S k a t e L o g     F o r u m

Closed in June of 2020

SKATELOG DOT COM: Web Site | Blog | Facebook |    


Home

*** The SkateLog Forum Has Been Replaced by SkateDebate Dot Com ***

FROM SKATELOG FORUM HOST KATHIE FRY IN MARCH OF 2020:
This announcement is to let everyone know that after hosting the SkateLog Forum and its predecessors for nearly 20 years, I have decided it is time to permanently turn the forum over to a new owner and administrator. I cannot think of anyone more suitable to take on that role than my SkateLog forum co-host, Florida skater Jessica Wright. I am pleased to announce that Jessica has agreed to establish and host a brand new skating forum, configured like the SkateLog Forum, but with a new name and a new Web Site. This new forum is 100% owned and operated by Jessica.

NEW FORUM NAME: SkateDebate Forum
NEW WEB SITE: SkateDebate.com
NEW OWNER AND ADMINISTRATOR: Jessica Wright
REGISTER IN JESSICA'S FORUM: Create a SkateDebate Forum User Name


Go Back   SkateLog Forum > General Interest Skating Forums > Main Skating Forum
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Main Skating Forum General discussions about all types of skating, including how to skate, places to skate, skating events, skating equipment, and any topic that does not fall under one of our other skating forums.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old February 24th, 2020, 04:01 PM   #41
FlailingLlama
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
To get rid of that wobble you need practice, and better gear does help.

You could soup up that skate with delrin pivot cups and the adjustable avanti trucks too. They drop right in.

I prefer that setup with undersized washers and greased action while using a double purple sg super cushion setup.

Honestly I dont mess with traditional kingpins much tho. I'm into Arius plates. Way better for what I like and want from a plate.

Your stock setup is a rubber bushed pivot and it has a good bit of wiggle. So getting the adjustable trucks would really help there. When I get back home I'll see what you can do about cushion options outside of the stock ones or SG supers. Super cushions are 15/16ths OD, so you might need a 1 inch OD cushion to help that. Possibly a proline cushion may work. Ill look into it for ya, I got spare parts.
Thanks. I just got some flat washers and grease. Ill be keeping the red cushions in for todays practice, so I can see what change the washers made.

Just so you know, I practice pivots, basic jumps, spins (riding all combination of truck position on the floor) other dance moves, as well as speed. I want to make sure your recommendations are applicable. I dont know that stuff myself.

Are you talking about the white avanti trucks on the sure grip website? https://www.suregrip.com/product-p/pa516taa.htm

And by delrin pivot cups, do you mean https://www.suregrip.com/product-p/in305d.htm
FlailingLlama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2020, 04:06 PM   #42
FlailingLlama
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
what I like to do for a higher performance modificstion to a cheap skate is unmount the plate, sand and prep the sole of the boot and the back of the plate. Then get the correct bolt lengths and Tee nuts to reattach. Before recounting the parts I put shoegoo on the length of the plate and where the plate attaches to the boot. If you do it right, the bond is pretty strong but can still be pryd off should you need to remove the plate. I dont do it to think that glue will hold the plates I do it do greatly reduce plate deflection.

The Tee nuts will have a larger footprint inside the boots too and be significantly better than the stock hardware.
What exactly are you doing and using when you "sand and prep the sole of the boot"

Will I be able to correct the position of the plates? How one is crookedly mounted? Or do I have to reuse the holes in the boot?
FlailingLlama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2020, 04:44 PM   #43
FlailingLlama
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 36
Default

McMaster-Carr parts list for skate plate mounting (sure grip fame size 10 boot and rock plate)

316 Stainless Steel Button Head Hex Drive Screw
Super-Corrosion-Resistant, 10-32 Thread Size, 5/8" Long
98164A180


316 Stainless Steel Button Head Hex Drive Screw
10-32 Thread, 1-3/4" Long
98164A662


Tee Nut Insert for Wood
316 Stainless Steel, 10-32 Thread Size, 0.315" Installed Length
90973A101


Drilled out old, soft mounting fasteners with a 3/16 bit, through the top. Pulled them out through the bottom.

Using Shoe Goo on the plate and bottom of boot, sanding boot and plate first. Sets surprisingly fast, even in 30*F temperatures.

Button head machine screws need an allen key to tighten, probably an imperial size, as my 3mm key was slightly too small.

