S k a t e L o g     F o r u m
Inline Skating and Quad Roller Skating
Forum Hosts: Jessica Wright | Kathie Fry

FOLLOW US: Our Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Email    


Home - Forum Index - Africa Skating - Asia Skating - Europe Skating - Oceania Skating - Pan America Skating - Roller_Rinks - Friend the SkateLog Forum in Facebook - SkateLog Forum on Facebook

Forum Administrators: Jessica Wright and Kathie Fry | Email Us
Access code for buying and selling subforums: "skates"
How To Get a User Account and Posting Privileges in the SkateLog Forum
Use Google to Search the SkateLog Forum

Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Artistic Skating Forum
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old July 26th, 2018, 07:02 AM   #1
Oicusk82huh
Senior Member
 
Oicusk82huh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Highland NY
Posts: 401
Default Roller Vs Ice Skating Spins

On ice skates when you learn to spin, you only learn to spin in one direction. It's because when you learn how to jump, you're going to rotate in that same direction.

So if you spin on your left foot and your hands are dials on the clock, you'd spin counter clockwise. Then if you spin on your right foot, you're still going to spin counter clockwise. They would discourage you from learning a good clockwise spin, if it's not your strong side/jumping side.

Is it the same in artistic roller skating? Do you guys spin only in one direction, and is it for the same reason? Thanks in advance.
Oicusk82huh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2018, 07:48 AM   #2
Ancient1
Senior Member
 
Ancient1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tallahassee, Fl.
Posts: 1,897
Default

The rotational direction of a spin is not a rule. It is usually easier for a RIGHT HANDED skater to spin counter clockwise and jump counter clockwise and for LEFT HANDED skater to jump and spin clockwise. Then there are some that can do both equally well.

I think it has more to do with getting the feel for a lean and rotation more than anything else. Learning both counter clockwise and clockwise can confuse the brain, especially at the beginning of the learning process. BUT IT IS NOT A HARD AND FAST RULE.

I hope that helps.
__________________
Jim (The Ancient One)
Ancient1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 26th, 2018, 10:46 AM   #3
rwsz
Senior Member
 
rwsz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: mass
Posts: 6,812
Default

most art skaters spin in one direction depending on is they jump and spin righty or lefty, usually spin in the same direction. I seen a few do spins in either direction or change direction but not very often.
__________________
Ciao Rick
rwsz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 27th, 2018, 04:44 PM   #4
kcire10
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 33
Default

These are the spins I can do:

1. heel-toe spins in CW and CCW direction
2. heel-heel spins in CW and CCW direction
3. two-foot toe spins in CW and CCW direction
4. one-foot toe spins on my left foot in CCW direction
5. one-foot, flat foot spins on my left foot in CCW direction
6. one-foot, flat foot spins on my right foot in CW direction.
7. two-foot crouched spins in CW and CCW direction

When I do jumps, I rotate in the CW direction. I'm ambidextrous so I tend to be all over the place

I feel learning to spin in both directions tend to help your balance, but I'm neither an artistic skater nor an ice skater.
kcire10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2018, 01:26 AM   #5
larryoracing
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Lomita, Ca, work in El Segundo, CA
Posts: 973
Smile Good question.....?????? hmmm let's think about this.

Would they discourage you from learning a good clockwise spin, if it's not your strong side/jumping side.

Yes, I think they would discourage you from learning a good clockwise spin. Why waste your time learning something that is not going to give you any more credit in “competition”. Spinning in both directions is a additional content item, but usually other people had more overall content than just a extra spin or jump in the Clockwise directions, so they didn't win for just one more extra spin or jump in the CW direction. You won because overall you had more jumps and spins over the next competitor.

If two skaters had the same content, I think the person with the spin in the Clockwise Direction would of won, because he had something the other skater did not have. But generally winners just had every jump and spin and the person who had just the one extra spin did not outweigh the person who had more jumps, combinations and jumps overall.

I don't think I ever saw somebody who won jumping and spinning in both directions in a skating routine. But I do think I saw winners who jumped solely and spun solely in the CW direction.

I do feel it is harder to jump and spin in both directions…being… ambidextrous.

