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Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

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Old December 27th, 2017, 06:46 PM   #41
Sir Aaron
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I can't keep up with the posts!

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Originally Posted by Ancient1 View Post
Merry Christmas Aaron,
I feel for you and you wallet. It's tough enough to pay for your own skates let alone for kids skates. I don't blame you for switching for a lower price.

BTW: You are familiar with skates, so what do you think about my computations for my boot and plate size? When I competed I never considered it. I let the rink handle it. But now I don't trust the people at the rinks in my area to get it right, so I have to depend on myself and input from those in this forum. Thanks.
Merry Christmas to you! Hope you had a good one!.

The plate size is extremely important but the charts are just estimates and guidelines. Different companies have different size charts. Just take a look at the SkatesUS size chart for Edea/Roll Line and the chart from the manufacturer (Roll Line or Edea). They're not the same. And when you get to a bigger foot you get stuck at 180 or 190 in certain frames anyways.

The importance is in the axle difference. That front axle needs to be sitting under the ball of your foot and the back axle should be under your heel. For freestyle, many skaters prefer a slightly longer length so the front axle sits in the front part of the ball of the foot to provide more stability. Whereas the opposite is true for loop skates. There we put a shorter plate/frame to allow for easier time doing loops. For example, my daughter will probably have 150 frame for figures/dance/freestyle skates and a 140 frame for loops.

Having said all that...the biggest factor is your particular comfort with whatever size you are wearing. If you like a shorter plate than what is recommended, then that's what you should wear.


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Originally Posted by Ancient1 View Post
I am set on the Riedell boots. It's set in stone.

But I am not set on the plates. If I can't get a trade up on the Super Deluxe, my plans are still to replace with another Super Deluxe at the correct size. But I might consider Roll-Line plates for freestyle. I could use some input on a few items.

1. Are any of the freestyle plates at a 15 degree kingpin angle?
2. Can anyone describe the feel between Super Deluxe and the freestyle variations of Roll-Line plates?

Since the plates I get are mostly for freestyle I am looking for control vs deep edges. I felt that the advantage plates I had last were great but I always felt like they were not as solid as my Super Deluxe.
3. Do any of the Roll-Line Plates feel solid on leans? I don't want cheap feeling plates.

Thanks
My first Skates were on Snyder Super Deluxe plates. (actually I still have my wife's and mine sitting in the garage. You are welcome to them if they are the correct size). My first set of "competitive" skates were Snyder Advantage plates. Then I transitioned to Roll Line Energy/Giotto. Now I wear Roll Line Dance/Matrix/and Spin plates.

There is a lot that plays into the differences. First of all, the Roll Line plates are much lighter than the Super Deluxe. But the Snyder Advantage is lighter than Roll Line I believe. The difference is noticeable.

The second major factor is cushions. This is what allows you to set your edge or turn more reactively. Harder cushions make you more stable but less reactive. Roll Line has options that are a little easier to make sense of. You can do many more combinations with an Advantage plate with a little customization (I've got a TON of Snyder cushions). But Roll Line's system is easier to navigate. They have rubber and Urethane all of which have different hardness ratings.

The third major factor is the click action system by Roll Line. It makes action adjustment super easy whereas the Super Deluxe is a major PIA. And I mean a major PIA. For this reason alone I would not skate in a super deluxe. It's another reason why I don't particularly want them to switch to Paioli figure plates which come highly recommended by world level coaches. The last thing I really want is an entirely new plate with different tools, cushions, etc.

As for kingpin angles, I believe the Snyder Super Deluxe and Advantage both have 15 degree kingpins as does the Roll Line Giotto/Energy/Matrix. The other Roll line plates have other angles front and back.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient1 View Post
Been doing a little research on Roll-Line vs Snyder.

Between the Energy and Matrix. Not worried about price difference. I am looking for stability. (This is of course if I can't get sure grip to provide a super deluxe plate size upgrade). What I have read is that the energy seems to be as solid feeling as the imperial from Snyder so I suspect it would be as solid or better than the super deluxe.

For those of you who have tried both Snyder and Roll-Line, would you agree with the above?

Connies has both plates and they are approx $550 for Matrix and $500 for Energy. I know I still need wheels, cushions and bearings and toe stop. But if they provide a good solid feel then they will be in my top decision list.

Rick, I am still leaning toward the professional boot but if I get the Roll-Line plates I might consider the 336 Tribute. I am concerned about the tribute as being weak and too flexible, but I am keeping it as a possibility.
The Matrix and Energy plates are identical except for the metal used. Energy is a bit lighter but the Matrix looks nicer (IMO...it is shiny). Both of these will be an improvement over the Super Deluxe.