Waiting 30 hours to cure.

Last edited by FlailingLlama; February 26th, 2020 at 07:22 PM.
FlailingLlama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2020, 06:00 PM   #44
fierocious1
Senior Member
 
fierocious1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
Somewhat. I've had 97A RBT'S and they are not as fast as 95A Royal Assassins. They are also heavier, they also dont last near as long. And of course the assassins far out grip the RBT'S.

The only down side? Micro bearings. They are not as robust as 608/627, and less available. I would say it's harder to get good ones, but that's all skate bearings anymore. So much Chinese crap. Not that a good bearing cant come from China, I've had a wonderful set of 688s that were made in China, but many bearings are lacking quality control.
Not ashamed to say I run cheaper bearings. They work, but use grease or the grease that they were assembled with. I get great life with no maintenance at all out of no maintenance bearings. I'm sure china bearings make up most of what I have been running for years.
fierocious1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2020, 06:39 PM   #45
BigFoot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: So Cal
Posts: 131
Default

I just did a weight comparison between a steel bearing and a full ceramic (Bones Reds vs Acer, to be exact). It was 11.3 gm vs 5.3 gm. For quad skaters (x16 bearings) going full ceramic would be a weight savings of 3.5 oz., 6.4 oz - 2.9 oz. For reference, 1 oz is the weight of 5 quarters. This would mean a total weight difference of 17.5 quarters. So is this significant? You decide.

For me, and prolly some speed and marathon skaters, the answer would be “yes.” For causal, dance, or fitness peeps, the answer would be, “no.” Fitness freaks might like extra weight because it would help strengthen the mussels in their stems. They may even like to tie lead weights on their boots to further blast their legs. Whew, makes me sweat to think about that. But again, for me: < = better. For that reason, I skate low-top boots, no toe stop, nylon axel nuts, and magnesium plates. Less is more.

A few other thoughts…

Yeah “Silky” was a strange way to describe the feel of a full ceramic bearing, but I gave it a lot of thought and that was the best I could come up with. Describing feelings is hard. To validate this would take a panel of skaters, although scientific testing for bearing resistance and vibration might help. Anyway, ceramics are def a different feel than steel. To me they feel nicer…a lot nicer.

OK, so with the advent of long wearing full ceramic bearings, why not double seal them and offer permanently lubricated, no-maintenance, “lubed-for-life bearings? They are out there for other applications. This would also be good for outdoor skaters who roll through dusty, sandy, muddy, dirty, awful conditions. Let me give you a personal example.

A few months ago I destroyed a $125 set of hybrid ceramic bearings after a pretty girl asked me to take her picture in front of the Venice Beach Public Art Walls. The walls are located in beach sand and I was skating at the time. Somehow I forgot all about wearing skates and just followed her out there, sinking above my axles in sand the whole time. It was a long walk, too, and she needed pictures from different angles. Although my bearings were sealed, apparently they are not designed for sand surfing.

I suppose that a close-tolerance double seal bearing might impose some drag on the spin, but by how much? A small amount of drag may offset the hassle of cleaning and lubricating. And I know that nothing lasts forever. Even “permanently lubricated” bearing have a set life span. I would be happy if it would last for, say, three years. Even my greased, hybrid bearings last for two years, unless I go sand skating.
BigFoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2020, 07:04 PM   #46
FlailingLlama
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFoot View Post
Yeah “Silky” was a strange way to describe the feel of a full ceramic bearing, but I gave it a lot of thought and that was the best I could come up with. Describing feelings is hard. To validate this would take a panel of skaters, although scientific testing for bearing resistance and vibration might help. Anyway, ceramics are def a different feel than steel. To me they feel nicer…a lot nicer.


OK, so with the advent of long wearing full ceramic bearings, why not double seal them and offer permanently lubricated, no-maintenance, “lubed-for-life bearings? They are out there for other applications. This would also be good for outdoor skaters who roll through dusty, sandy, muddy, dirty, awful conditions. Let me give you a personal example.

A few months ago I destroyed a $125 set of hybrid ceramic bearings after a pretty girl asked me to take her picture in front of the Venice Beach Public Art Walls. The walls are located in beach sand and I was skating at the time. Somehow I forgot all about wearing skates and just followed her out there, sinking above my axles in sand the whole time. It was a long walk, too, and she needed pictures from different angles. Although my bearings were sealed, apparently they are not designed for sand surfing.