I don’t believe there was any hard and fast rule for rotation of jumps and spins. I think everybody just jumped and spinned in the direction that felt most natural.

But everybody did try to learn all the doubles, learned to do all the spins all the complicated spins and some had many combination spins and I do think they got credit for those complicated combinations spins…spins that spun on 2-3 edges…OF edge, change to IB edge, change to OB edge.

Do you guys spin only in one direction.

I think in general the answer is yes, for the reasons above…lol!


Good question and thanks for asking it...lol!

Larry O and Nationals is one week away for me...lol!
larryoracing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2018, 02:01 AM   #6
sk84luv
..., therefore, I skate.
 
sk84luv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Southern Oregon
Posts: 1,238
Default Ambidexterity

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
On ice skates when you learn to spin, you only learn to spin in one direction. It's because when you learn how to jump, you're going to rotate in that same direction.

So if you spin on your left foot and your hands are dials on the clock, you'd spin counter clockwise. Then if you spin on your right foot, you're still going to spin counter clockwise. They would discourage you from learning a good clockwise spin, if it's not your strong side/jumping side.

Is it the same in artistic roller skating? Do you guys spin only in one direction, and is it for the same reason? Thanks in advance.
Okay, I know ambidexterity isn't the exact word I need here; but it will do.

Back in 1989 I took a few lessons from a guy who was an international judge. His name is Doug Ely, about my age, 74. He encouraged me to learn every move in both directions, just as one does when learning 3 turns, Mohawk turns, and figures.

It turned out to be great advice, and one of the lessons learned, stuck in my mind. The other lesson: basics, basics, basics. Stroking with a straight leg fully extended. Toes pointed in direction of movement, hands in strong karate position, also pointed in direction of movement.

How good are you at skating backwards and forwards in the opposite direction? Skating backwards clockwise was one of the most difficult things I've learned. I believe the best skaters are able to do all moves clockwise/counterclockwise. For me, spinning on ice is much easier. You just can't jam skate, though.
__________________
Riedell 336, Roll-Line Mistral, Roll-Line Panthers. Swiss Labyrinth II .
sk84luv is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2018, 07:29 AM   #7
Oicusk82huh
Senior Member
 
Oicusk82huh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Highland NY
Posts: 401
Default

Kcire10...Are you the one that skates in NJ? I can't remember, but was taking to someone from there on an intro forum? Can you teach me to sit spin/crouch spin? You do it on your toes, right? I really want to learn that! I don't think the artistic skaters would be upset if we communicate here. They are all about technique. Just give me some advice if you don't mind!!!

The other night something interesting happened. Sometimes I still bring my inline skates to the rink for fun (the kids get really excited about it). So I was on my quads, but grabbing my inline skates. I was grabbing them by the wheels, kind of the way you'd hold a bar bell (the weight lifting things). Then I started spinning for fun.

All of a sudden it felt like I was spinning while holding onto a ballet bar. It completely perfects your balance. The rollerblades did this bizarre thing with some sort of centrifugal force or something. Has anyone here ever tried something like this? It's such a bizarre experience. I never took physics. So, no, I don't understand what was happening. My son says that it mimics what a "top" does. (You know the spinning tops?) You've got to try this. Can anyone explain what's happening here?

Sk84luv, yes, skating in clockwise direction is more fun. Especially backwards. I very much enjoy skating figure 8's backward, it's almost delicious. Edges on roller skates are even better than ice skates in my opinion. I could literally spend the entire session on a figure 8, but sense that people think I'm nuts. Because I was so "right counter-clockwise dominant" on inline skates, I decided that when I switched to quad skating I would focus on lobes. So that even if I am skating with the crowd (counter clockwise), I am still practicing clockwise moves on every other step. I practice my spins in both directions, and jumping too (I only do half jumps, it's not my strong suit). Tonight I was jumpy for some reason, just had a lot of energy, so I tried some 360's, they went well, but that's not an artistic discussion.

