S k a t e L o g     F o r u m
Inline Skating and Quad Roller Skating
Forum Hosts: Jessica Wright | Kathie Fry

FOLLOW US: Our Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Email    


Home - Forum Index - Africa Skating - Asia Skating - Europe Skating - Oceania Skating - Pan America Skating - Roller_Rinks - Friend the SkateLog Forum in Facebook - SkateLog Forum on Facebook

Forum Administrators: Jessica Wright and Kathie Fry | Email Us
Access code for buying and selling subforums: "skates"
How To Get a User Account and Posting Privileges in the SkateLog Forum
Use Google to Search the SkateLog Forum

Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Speed Skating Forum
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Speed Skating Forum Most of the discussions in this forum will be about inline speed skating but discussions about ice speed skating and quad roller speed skating are also welcome.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old November 1st, 2015, 01:11 AM   #21
LaterSkater
Junior Member
 
LaterSkater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shesk8 View Post
I am curious what ice boot you are using for short track? Inline are simply a little more forgiving, and typically have more padding. If you are skating short track on a Bont club boots, the jet will feel more/less the same, just with a slightly short cuff, and a bit more padding.

You can easily use a Bont boot (inline or ice for either ice or inline as the top cuffs do not vary that significantly when comparing entry level models like the jet/patriot-c boots). The mountings can cause a bit of compatibility issues. With inline 195mm separations there are very few blades that will accommodate that spacing, all else is std 165mm. That said, inline had moved to 195mm mounting for some time so finding compatible larger wheel frame options with 165mm mounting is also very limited. So, in these scenarios, one has to pick their battles (or preference if you will) re: which sport takes priority, ice or inline. But both can be achieved using 1 boot swapping out blades or inline frame & wheels. Many start down this road (in hopes to save a little $) then find out soon enough it is easier having the 2 separate skates to use for each receptive sport.

If you re using a K2 rad, and also doing short track, you're ready for a low cut inline boot. Ice is far more demanding than inline, in respect to technical ability, I suspect you will find the transition should be fairly easy.
The ice team with which I recently began skating supplies Bont Patriots as loaners. They have zero padding and seem to consist of 100% fiberglass. They also seem to be slightly higher than an inline Jet. They are a bit uncomfortable, but perhaps that is because they haven't been molded to my feet. (Nor could I do that since they are owned by the team). Really, they aren't bad, and in fact they seem to have more support than my Radicals since they are much more stiff.

In some ways, I feel at home on the ice, probably because I grew up near lakes and ponds which froze over. A sharpened skate blade on ice seems to have more friction than inline wheels on pavement.

The short track training helps hone skills, especially turning. However, I wish we had long track opportunities here since I would prefer to skate more straight distance. If I bought a blade, I am not sure if I would want a short track one with its bend, since I would enjoy skating on frozen ponds more than the track. The curved blade wouldn't be desirable there.
LaterSkater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 1st, 2015, 06:43 PM   #22
ajasen
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Queens, NY
Posts: 143
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaterSkater View Post
That's amazing that you skated 100 km one week after you received your Jets. Were you skating on other speed skates before buying them?
Yes, it was my 3rd pair of speedskates. I'd been training on fiberglass skates that were starting to feel very loose, so the Jets really helped.
__________________
Bont Jet 3pt Alu 4x100 // Luigino Bolt + Bont 3pf 6061 4x105
ajasen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2015, 02:06 AM   #23
theDonnybrook
Just trying to keep up
 
theDonnybrook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Schaumburg, Illinois
Posts: 2,008
Default

Too-big-boots can be a blessing an a curse. Blessing in that they a great for building ankle strength quickly, curse in that they are too sloppy for more advanced technique, like the double push. You will certainly learn to find your edges, though.

I agree with the earlier comments concerning using the same boot for inline and ice. Once you get those frames right you won't want to change them, regardless of discipline.

As for ice boots, Bont Patriots run around $300 for short track with blades and the LT Jets are solid boots for around the same price point. The fixed blade that you can get with the LT Jets is less than desirable, but good for learning technique. i used to have ready access to a 400m outdoor oval. Unfortunately, that time has passed. Hoping to get to Milwaukee at least once this year, though.

I have a long road back to my 2014 PR at Apostle. Maybe I can get back on the horse for the return of the Roller Dome Marathon in 2017...
__________________
2012 Bont Z, 3PF 7050, ILQ9 Pro, Matter G13 110mm F1
inlinepaceline.wordpress.com
theDonnybrook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2015, 02:58 AM   #24
shesk8
Senior Member
 
shesk8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA
Posts: 1,040
Default

Later, the newer Bont jets (inline) are definitely lower cuffed than Patriot ice ST boots. In past the older inline jet was very close to ST boot cuff height.

The padding in the patriot is on par with all Bont ice boots, and to skaters not knowing speed boots, it seems like very little, but is more padded than most speed boot brands. Their inline boot offers very slight increased padding. But nothing like the padded liner of a Rad 100 for example.