I suppose that a close-tolerance double seal bearing might impose some drag on the spin, but by how much? A small amount of drag may offset the hassle of cleaning and lubricating. And I know that nothing lasts forever. Even “permanently lubricated” bearing have a set life span. I would be happy if it would last for, say, three years. Even my greased, hybrid bearings last for two years, unless I go sand skating.
But how do you know what you felt was due to the ceramic, and not race clearances, or placebo? (you don't) I did the same coast down test with the same bearings, steel balls vs grade 5 ceramic balls, zero difference. Couldn't feel a difference either. Tried one skate with steel, one skate ceramic, and also had my sister install two wheels (on the same axle) with ceramic on a random axle, also couldn't tell at all.

I've disassembled some nicer bearings, and steel or ceramic, if the races are well polished, and the tolerances are just loose enough for no resistance, that's a smooth bearing.

They do make completely sealed bearings, but they are not for skate applications. I looked into a permanently sealed bearing for skate, but due to all the debris and variables it still ends up needing maintenance, and then you have a much more difficult set of shields to pop off.

I also look at it this way... 1 hour (i'm getting faster at it) of popping shields off, soaking in ultrasonic denatured alcohol bath, and relubing every month or so is worth having smooth fast bearings all the hours I do skate.
FlailingLlama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2020, 07:58 PM   #47
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailingLlama View Post
What exactly are you doing and using when you "sand and prep the sole of the boot"

Will I be able to correct the position of the plates? How one is crookedly mounted? Or do I have to reuse the holes in the boot?
I simply use some 220 grit to roughen the surfaces, they kinda get a grayish look, and then clean with acetone. When applying glue the goal would be to really press it into the surface as you wipe it across. I usually put a decent blob down then push it along trying to keep from too much back and forth motion. I dont want to aerate the adhesive.

If you want to "fix" your mount , remount it first, skate it. See if you like the changes. You can fill the old holes and redrill.

After you're satisfied, glue the plate down for a near aluminum feel.

And to the links you posted, yes, and yes.
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 24th, 2020, 10:51 PM   #48
BigFoot
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: So Cal
Posts: 131
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailingLlama View Post
But how do you know what you felt was due to the ceramic, and not race clearances, or placebo?
…Just occurred to me: is this a First World Problem or what?

The Placebo Effect works both ways. How do you know what you DID NOT feel was due to your pre-conceived beliefs? You don’t. If you were skeptical, indifferent, or determined to find no difference between ceramic and steel then - surprise! - it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. That’s one of the reason that bearing discussions are such a hot topic. Opinions are all over the place, just look at the above posts. One thing that I hope we could all agree on is that bearing choice has no relation to the amount of fun you have. It seems like I had a ton o’ fun wearing cheap, crappy, loose balls bearing, clamp-on metal skates when I was seven-years-old.

I’m sticking to my opinion, tho. I have a little bit of science on my side, too. There is no disputing the fact that ceramic bearings smoother and have less resistance than steel. And beyond that, ceramic and steel are two different materials with different properties, and yes, with different “feels.” Ceramic has a different feel under my feet than steel does. To me it’s silkier, nicer, different. It is hard to explain. I put full ceramic bearings in my bicycle wheels and could not tell any difference. Having a more direct contact with your feet may make a difference. I also read that delrin, the extremely hard, durable plastic used in longboard slide pucks, is also used in ball bearings. No doubt delrin bearings have yet another “feel” altogether. I believe they much softer than steel or ceramic, and maybe that is a good thing. Could a softer material actually be smoother and last longer? Hmmm. Testing, we need some testing.

Sounds like you’ve perfected the re-lube process. One hour is pretty quick. My best time is two hours. Unfortunately I have some perfectionist tendencies that slow me down. For many years I enjoyed the cleaning and lubing job. Not so much now. I just as soon skip it.
BigFoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 25th, 2020, 04:34 AM   #49
FlailingLlama
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigFoot View Post
…Just occurred to me: is this a First World Problem or what?