Is there any other advice you guys have on spins? Any links that would help with technique? Thanks.
Oicusk82huh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2018, 10:48 AM   #8
rwsz
Senior Member
 
rwsz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: mass
Posts: 6,812
Default

I actually seen spinners on ice spin both directions more then roller skaters.
look for some videos online for spinning in sit spins, and the others, entering a sit spin is different and easier when done right. harder to explain it, better to see it.
__________________
Ciao Rick
rwsz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old July 28th, 2018, 06:38 PM   #9
Mort
Sk8 Ninja
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Huntington Wv
Posts: 3,316
Default

Not an art skater here, but I find CW spins difficult because my lack if eyesight. More so the right eye does not focus well and can't keep up with the changes of vision at the speed I spin at. This throws off my equilibrium, and makes it hard to control.

There's a boy at the rink who does CW spins very well, I'll see what hand he write with, but I don't think he is left handed. I think he s right eye dominant.
__________________
Home rink: Roll-A-Rama in Huntington Wv.
"Focus on form and speed is a byproduct, focus on speed and falling is a byproduct." - Matguy
Mort is online now   Reply With Quote
Old July 29th, 2018, 04:13 PM   #10
Derrick
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Northeastern Indiana
Posts: 1,326
Default I spin one way and jump the other

And some jumps the other which way. I think it’s slowed my learning for a while. If you want to do combos it helps to jump and spin the same direction. But I still like to try both directions (just cause I can). I’m better entering a one foot spin CCW but I complete the spin better CW. I’d think I would’ve been better off listening to the advice to stick to one way.
__________________
- %___O
------ L
Derrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 2nd, 2018, 11:23 PM   #11
kcire10
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 33
Default

I'm the same guy and yes I do the move on my toes. The way I learned is when I start to spin I would automatically drop, not full speed dropping down but in a consistent, paced motion.

Start off spinning a bit slower than normal at first (not too slow) or you'll end up on your butt everytime.

You also have to learn balance and control to hold out your low spin by tightening your knees a bit and maintaining your toe stance. Once you get it, practice spinning on your toes a bit and then dropping because it is a different feel as well. You can also try to begin your toe spin in a lower than normal position (bending your knees more) and then dropping down. That may make the move a little easier to catch.

It is definitely tougher to do than an upright toe-toe spin but once you get it, you're good.
kcire10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3rd, 2018, 05:50 AM   #12
Oicusk82huh
Senior Member
 
Oicusk82huh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Highland NY
Posts: 401
Default

Ok great, I was thinking about you and wondering if you got your new plate put on yet? We both got our new plates around the same time, we have the same boots and we skate around similar areas. We have a lot of common ground. I had my new plate put on and it's been a total life changer. I'm glad I did it.

So back to that spin. Get a good spin going, but a little slower than usual. Maybe start in a lower position. But the next part is what's killing me. How do you get past that certain point? You may know the point. Any advice on how to get past that point? I can't squat and skate on my toes at the same time, it seems impossible. Would that be a prerequisite?
Oicusk82huh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3rd, 2018, 02:00 PM   #13
Ancient1
Senior Member
 
Ancient1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tallahassee, Fl.
Posts: 1,897
Default

Maybe try learning the one foot spins. You can spin better, faster and feel more in control. The one foot spins are not that difficult. Again I recommend CCW direction for right handed. But if you must do CW then only do CW till you can master control.

First Spin to learn is the Inner Back Upright (IB). The IB can also be used in a sit spin or in a camel, but for now use the Upright till it can be mastered.

For CCW spin, you will spin on left foot most pressure on inner forward wheel the others slide some.

Entry starts from the right foot to step on left foot and enter a deep 3 turn and instead of completing the 3 after the cusp it is tightened into a deep spin.

So first thing to master before learning the IB upright spin is a Left foot Outside to Inside 3 and hold the edge. Do it till it can be done without thought. Then you are ready to do the IB upright entry and then the spin...

Here is a small vid of me doing an IB upright. Keep in mind that I was about 300 lbs and was off skates for about 30 years and just came back. Not the best in the world but it was spotted fairly well. Notice the entry: Step to the left foot forward then start a 3 turn but at the cusp of the 3 turn it changes to a very tight circle. Notice my knee bend is deep on entry and instead of maintaining the same bend, I stand up right at the cusp to tighten the edge into a spin.


