis that get's frozen during the winter.

Knees aren't an organ, they don't have a pulse, they don't have blood flow to keep them warm, they simply are a point that muscles above and below are attached to, and if the muscles aren't grown properly and fed properly they are the point of pain, but the mis-treated muscles are the culprit, oh' exercising on a bicycle or running in the cold with bare knees will cause problems, and if done for years will cause catastrophic problems, common sense is required.
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Old November 17th, 2015, 03:14 PM   #13
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IMHO, any anaerobic exercise will keep the pump primed and the lungs lustful, fine tuning the muscle memory for speed skating will be easier after a winter of anaerobic exercise, while on the other hand aerobic exercise will be wonderful for other aerobic exercise, say.. mt biking will be good for session skating.
Personally, my anaerobic exercises are road bicycling and snowboarding in hard boots (alpine), and my aerobic exercises to keep the body flexible are rollerskating (outdoor only) and horseback riding, the skating (takes the whole summer) straightens out my body from being sideways (somewhat) all winter on the snowboard, and the horseback riding loosens up the pelvis that get's frozen during the winter.

Knees aren't an organ, they don't have a pulse, they don't have blood flow to keep them warm, they simply are a point that muscles above and below are attached to, and if the muscles aren't grown properly and fed properly they are the point of pain, but the mis-treated muscles are the culprit, oh' exercising on a bicycle or running in the cold with bare knees will cause problems, and if done for years will cause catastrophic problems, common sense is required.
What training manual did you pluck lot that out of? Because I couldn't disagree more. If fitness was just a case of replacing intensity for volume then I guess all these olympic athletes have been doing it wrong for the last 50 years or more.

Nearly any coach will tell you that you need to let go of fitness over winter, and focus on technique, strength, and base building. You are still many months away from your next competitive season (remember, this is the speed skating forum - we don't just skate for fitness, we train and race). There is a time for anaerobic work, but it is only when you have put in the groundwork.

You cannot be at 100% fitness all the time. Just as you structure a recovery day in a training week, or a recovery week into a training block, you should structure a recovery phase in a training cycle. The irony is that athletes who are afraid to let go of their hard-earned fitness over the winter are ultimately holding themselves back from getting fitter over the long term.
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Old November 17th, 2015, 09:18 PM   #14
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just to nit-pick... b'cuz I hear runners make this point time and again 'jogging and running are 2 different things': running is far more intense with added stress on joints and physically demanding, while jogging, on the other hand, helps to keep you fit, but builds up endurance at an easier pace with lesser impact. I personally mix up jogging and snow skiing with long track ice and the bike (on a trainer) during winter months along with yoga and stretching. Most people have very eclectic training programs. Anything one does off-skates has accumulative effect and added-value to your sustaining an overall fitness level.

Lateral movement sports and any balance sports will help sustain your skate fitness (balance). I can suggest if you have a rink (roller or ice) nearby to take advantage of doing either ice or inline roller freestyle to work on edging carving/balance stuff. I am always amazed how easy ice speedskating comes back when having been off my ice blades for summer, and vise versa. I only get on the ice average 1x per week during winter months, but it does helps me to maintain form, balance, skating posture, etc..
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Old November 17th, 2015, 11:27 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by evilzzz View Post
It's one of my aims to become what I consider a well-rounded athlete - I skate, run, bike, strength train, and even recently rediscovered the swimming pool this winter. I take each of those on their own merit... they all have something to offer.
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What training manual did you pluck lot that out of? Because I couldn't disagree more. If fitness was just a case of replacing intensity for volume then I guess all these olympic athletes have been doing it wrong for the last 50 years or more.

Nearly any coach will tell you that you need to let go of fitness over winter, and focus on technique, strength, and base building. You are still many months away from your next competitive season (remember, this is the speed skating forum - we don't just skate for fitness, we train and race). There is a time for anaerobic work, but it is only when you have put in the groundwork.

You cannot be at 100% fitness all the time. Just as you structure a recovery day in a training week, or a recovery week into a training block, you should structure a recovery phase in a training cycle. The irony is that athletes who are afraid to let go of their hard-earned fitness over the winter are ultimately holding themselves back from getting fitter over the long term.
So, after finishing the A2A you... that same day go for a 100 mile bike ride a 26 mile swim and then strength train also, that's quite a feat.
Or is it possible you do something or other all year long, and aren't on skates for a two or three month period while your feet heal?
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Old November 18th, 2015, 03:55 AM   #16
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Just as skating has good and bad form, so can running and jogging. One must be careful to not jar thier body up while changing over to jogging or running.

Id look for BJJ classes. Its a ridiculous trainer for core strength. Shrimp it up.!
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Old November 18th, 2015, 02:40 PM   #17
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Supposedly, running with minimalist shoes and using a toe strike method is much better for your knees.

However, the method is more difficult for those who have been heel striking all of their lives.

I prefer power walking at at least 4.5mph. It's much easier on the joints and a good upper body movement can be as effective as running.
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Old November 18th, 2015, 05:48 PM   #18
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Have you tried mostly running for a season (skating at least 1-2x week though)? How is your skating in the Spring?
If you manage to skate once or twice a week and also get in a lot of running, you'll probably be in reasonable shape in the spring. The only suggestion I have is to also find time for some skate-specific dry land training.
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Old November 26th, 2015, 11:13 PM   #19
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Hey there, my wheeled friends!
I just was passing some time and thought i would check in.
I gave up skating a few years ago and now run instead. I thought i would offer my opinion on this subject. And for a while i did do both, run and skate.
Running will keep you fit and depending what type of running you do, it can push your limits in ways that will benefit your skating.
I think the big thing to consider is this - the way most people approach running is not as a strength building exercise. It can be that, but few people will do the kind of runs that will build strength. Those runs would be things like hill sprints, regular sprints, running drills, and the like.
Skating reguires a degree of leg strength that few runners cultivate. Maybe only sprinters do.
So, in simple terms, running is good, but i would suggest supplementing it with strength building through things like step-ups, weights, body-weight exercises, plyometrics, stairs, bounding, kinetic bands, bosu ball exercises, slide-board, etc. And for that matter, exercises which emphesize balance, flexibility, and range of motion should also not be overlooked.
Variety is your friend when it comes to conditioning.
Running really lends itself to a very direct exercise of one's cardio-vascular system, endurance, and mobility. When you want to work harder, it's easy- just start running harder, and within minutes you are at as intense a level of exercise as you can handle or want. It's exercise in a direct drive platform, if you catch my drift. For that reason, it's a great way to build conditioning right from the beginning, with little no learning curve, no preparation, no technique to learn (maybe until later), etc. The only precaution is to not increase your mileage or speed too quickly or injuring yourself is very easy to do.
Hope this helps.
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Old December 3rd, 2015, 07:48 AM   #20
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http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26479024

no big surprises
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