The Placebo Effect works both ways. How do you know what you DID NOT feel was due to your pre-conceived beliefs? You don’t. If you were skeptical, indifferent, or determined to find no difference between ceramic and steel then - surprise! - it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy. That’s one of the reason that bearing discussions are such a hot topic. Opinions are all over the place, just look at the above posts. One thing that I hope we could all agree on is that bearing choice has no relation to the amount of fun you have. It seems like I had a ton o’ fun wearing cheap, crappy, loose balls bearing, clamp-on metal skates when I was seven-years-old.

I’m sticking to my opinion, tho. I have a little bit of science on my side, too. There is no disputing the fact that ceramic bearings smoother and have less resistance than steel. And beyond that, ceramic and steel are two different materials with different properties, and yes, with different “feels.” Ceramic has a different feel under my feet than steel does. To me it’s silkier, nicer, different. It is hard to explain. I put full ceramic bearings in my bicycle wheels and could not tell any difference. Having a more direct contact with your feet may make a difference. I also read that delrin, the extremely hard, durable plastic used in longboard slide pucks, is also used in ball bearings. No doubt delrin bearings have yet another “feel” altogether. I believe they much softer than steel or ceramic, and maybe that is a good thing. Could a softer material actually be smoother and last longer? Hmmm. Testing, we need some testing.

Sounds like you’ve perfected the re-lube process. One hour is pretty quick. My best time is two hours. Unfortunately I have some perfectionist tendencies that slow me down. For many years I enjoyed the cleaning and lubing job. Not so much now. I just as soon skip it.

You are right, that's why I tried my best to have some blind testing. I actually wanted to feel a difference, and wanted the coast down to improve with the 25 dollars I spent (for 200 grade 5 ceramic balls) and three hours I spent replacing all the balls. Ended up all testing within human error.

I did enjoy the process, and I do enjoy using bearings that I sort of put together myself. I take pride in that, and it adds to my skating experience.

Sorry I sounded sort of matter of fact in my last post, didn't mean to sound so snooty

There is no disputing the molecular surface difference, but whether it makes a performance difference I have yet to observe or measure. I also think there might not be a longevity difference either, at least comparing correctly maintained bearings.

Leaving a bearing alone, never taking it apart, never cleaning it, never relubing, really abusing it, that's where the steel bearing probably loses to ceramic (hybrid at least) as it won't erode as fast with contaminants, and won't reach as high of temperatures.

You feel the differences, I don't. Perhaps part of it is I'm just learning how to skate, and I can't feel the fine tuning stuff yet.

I don't use grease in my bearings, just nano oil (5 weight) so the bearings don't take long in the ultrasonic bath. When I first cleaned a set of bearings, they had thick grease packed in between all the balls, and holy crap I spend all gd day with a toothbrush and denatured alcohol. If I open up a bearing and it has grease in it... its staying! I'm not cleaning them.

And yes! skating is fun, talking about skating is fun, learning about skates is fun, the culture around skating is so interesting... So glad skating is a part of me now! (better late than never!)
FlailingLlama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2020, 12:23 AM   #50
fierocious1
Senior Member
 
fierocious1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailingLlama View Post
You are right, that's why I tried my best to have some blind testing. I actually wanted to feel a difference, and wanted the coast down to improve with the 25 dollars I spent (for 200 grade 5 ceramic balls) and three hours I spent replacing all the balls. Ended up all testing within human error.

I did enjoy the process, and I do enjoy using bearings that I sort of put together myself. I take pride in that, and it adds to my skating experience.

Sorry I sounded sort of matter of fact in my last post, didn't mean to sound so snooty

There is no disputing the molecular surface difference, but whether it makes a performance difference I have yet to observe or measure. I also think there might not be a longevity difference either, at least comparing correctly maintained bearings.

Leaving a bearing alone, never taking it apart, never cleaning it, never relubing, really abusing it, that's where the steel bearing probably loses to ceramic (hybrid at least) as it won't erode as fast with contaminants, and won't reach as high of temperatures.

You feel the differences, I don't. Perhaps part of it is I'm just learning how to skate, and I can't feel the fine tuning stuff yet.

I don't use grease in my bearings, just nano oil (5 weight) so the bearings don't take long in the ultrasonic bath. When I first cleaned a set of bearings, they had thick grease packed in between all the balls, and holy crap I spend all gd day with a toothbrush and denatured alcohol. If I open up a bearing and it has grease in it... its staying! I'm not cleaning them.