For outdoor natural ice and pond skating, you want t o be sure you get a fixed blade that has a rounded front end. It's easy to dig into the ice with a squared nose end of a std ST blade. You'll see many outdoor ice speed blades has a gradual roundness to them - designed to help you float over uneven areas/cracks. One can just as easily grind the nose end of an ST blade for outdoors, too. But, for indoor rink skating, the std nose on the ST blade is typical.

Not sure the friction you feel on ice, may just be the hard ice causes chatter, or the ice is getting pretty chewed up. inline can feel 'smoother', due to softness of wheels, but the urethane wheels will cause one to slough off speed quicker in just gliding phase, due road surface friction. Whereas on ice you ought to be able to hold a nice longer glide.
__________________
From Salt Lake City where ice meets inline...
Email: sales@theskatenowshop.com
www.theskatenowshop.com
shesk8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2015, 03:16 AM   #25
LaterSkater
Junior Member
 
LaterSkater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by shesk8 View Post
Not sure the friction you feel on ice, may just be the hard ice causes chatter, or the ice is getting pretty chewed up. inline can feel 'smoother', due to softness of wheels, but the urethane wheels will cause one to slough off speed quicker in just gliding phase, due road surface friction. Whereas on ice you ought to be able to hold a nice longer glide.
I used the wrong word. More friction on roads, but a better bite (with the blade) and longer glide on ice. Maybe, it's just me.

Thanks for the recommendation about the rounded blade for skating on natural ice. Those lakes can become quite bumpy, especially after a snow.
LaterSkater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 2nd, 2015, 11:53 PM   #26
matguy
Senior Member
 
matguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by theDonnybrook View Post
Too-big-boots can be a blessing an a curse. Blessing in that they a great for building ankle strength quickly, curse in that they are too sloppy for more advanced technique, like the double push. You will certainly learn to find your edges, though.
Interestingly enough, the first thing Chad Hedrick has everyone do, in his clinics, is to loosen your skates.
__________________
Custom Bont Z Ion Vanquish 4x110 WRW Indoor Truth or Game Changers CEO Swiss
matguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2015, 03:12 AM   #27
LaterSkater
Junior Member
 
LaterSkater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by matguy View Post
Interestingly enough, the first thing Chad Hedrick has everyone do, in his clinics, is to loosen your skates.
Similar to the trend in running shoes, perhaps we need a minimalist skate such as this one:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4n...ew?usp=sharing
LaterSkater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 3rd, 2015, 06:02 AM   #28
cass38a
Senior Member
 
cass38a's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Newcastle NSW, Australia
Posts: 3,652
Default

Skating with the laces undone is an old training method to get comfortable in your skates and use your edges. It's always a good idea to do warm ups and at least some of your drills with the laces undone.

This is only for training, when racing and training hard you need your feet locked in and as little movement as possible between the frame and your ankle.
cass38a is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2015, 04:00 AM   #29
LaterSkater
Junior Member
 
LaterSkater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 16
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by cass38a View Post
Skating with the laces undone is an old training method to get comfortable in your skates and use your edges. It's always a good idea to do warm ups and at least some of your drills with the laces undone.

This is only for training, when racing and training hard you need your feet locked in and as little movement as possible between the frame and your ankle.
I can totally appreciate the point of that exercise. Undoing the laces could also help to set the proper frame position.

In my previous post, I was trying to inject a bit of humor into the conversation.
LaterSkater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2015, 02:25 PM   #30
evilzzz
Senior Member
 
evilzzz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: London UK
Posts: 858
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaterSkater View Post
Similar to the trend in running shoes, perhaps we need a minimalist skate such as this one:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4n...ew?usp=sharing
But everyone's on Hoka's now.. so maybe we need aggressive skate with a 4x110.
__________________
http://enduranceskating.com
evilzzz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 4th, 2015, 06:32 PM   #31
matguy
Senior Member
 
matguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Seattle-ish
Posts: 653
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by evilzzz View Post
But everyone's on Hoka's now.. so maybe we need aggressive skate with a 4x110.
Well, Richard Nett is putting the Cado 3x125 (Dual Box and Transformer) frames on tall Seba boots. The Transformer obviously takes 4x110, too, but you could easily put other 4x110 frames on the Seba boots with 195mm spacing.
__________________
Custom Bont Z Ion Vanquish 4x110 WRW Indoor Truth or Game Changers CEO Swiss
matguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 6th, 2015, 08:34 PM   #32
shesk8
Senior Member
 
shesk8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salt Lake City, UT USA
Posts: 1,040
Default

Evilzzz. Ha, I had a chance to try the Hoka's at a huge outdoor sports expo here... like running on giant marshmallows... and, not for me. I will take my minimalistic Karhu's any day of the week!

I have to say watching industry try to figure what the next inventive product they will bring to market will be is a bit like watching people concoct dessert at Cold Stone Creamery. There are oodles of choices, too many. So many in fact that people come up with some nasty combinations that maybe sound good, but end result they taste terrible.