I've got substantial experience in buying Riedell boots. As I mentioned earlier, my daughter wore these boots. She had the 2010R Imperial for Dance, the 297 for Freestyle, and an ice boot for figures. She loves the 297s. (or loved past tense since she no longer wears them). I got a bit of resistance from her when we switched to Edea. At first I was fine with her wearing Riedell. Whatever she wanted to wear I was fine with. But when I started getting the Edea Cheaper then I forced her to switch. I always thought the 297s were way too soft and I suspect that is why she liked them. They allowed her to be much more flexible in the boot.

Both the 297 and 336 have a "shearling tongue" which is basically lambs wool (I always hated that in my boots). The 336 will be stiffer as it has reinforced quarters. It also has a lace stabilizer bar which keeps the tongue centered on your foot. I found this to be a bigger deal than it would seam. My kids constantly had tongues that would get broken in to one side or another. Except on the skates that had the stabilizer bar.

The 336 will have an extra layer of cork on the sole to absorb impact.

You already know and love the 297 so maybe just stick with that.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient1 View Post
Cool thing on the Energy plate is that my boot size is right in the middle of the 180 plate. That should put my balance spot on. I may have a bit of adjusting to the new plates but thinking about it is bringing me a smile...
Roll Line measures the plates in MM (although on foreign sites you'll always see them in CMs). I don't trust their recommendations too much. They are way to rigid in their formula and you'll notice the low end of the scale doesn't quite match the middle and top end ratios.

The funny thing is I wear an equivalent of a size 12-13 boot (larger size in Roll Line due to toe room) and wear a 180 plate.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient1 View Post
If I use the Super Deluxe, I need some slicker wheels. I will be surprised if I can get a free size upgrade on my super deluxe plates. So it means buying new plates.

The leopard are 99A hardness. The Mustang are 97A. It is important that I get slicker wheels than I have bought in the past.
If you want really slick wheels go to the Fluido in the 49 or 53D or go with the Giotto in 60D. These are the slickest wheels available by Roll Line. Keep in mind they'll all become more slick as you wear them in. At first they'll tend to feel a bit grippy till you were off that initial layer of poly. Except for the Giotto. Those will be slick from the get go.



Quote:
Originally Posted by amohrfeld View Post
1. Don't worry too much about the king pin angle. It is almost meaningless by itself. The overall geometry (angle of rotation) is important. King pin angle plays a part in this geometry but it does not tell the entire story.

2. I just started switching away from Snyder and into Roll Line. The Roll line is lighter and snappy. The Snyder feels sluggish in comparison.

3. Somewhat subjective, but it has just as much to do with the boot. I'm not sure what you mean by cheap feeling in leans. I've improved many plates by replacing cushions. The plastic plates can bend and feel un-precise. But I have found the cushions on the Roll line provide the best of both worlds: solid feel and accuracy. I definitely recommend it over the Snyder. The Roll Line is just more advanced technology. Even the Royal and Advantage are based on the original Snyder design.

By the way, I have all the boots discussed and in your situation I would recommend the 297.

Very sound advice.

I notice a difference between the Energy and the Dance. The Dance is super snappy vs. the Energy. But also cushions make a huge difference.

The plate that hasn't been discussed is the Paioli artistic plates. I suspect a lot of older skaters would really like these frames.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 12:07 AM   #42
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Hi Don,
I could not find anything on Circle K wheels. Also I don't plan on cutting down a boot. Just trying to figure out what will be best for me.

Thanks
Jim


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Originally Posted by emtdpf View Post
Afternoon Jim!

Glad to see that you aregetting serious about coming back in the pool! lol

Couple of things.

297, if you dont want them as tall, just take them to an olde shoe maker and they can cut off the top inch or so..(I had this done to my dance skates)

Outside wheels, not sure if the are still around, but Circle K seemed to be a narrower wheel than the Kryptos... I had both and skated both outside with my speed skates.......(years ago).. but I would say that anything with a very soft durometer should work, maybe even a softer rollerbones? But as Larry mentioned, you better be ready for the jumps, as those softer wheels are not going to be forgiving.

Outside boot.....instead of beating up your new 297, why not go out and get a pair of older hockey boots your size, take the blade off and mount your plate on it...., you can make those boots as tight or as loose as you need, just by lacing them....... again, years ago, I had a pair that I used for everything other than dance / speed. You might be able to go to a hockey shop and see if there are any used there?

Plates...... your choice, what ever makes you happy, but, it sounds like it needs to be a beefier plate.

Maybe Doc has some ideas on outside packages?

My $.02
Don
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Old December 28th, 2017, 12:12 AM   #43
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Hi Aaron,
Yes! I can't even keep up with my own entries, Sheesh!