And yes! skating is fun, talking about skating is fun, learning about skates is fun, the culture around skating is so interesting... So glad skating is a part of me now! (better late than never!)
I can feel caster adjustments when I'm testing my plates. Only thing I could feel about bearings has been when one is loose/worn out or hear a noisy set or hear a bad bearing. If gains are to be had, multiple sets of wheels to adapt to different floors is definitely number one on the list, unless you skate only one surface/rink.
fierocious1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2020, 10:08 PM   #51
FlailingLlama
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
I simply use some 220 grit to roughen the surfaces, they kinda get a grayish look, and then clean with acetone. When applying glue the goal would be to really press it into the surface as you wipe it across. I usually put a decent blob down then push it along trying to keep from too much back and forth motion. I dont want to aerate the adhesive.

If you want to "fix" your mount , remount it first, skate it. See if you like the changes. You can fill the old holes and redrill.

After you're satisfied, glue the plate down for a near aluminum feel.

And to the links you posted, yes, and yes.
Finished the remount earlier today, going to let the glue cure for another 24 hours.

I decided to keep the mounting holes where they are, I figured I'd probably mess something up drilling new holes.

Now that the plates are tight on the boot, they actually evened out, there isn't as much of a mounting difference between right and left. It kind of surprised me, I stared at the skates for a while, couldn't figure out how the plates moved while keeping the same mounting holes.

MUCH more sturdy fasteners. I'm actually surprised the little spider rivet thingies hold the plate on in the first place. A few were already rusting through!

Thanks for the suggestions so far, I skated on the flat washers and greased trucks, no jump bar... holy moley what a difference. Much more grip and control. Those jump bars were limiting me for sure. Now I can feel the wheels grip much harder, but I was still rolling fast. I had such a good time, and could push myself so much harder. Seriously thank you. Skating and volunteering at the symphony are the only aspects of my life that bring me joy.

I'm also ordering the avanti trucks and delrin inserts to finish off my skate pimping.

Do you use Nano Oil from Christian St Claire in your bearings? I swear the skates are getting faster.
FlailingLlama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2020, 11:31 PM   #52
fierocious1
Senior Member
 
fierocious1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Texas
Posts: 3,335
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailingLlama View Post
Finished the remount earlier today, going to let the glue cure for another 24 hours.

I decided to keep the mounting holes where they are, I figured I'd probably mess something up drilling new holes.

Now that the plates are tight on the boot, they actually evened out, there isn't as much of a mounting difference between right and left. It kind of surprised me, I stared at the skates for a while, couldn't figure out how the plates moved while keeping the same mounting holes.

MUCH more sturdy fasteners. I'm actually surprised the little spider rivet thingies hold the plate on in the first place. A few were already rusting through!

Thanks for the suggestions so far, I skated on the flat washers and greased trucks, no jump bar... holy moley what a difference. Much more grip and control. Those jump bars were limiting me for sure. Now I can feel the wheels grip much harder, but I was still rolling fast. I had such a good time, and could push myself so much harder. Seriously thank you. Skating and volunteering at the symphony are the only aspects of my life that bring me joy.

I'm also ordering the avanti trucks and delrin inserts to finish off my skate pimping.

Do you use Nano Oil from Christian St Claire in your bearings? I swear the skates are getting faster.
The trucks and cups will change your skates drastically. For the good! You will be shocked the first time you skate after the swap.

Last edited by fierocious1; February 27th, 2020 at 12:19 PM.
fierocious1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2020, 12:28 AM   #53
FlailingLlama
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by fierocious1 View Post
The trucks and cups will change your skates dradtically. For the good! You will be shocked the first time you skate after the swap.
I am so excited for tomorrow night's skate! The boot/plate feels so solid. Before I could easily flex them with my hands, now I can't flex them at all with my hand strength.

So why exactly do the trucks and cups help so much? (haven't ordered them yet, maybe I'll get them next week) I was studying the pictures, and they seem to be designed in the same shape as what I currently have, except for that adjustment piece on the trucks.

I was reading that this adjustment doesn't change the stiffness, but rather corrects a response in the truck? To be honest I still am not sure how to set them up. Some people were saying you tighten them to be just enough to keep the truck in place when you lift the skate, others had different ideas.
FlailingLlama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2020, 07:43 AM   #54
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailingLlama View Post
I am so excited for tomorrow night's skate! The boot/plate feels so solid. Before I could easily flex them with my hands, now I can't flex them at all with my hand strength.