Here is the YouTube page:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPVEiCETtY0
__________________
Jim (The Ancient One)
Ancient1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2018, 12:25 AM   #14
Skatervideoguy
Senior Member
 
Skatervideoguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Olathe, Ks
Posts: 957
Default Bi Directional Spinning

Hi Oicusk82huh, kcire10, Ancient1, and others,

In my experience/observation, most folks tend to learn to Spin in only one direction, whether on the ICE or on Wheels. Rt Hander's tend to Spin to the Left, and Lt Hander's tend to Spin to the Right. A Gifted few can learn to do Spins and Jumps in both Directions.

I've forever tried to Spin to the Right, and mostly fail or fall.

I'd certainly encourage folks to attempt to learn going both Directions - but it takes time, and most of us just aren't Wired for it.

Here are a few of my Spins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGQo7lvKJEU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1B7GT7pS3Y

If you'll look close at my feet, you'll see I do the Spins Incorrectly for Competition Skating. I'm unable to do the Proper Flat Footed Stance as you can see Properly done in Ancient1's Video. I have limited Ankle Flexibility and control.

For Oicusk82huh, kcire10, you might find these Vids of some of my friends at the WinnWood helpful for your Toe Spinning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0EF9YauiwM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgU0QVYAPZ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zElfDt_Y0Dw

Harold
__________________
297's on Centurys, 220's on Snyder Advantage, BackSpin 95's, Bones 97's, 98's, 101A's, Skating 65+yrs & still Rollin at 71+. Great Lifetime Hobby to have !
Skatervideoguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 4th, 2018, 01:06 AM   #15
Ancient1
Senior Member
 
Ancient1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tallahassee, Fl.
Posts: 1,897
Default

Hi SkaterVideo Guy,

Actually you were doing a Class D spin (Toe Stop Spin) and it is a competition spin. Not many points but it is a valid spin. So are the heel - heel and Toe - Heel. You were actually doing it very well if I might add... NICE!




Quote:
Originally Posted by Skatervideoguy View Post
Hi Oicusk82huh, kcire10, Ancient1, and others,

In my experience/observation, most folks tend to learn to Spin in only one direction, whether on the ICE or on Wheels. Rt Hander's tend to Spin to the Left, and Lt Hander's tend to Spin to the Right. A Gifted few can learn to do Spins and Jumps in both Directions.

I've forever tried to Spin to the Right, and mostly fail or fall.

I'd certainly encourage folks to attempt to learn going both Directions - but it takes time, and most of us just aren't Wired for it.

Here are a few of my Spins:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGQo7lvKJEU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V1B7GT7pS3Y

If you'll look close at my feet, you'll see I do the Spins Incorrectly for Competition Skating. I'm unable to do the Proper Flat Footed Stance as you can see Properly done in Ancient1's Video. I have limited Ankle Flexibility and control.

For Oicusk82huh, kcire10, you might find these Vids of some of my friends at the WinnWood helpful for your Toe Spinning.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0EF9YauiwM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgU0QVYAPZ8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zElfDt_Y0Dw

Harold
__________________
Jim (The Ancient One)
Ancient1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2018, 07:16 AM   #16
Oicusk82huh
Senior Member
 
Oicusk82huh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Highland NY
Posts: 401
Default

You guys are so good! Thank you so much for posting videos!
I guess for now I will work on my one footed spins. It turns out that I've been doing IB upright spins for a while now, (I just didn't know what they were called) but I'm not good. I can only usually get 3 rotations. Also...I enter it from the Toe Chicken (it's a slalom move). What advice can you give on getting more rotations?

I like to spin the other way too. What's that called? If I'm on my right foot, I'm on my outer edge spinning counter-clock-wise. If I'm on my left foot, I'm on my outer edge spinning clockwise. What's that one called?

Holding weights to spin, has been a total life changer. Do you guys do that?
Oicusk82huh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2018, 11:16 AM   #17
rwsz
Senior Member
 
rwsz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: mass
Posts: 6,812
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
You guys are so good! Thank you so much for posting videos!
I guess for now I will work on my one footed spins. It turns out that I've been doing IB upright spins for a while now, (I just didn't know what they were called) but I'm not good. I can only usually get 3 rotations. Also...I enter it from the Toe Chicken (it's a slalom move). What advice can you give on getting more rotations?