I am really thinking the Super Deluxe plate. Got email from Jody at Connies and he said that I won't get full exchange but I might get something. He said they would let him know on Friday. So I wait.

I plan on visiting the skate part soon and check it out. Checking my street for road and side walk conditions to skate. I'll go to the rink but only seldom.

I'll make sure the plates are sized correctly and I use the hardest rubber cushions. No urethane for me...

Thanks
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Old December 28th, 2017, 12:44 AM   #44
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Smile Hey Jim, you're still in the game!

Personally Jim, I think you need to buy your "professional" boots. It's seems that same old story comes up time and time again. Everybody wears the 297, so buy a new pair and be done with it. But the plates is a completely, whole different deal.

Everybody wants to help you get a cheap pair or a free pair of Synder Deluxe plates. For you, I highly recommend them. I personally skated on a pair of Synder Imperials, with the hardened king pins and the red cushions 'soft', recently outside. The boots were the Donald Jacksons made for quadruples, but I didn't bother lacing them up and did not lace any of the top eyelets. Just laced the bottom part of the boots. Worked fine for just getting around and rolling very easily down the strand.

The wheels were some red, 62 X 40 "Roller City" outdoor urethane or some other soft compound. I had to change the bearings to 7mm, because they came with the standard 8mm bearings for outside skating. They seem to work perfect, but I have not skated on them hard and I have not done spins or jumps on them. Just skated on the strand very easily and they rolled very well!


Jim the idea is to get into a pair of skates dirt cheap or as cheaply as you can. Come the day you need the best equipment so be it, but you don't need them. Like I said a guy that kills me a Nationals wears Synder Imperials and Reidell Gold Star boots! Enough said and good luck.

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Old December 28th, 2017, 12:52 AM   #45
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Larry,
Very practical advice. Thanks.

Jim
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Old December 28th, 2017, 11:12 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ancient1 View Post
Hi Aaron,
Yes! I can't even keep up with my own entries, Sheesh!

I am really thinking the Super Deluxe plate. Got email from Jody at Connies and he said that I won't get full exchange but I might get something. He said they would let him know on Friday. So I wait.

I plan on visiting the skate part soon and check it out. Checking my street for road and side walk conditions to skate. I'll go to the rink but only seldom.

I'll make sure the plates are sized correctly and I use the hardest rubber cushions. No urethane for me...

Thanks
Skate parks arenít too bad. Basketball pads grip a bit too much. Ok to do a little jump but not really spin. Iíve tried it all. Nothing compares to rink time for dance.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 05:04 PM   #47
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Skate parks arenít too bad. Basketball pads grip a bit too much. Ok to do a little jump but not really spin. Iíve tried it all. Nothing compares to rink time for dance.
When my rink goes out of business Iíll probably be stuck skating dance in a parking lot, LOL. Hey, if the Italians can do it so can we.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 05:06 PM   #48
Sir Aaron
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Originally Posted by Ancient1 View Post
Hi Aaron,
Yes! I can't even keep up with my own entries, Sheesh!

I am really thinking the Super Deluxe plate. Got email from Jody at Connies and he said that I won't get full exchange but I might get something. He said they would let him know on Friday. So I wait.

I plan on visiting the skate part soon and check it out. Checking my street for road and side walk conditions to skate. I'll go to the rink but only seldom.

I'll make sure the plates are sized correctly and I use the hardest rubber cushions. No urethane for me...

Thanks
I looked at my plates in the garage. Size 7 and 13. Too bad. I would have given them to you.
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Old December 28th, 2017, 06:03 PM   #49
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Aaron,
That was too kind of you. Thanks.

I just received and Email from Jody at Connies. Seems Sure Grip will not honor the life time level upgrade on Snyder plates. Good Job Sure Grip... But I half expected it. I still love the super deluxe. Just not a fan of Sure Grip.



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I looked at my plates in the garage. Size 7 and 13. Too bad. I would have given them to you.
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Old December 29th, 2017, 11:36 AM   #50
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Aaron,
That was too kind of you. Thanks.

I just received and Email from Jody at Connies. Seems Sure Grip will not honor the life time level upgrade on Snyder plates. Good Job Sure Grip... But I half expected it. I still love the super deluxe. Just not a fan of Sure Grip.
that's what I thought happened when sure grip took over,,,sorry,,,still I think your 10 might be ok, check it against the boot when u get it
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Old December 29th, 2017, 02:06 PM   #51
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Ok, will do. Nothing to lose for sure.

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that's what I thought happened when sure grip took over,,,sorry,,,still I think your 10 might be ok, check it against the boot when u get it
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