So why exactly do the trucks and cups help so much? (haven't ordered them yet, maybe I'll get them next week) I was studying the pictures, and they seem to be designed in the same shape as what I currently have, except for that adjustment piece on the trucks.

Take your skate turn it upside down in your lap, then grab the wheels and try to twist them back and forth like a steering wheel but dont let the plate get any lean. You'll see the rubber bushed pivot give away. The delrin pivot cup and the much more precise adjustable pivot in the avanti truck reduce this play significantly. All turns will become substantially sharper. The plate will feel even more solid than it did before. It will be the final step for your setup aside from really good wheels.

I need to remember to measure my avanti trucks when I get home and make sure the SG cushion fit them the best. There are some other cushion options out there that may be better if the truck yoke has a platform that is a smidge larger than the cushions.


I was reading that this adjustment doesn't change the stiffness, but rather corrects a response in the truck? To be honest I still am not sure how to set them up. Some people were saying you tighten them to be just enough to keep the truck in place when you lift the skate, others had different ideas.

So happy for ya bud. It's really cool when people start to get into the tinkering and learn how it all works.

When you get your avanti setup in. You'll want the truck yoke to be centered on the kingpin. So it's not closer to the pivot, or the center of the plate. The truck yoke should sit perpendicular to the kingpin. The next phase is to make sure the cushion against the baseplate supports the truck yoke at this point. Sometimes they have to be shimmed up in height. Sometimes everything lines up perfectly with just 1 washer under the plate side cushion. You'll just have to see what you end up with there.

The pivot will need to be adjusted so it touches the bottom of the pivot cup. It should hit dead center if everything lines up right. If it is too close to the kingpin, and riding against the wall just add a washer under the cushion. If it is too close to the toestop for instance, you'll want to reduce the height of the plate side stack, that will bring the pivot closer to the kingpin. The only thing the adjustable pivot can do is reach further into the pivot cup.


Edit: keep an eye on your boots, cheaper boots are known to have poor bonding. Essentially the surfaces of the boot and sole are not prepped well when they glue them together, the glue is sometimes brittle, and they dont always use enough of it.

The tighter you lace up the harder you skate, the more the boots quarter panels will pull away from the sole. You can help quell that by putting a light sanding on the seam at the sole and going around where it meets the boot. Clean with acetone, let dry a moment, then smear some shoe goo into that seam like you were caulking a shower. I would do this with the boot laced as tightly as possible so it helps to open up the seam a little.
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2020, 03:30 PM   #55
FlailingLlama
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
So happy for ya bud. It's really cool when people start to get into the tinkering and learn how it all works.

When you get your avanti setup in. You'll want the truck yoke to be centered on the kingpin. So it's not closer to the pivot, or the center of the plate. The truck yoke should sit perpendicular to the kingpin. The next phase is to make sure the cushion against the baseplate supports the truck yoke at this point. Sometimes they have to be shimmed up in height. Sometimes everything lines up perfectly with just 1 washer under the plate side cushion. You'll just have to see what you end up with there.

Great, I have extra washers, the bag I purchased from home depot racing has 25

The pivot will need to be adjusted so it touches the bottom of the pivot cup. It should hit dead center if everything lines up right. If it is too close to the kingpin, and riding against the wall just add a washer under the cushion. If it is too close to the toestop for instance, you'll want to reduce the height of the plate side stack, that will bring the pivot closer to the kingpin. The only thing the adjustable pivot can do is reach further into the pivot cup.


Edit: keep an eye on your boots, cheaper boots are known to have poor bonding. Essentially the surfaces of the boot and sole are not prepped well when they glue them together, the glue is sometimes brittle, and they dont always use enough of it.

You know, I was talking to the owner of one of the main rinks I go to, and he advised (I'm under the impression that everyone in the skate world is like partially right about everything, because of how people just grandfather their techniques over the years) me not to remount the plate and stiffen stuff up, because "when you strengthen one part, the next weakest link breaks" I forgot to ask you about that, good you brought it up.

The tighter you lace up the harder you skate, the more the boots quarter panels will pull away from the sole. You can help quell that by putting a light sanding on the seam at the sole and going around where it meets the boot. Clean with acetone, let dry a moment, then smear some shoe goo into that seam like you were caulking a shower. I would do this with the boot laced as tightly as possible so it helps to open up the seam a little.
Will do that soon. Probably tomorrow, so I can skate tonight!