I like to spin the other way too. What's that called? If I'm on my right foot, I'm on my outer edge spinning counter-clock-wise. If I'm on my left foot, I'm on my outer edge spinning clockwise. What's that one called?

Holding weights to spin, has been a total life changer. Do you guys do that?
holding a spin has to do with holding the edge and the correct body position which helps hold the edge.
if u want to get a sit spin u have to get strong enough to be all the way down and hold the spin. like shooting the duck for instance.
__________________
Ciao Rick
rwsz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 5th, 2018, 11:20 AM   #18
Ancient1
Senior Member
 
Ancient1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Tallahassee, Fl.
Posts: 1,897
Default

Hi Oicusk82huh,
I really need to see it to be sure, but from your description you should be rotating toward your back which is called an Outer Back (OB) upright spin. I really need to see a vid of it to verify though.

As for 3 revolutions: That is the minimum rotation that is required to be considered a spin, so since you do 3 rotations then you have completed a spin officially. Now to get more rotations, I need to see what you are doing right and what you are doing not so right (post a vid). Typical things to get a long spin is to spot the spin and keep the weight on the proper wheel/wheels. Optimum is to spot on one wheel as a pivot wheel as you would on a toe stop. But a tight circle is next best. The tighter the faster and longer the spin. Posture and arms and legs play a great roll in the remaining.

On your entry with a toe chicken (not sure but I think I know what you are talking about, a vid would help) is good to start but recommended to enter with my entry which is standard. Hey! My spin was real poor and I know it. I was hunched over, free leg was too free arms not in the best position but I did more than 3 revs (I think I did 5.5 to 6 revolutions) and they were spotted and a fair rotational speed. Yet it is considered poor for completion standards. But for a 300 lb out of shape old man who was off skates for 30 years I am happy I could do that much. But even as bad as my form was, I was able to do a lot of revs.

You will need to use your arms with some dynamic tension and bring them in along with your legs to pick up rotational speed. Tighter you get the faster you will spin, then open up to "CHECK" your spin OUT.

So get the vids and maybe we can be of some help...




Quote:
Originally Posted by Oicusk82huh View Post
You guys are so good! Thank you so much for posting videos!
I guess for now I will work on my one footed spins. It turns out that I've been doing IB upright spins for a while now, (I just didn't know what they were called) but I'm not good. I can only usually get 3 rotations. Also...I enter it from the Toe Chicken (it's a slalom move). What advice can you give on getting more rotations?

I like to spin the other way too. What's that called? If I'm on my right foot, I'm on my outer edge spinning counter-clock-wise. If I'm on my left foot, I'm on my outer edge spinning clockwise. What's that one called?

Holding weights to spin, has been a total life changer. Do you guys do that?
__________________
Jim (The Ancient One)
Ancient1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2018, 07:27 PM   #19
kcire10
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 33
Default

No I didn't get the plate put on yet. I've decided to just get a whole new setup so I ordered the Riedell 220 boot. They make them to order so I should be getting it the beginning of September. I'm on the 120 boot now and people can't believe I'm able to do some of the things I do. They tell me I'm gonna love the new boot and plate and will kill once I get em.

I know what point you are talking about. You get to a certain level and if you try to go lower you start to lose control. It's because your knees aren't firm and you're losing your toe stance (knees are probably starting to point outward when you go down). What you have to do is practice at making sure you get that part right. Also, the positioning of your hands/arms are crucial. Once I drop I grab my left wrist and place it between my legs. I don't know why but it feels more comfortable that way and gives me more balance. I've seen people do different things with their hands/arms, and I've tried it to no avail, so this is the way I'm comfortable with doing.

The main thing is keep practicing, drop to the point you're most comfortable at and hold it. Once you do that, next time go a little lower until you get comfortable at that point and so on.

You'll get it. Believe me I thought I would never get that move.
kcire10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 7th, 2018, 07:32 PM   #20
kcire10
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 33
Default

Ancient1.... Nice spin! Clean and steady. I usually do that sort of spin directly out of a skate move and can do it on either foot (CW on my right foot, CCW on my left).
kcire10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 05:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.