As of late, industry seems compelled to push for bigger & better, and more flavors, when bigger and more varied flavors may not necessarily be so much better. Rather, I'd prefer to see a fine-tuning of products quality, design, and functionality versus the perpetual dilution of choices we see in products currently, obviously some more so than others, and to some these comments do not necessarily apply. I wont delve deeper...but, granted having a seemingly endless palette of color choices is nice, but let's not forget the base products beneath those outer skins.
__________________
From Salt Lake City where ice meets inline...
Email: sales@theskatenowshop.com
www.theskatenowshop.com
shesk8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 7th, 2015, 06:02 AM   #33
LaterSkater
Junior Member
 
LaterSkater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 16
Default

Hookah clog skates! Be the first one on your block to own a pair!!
http://everycloghasitsday.typepad.co...c59478b970c-pi

I agree with shesk8 that we would all benefit from more focus on quality instead of quantity. Actually, that philosophy can apply to almost anything. Instead, we are swamped with marketing hype driven by a push for short-term profit. They hope to keep selling us new trends so that we continually update our possessions in order to stay in line with the latest fashion.

I know a bit more about running than skating, so I'll give you my take on the trend in shoes. A few of us transitioned gradually to minimal shoes. It requires a conscious change in running form, which doesn't happen overnight. We noticed that our joint pain, especially knee issues, improved significantly. Others simply followed the trend and let the wave carry them while transitioning much too quickly. They experienced new injuries. Then, Hokas were released and they were able to capture some of the people who had bad experiences with minimal shoes. Hence, running shoes swung from one extreme to another. Now, many more people have joined the platform shoe bandwagon, deciding to run on marshmallows because that's what everyone else is doing. Time will tell how it affects the injury rate of runners. In the meantime, the profits are rolling in for the marshmallow makers.
LaterSkater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2015, 04:00 AM   #34
onurleft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 139
Default

I went from a thin sole minimalist to marshmallow and back to slightly more cushion minimalist:
Merell trail glove's to Salomon S-Lab Sense Ultra's and S-Lab Fellcross to Topo athletic to Hoka One One Stinson ATR marshmallow shoes and back to Topo since the plastic heel stabilizer feature of my Hoka Stinson ATR trail running shoes nailed my ankle bone when the shoe twisted outward on a bad shifty rock landing. No give in the shoe for it to flex and or compress and my ankle bone took the brunt of it! I'll never buy that model again, may try another model if I can tolerate Hoka's toe shape now that I'm back in a comfortable minimalist that allows for toe splay -
http://fellrnr.com/wiki/File:HokaOrAltra.png (btw, Altra's fit me like a bucket)
Fwiw, you can see the Black Plastic heel counter in the pic, it has Hoka One One printed on it -
http://www.hokaoneone.com/mens-trail...gid=mens-trail

How this relates to Inline's and 3x125's I've no idea unless you're equating minimalist running shoes with a low deck height of the old Miller Sport 4x80mm extended frame to the insane height of 3x125 for ankle health.

That said, I'll still try 3x125 in hopes those 125mm wheels handle deteriorating road surfaces better then the 110mm wheels I'm on.
onurleft is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 9th, 2015, 04:18 AM   #35
LaterSkater
Junior Member
 
LaterSkater's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Lakewood, Colorado
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by onurleft View Post
I went from a thin sole minimalist to marshmallow and back to slightly more cushion.
I'll never buy that model again, may try another model if I can tolerate Hoka's toe shape now that I'm back in a comfortable minimalist that allows for toe splay -
http://fellrnr.com/wiki/File:HokaOrAltra.png (btw, Altra's fit me like a bucket)

How this relates to Inline's and 3x125's I've no idea unless you're equating minimalist running shoes with a low deck height of the old Miller Sport 4x80mm extended frame to the insane height of 3x125 for ankle health.

That said, I'll still try 3x125 in hopes those 125mm wheels handle deteriorating road surfaces better then the 110mm wheels I'm on.
I love that depiction of the Altra vs the Hoka. Who would have a foot shaped to fit such a shoe?

My discussion of running shoes was totally off the topic of skating, except as an illustration of how marketing can taint our decisions.

Have fun with your 125's. They will probably help you to build even more ankle strength, and roll over those bumps on the road. This time of the year, I am certainly encountering many speed bumps with plentiful piles of leaves and twigs.
LaterSkater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 11th, 2015, 04:56 AM   #36
onurleft
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 139
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by LaterSkater View Post
I love that depiction of the Altra vs the Hoka. Who would have a foot shaped to fit such a shoe?

My discussion of running shoes was totally off the topic of skating, except as an illustration of how marketing can taint our decisions.

Have fun with your 125's. They will probably help you to build even more ankle strength, and roll over those bumps on the road. This time of the year, I am certainly encountering many speed bumps with plentiful piles of leaves and twigs.
Does seem like a catch 22, dammed if you do dammed if you don't
onurleft is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
boot, change, jet, material, version

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 04:43 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.