That rink owner also scoffed at my trucks, and said "that isn't grease, is it?" I said yeah! and I switched out the cupped washers for straight ones for better movement. (he also didn't like the washer thing, he said the cups are there to hold everything together, it was designed that way) He said that he doesn't grease anything except putting a tiny drop of oil on the shaft of the kingpin, because the grease attracts dirt when the spaces between the cushions and washers open up in a turn, and eventually start sandpapering away... I was like, uh, so what? I maintain my equipment, so I would be regreasing every month or so anyways.

I was trying not to roll my eyes.

This is the same guy with 1000 dollar skates that was at full tilt around the rink, and I was like gently coasting in pace with him lol. I wonder why no one would race me?
FlailingLlama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2020, 04:58 PM   #56
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailingLlama View Post
Will do that soon. Probably tomorrow, so I can skate tonight!

That rink owner also scoffed at my trucks, and said "that isn't grease, is it?" I said yeah! and I switched out the cupped washers for straight ones for better movement. (he also didn't like the washer thing, he said the cups are there to hold everything together, it was designed that way) He said that he doesn't grease anything except putting a tiny drop of oil on the shaft of the kingpin, because the grease attracts dirt when the spaces between the cushions and washers open up in a turn, and eventually start sandpapering away... I was like, uh, so what? I maintain my equipment, so I would be regreasing every month or so anyways.

And what do you(or HE I should say lol) think a dry suspension would do? It would wear EVERY time you edge the plate where the cushions slip at all. Which is pretty much every movement you make on a quad skate.

So I guess thegiant hole thru the cushion is not enough to keep the cushion on the plate? Lmao. The whole purpose of a cupped retainer is to envoke a limiting range of motion or tailor ramp up resistance. You can get shallow or deep cups that constrain the cushion to make the plate harder to edge over past a certain point. I prefer to use the hardest cushion that let's me do what I want with ease and still carve deep edges. Which for me is the purple cushion. Its firmness helps reinforce the truck during hard lateral force more than a blue or yellow would, and the undersize washer let's it have room to deflect so I can get a nice deep edge.

I used the same SG blues in my kids avenger for 3+ years. And after like 1000 hours of skating they still looked brand new. The non lubricated sg purples I had in my royals for 8 sessions were silver when I took them apart the other day. Eventually that scuffing destroys cushions.


I was trying not to roll my eyes.

lol

This is the same guy with 1000 dollar skates that was at full tilt around the rink, and I was like gently coasting in pace with him lol. I wonder why no one would race me?
I can usually outrun the inline skaters where ever we go on my quads.(not the speed inlines, unless they just arent a higher caliber skater). Having the correct form(#1 by far), fluid moving equipment and suspension, and ample physical prowess will make ya fast.

Did I mention there are 2 sides to the SG cushions? You want the side with all the ribs to face the truck yoke, and the side with the lettering to face the washer/retainers. The ribs will retain the grease much better.

For the right "tightness" on the kingpin nut, it should be just enough compression where the retainer/washer is still able to be turned by hand without too much trouble. Not much more than that, otherwise it's better to go up in duro on Tue cushions and keep the right pressure.

This works the opposite too, if you loosen to where the trucks are starting to get floppy and things are still too stiff, time to go down in duro and snug things back up, and work your way down until your feet are always happy after a long session. Softer suspensions are easier on the foot structures and muscles by far.

Many of us around here have facebook accounts with pictures on them, or postings showing a modification etc, and there are groups on there to ask question and get answers as well.
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2020, 05:31 PM   #57
FlailingLlama
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 36
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
I can usually outrun the inline skaters where ever we go on my quads.(not the speed inlines, unless they just arent a higher caliber skater). Having the correct form(#1 by far), fluid moving equipment and suspension, and ample physical prowess will make ya fast.

You have any videos of what perfect form on quads is (for speed, at least) I can find a bunch of very in depth technical videos on inline speed, from Pascal Briand and Viktor Thorup, but haven't found the same for quad speed. I don't have the money, or the location to purchase and practice speed inlines. I already go too fast for adult skate sessions to really practice speed, so I happily practice dance moves most of the time.

Did I mention there are 2 sides to the SG cushions? You want the side with all the ribs to face the truck yoke, and the side with the lettering to face the washer/retainers. The ribs will retain the grease much better.

They must have a new molds, my original cushions and the red ones I bought last month don't have ridges, just the "SURE GRIP" indented on one side

For the right "tightness" on the kingpin nut, it should be just enough compression where the retainer/washer is still able to be turned by hand without too much trouble. Not much more than that, otherwise it's better to go up in duro on Tue cushions and keep the right pressure.

This works the opposite too, if you loosen to where the trucks are starting to get floppy and things are still too stiff, time to go down in duro and snug things back up, and work your way down until your feet are always happy after a long session. Softer suspensions are easier on the foot structures and muscles by far.

I didn't know this either, but it sounds like I've instinctively had the trucks adjusted that way. I haven't had foot strain yet, I'm still out of shape, so other parts of my body, and my respiratory endurance fail before my feet.

Many of us around here have facebook accounts with pictures on them, or postings showing a modification etc, and there are groups on there to ask question and get answers as well.
I just liked the Skate Log facebook page, should I post my questions there from now on? Sorry I need things spelled out for me, and I'm not sure what you mean, I hope I'm not bothering you.
FlailingLlama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 27th, 2020, 05:50 PM   #58
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailingLlama View Post
I just liked the Skate Log facebook page, should I post my questions there from now on? Sorry I need things spelled out for me, and I'm not sure what you mean, I hope I'm not bothering you.
Skate addiction is a good page, there are a bunch of pages, but. SA is one of the best.

Theres more responders on FB, but that doesnt always mean the quality of information will also be aplenty . There are others that have good knowledge

FB makes it easier to post/share pictures. Not that it cant be done here, but the interface is easier /faster.
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28th, 2020, 05:22 AM   #59
FlailingLlama
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 36
Default

welp, I shouldnt have messed with a good thing.

Now that my plate doesn't flex, my cushions are much too hard. Also I didn't realise but that plate flex was allowing my boots to not be painful. Now that the flex is gone, my boots are hurting me again. UGH. I don't have the money to buy a comfortable boot, they don't even have padding where I need it unless I buy a figure skating boot from Edea. and it's too stiff for what I want to do. UGH.

Also tore the heels (partially) off both boots. I guess I have to glue that **** back together and hope it holds, and skate with multiple pairs of socks again.

On top of all that, something was wrong with my inner ear, tonight's practice was so bad, I couldn't even practice pivots without getting too dizzy. Even 180's were making me sick. UGH.
FlailingLlama is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 28th, 2020, 09:43 AM   #60
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,423
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlailingLlama View Post
welp, I shouldnt have messed with a good thing.

Now that my plate doesn't flex, my cushions are much too hard. Also I didn't realise but that plate flex was allowing my boots to not be painful. Now that the flex is gone, my boots are hurting me again. UGH. I don't have the money to buy a comfortable boot, they don't even have padding where I need it unless I buy a figure skating boot from Edea. and it's too stiff for what I want to do. UGH.

Also tore the heels (partially) off both boots. I guess I have to glue that **** back together and hope it holds, and skate with multiple pairs of socks again.

On top of all that, something was wrong with my inner ear, tonight's practice was so bad, I couldn't even practice pivots without getting too dizzy. Even 180's were making me sick. UGH.
Didnt you say you were on Red SG Supers before? Those are WAY hard. Yellows are usually the go to or purple at the firmest.

It shouldnt take long for your feet to adjust to the modified setup.

The boots would fail regardless if you fixed up your plate. All the r3/gt50/carrera/rock and other skates have poorly glued soles.

I'd recommend mounting the plate to a comfortable soccer/football/rugby cleat. People do it all the time. Grind the cleats off and learn to mount

Edit.

Here is a small write up I did while fixing an R3.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00000401564970

Here is one I did where I added a strip of canvas to the outside of the boot to reinforce it.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...00000401564970

Glue was smeared on the boot where the canvas was being applied and also on 1 side of the canvas so it could really be bonded into the fibers of the material. The boots surfaces were prepped as well. Then pressed onto the boot like paper mache, laced up tightly and allowed to dry.
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy

Last edited by Mort; February 28th, 2020 at 06:17 PM.
Mort is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.