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Old January 7th, 2011, 06:00 PM   #81
BlackLace
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And consider that concussion damage is cumulative:

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jan...i-concussion28

i.e. it doesn't completely heal.
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Old January 8th, 2011, 12:48 AM   #82
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ok, yes bikes are different, they are major form of transportation...
that is totally irrelevant. You fall, you break, regardless of why or how often.
One catastrophic head injury is all it takes to change your world, whether you go every day or once a year.

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and are typically done much faster than most skating,
it's not the speed that causes the injury in most cases, it's the fall from head height to the ground. And in that regard, it's easier to fall backward or loose your balance on skates than on a bike.

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and you also have real traffic to deal with.
the bike helmet law is not confined to raods, it applies to trails as well, which undermines your arguement,
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if something goes wrong with a car or something, you get flipped over the bike, forcing a head injury. on skates, u should learn to fall safely which will drastically reduce the chance of causing a head injury.
and we should all learn to prosper in a market sell-off through shorting.... Come on, dude, accidents happen and often times (like most times), you are just not in control. The one thing you do have control over is preparing for the fall - as in wearing a helmet.[/QUOTE]
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and online inline, as a speed skater, u skate on road, at 25mph (not the biggest ask for a decent speed skater) if u highside wearing lycra while skating on asphalt, a helmet wont do anything. look at what happens to a motorbike rider who highsides at the same speed on asphalt when not wearing leathers. and theres no difference there.
i am missing your point. What is highsiding? I wear a helmet to protect against catastrophic head injuries, not road rash.
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Old January 8th, 2011, 02:52 AM   #83
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One thing that bothered me as we became regulars and saw what I would refer to as casual, or visitor skaters, were the great number of overweight skaters. I feared for them. And we saw quite a few of them go down and end their afternoon.
Actually, fat people are LESS likely to break bones. Our bones tend to be denser. So don't worry!

On the other hand, when we fall it is more "hilarious", so yeah, it's tempting to make a quick exit...
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Old January 8th, 2011, 02:52 AM   #84
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And in that regard, it's easier to fall backward or loose your balance on skates than on a bike.
and u fall backwards on blades your arms go out behind u (not hands first hopefully) and absorbs most of the falling impact without causing any notable injury, and your head doesnt take any damage. not to mention, speed skaters fall forward (The direction your center of gravity is), not backward, so that argument is void for u isnt it? before u ask, i have done speed skating before, the only way u fall backwards, is if u decide to let yourself fall and land on your ass, your head isnt near the ground.

as has been said here already. skating is a risk, same as EVERYTHING else, u make a decision on your experience and situation/needs.
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Old January 8th, 2011, 04:50 AM   #85
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and u fall backwards on blades your arms go out behind u (not hands first hopefully) and absorbs most of the falling impact without causing any notable injury, and your head doesnt take any damage. not to mention, speed skaters fall forward (The direction your center of gravity is), not backward, so that argument is void for u isnt it? before u ask, i have done speed skating before, the only way u fall backwards, is if u decide to let yourself fall and land on your ass, your head isnt near the ground...
boy, you sure make it all sound pretty darned tidy.

Do you have any idea? Speed skaters don't fall according to plan, not in this world, not in a paceline, not when they are sailing over the guy who fell in front of them as they get spun around, not when the next skater kicks them in their sorry head, not when they go into an ass-over-head roll, not when they get up and faint over backwards, not when they fall backwards from a head-on with a cyclist...

And as for newbies, most don't have a lot of dexterity, and when they fall backwards, their hands just flail in the air and they go straight back, where they have no ability to break the fall.

Sure, some falls you can do some damage management and mitigate it with a well chosen landing, but not all the time, and not completely. And their is just a flat out crap load of things out there that will smack you into next Tuesday, and you have absolutely no control over them.

But you do have control over whether or not you strap on a helmet.

Buckle up!
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Old January 8th, 2011, 05:13 AM   #86
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why are u on the wrong side of the road to be in a head on? come on... i thought u americans are on the 'right' side of the road?

arms out isnt a dexterity issue, its actually a basic human reflex.

the kick of the skater in the head: correct you are, now u know why speed skaters wear a helmet and artistic/figure skaters do not, its not a fall from the skating, but the effect of others being around you.

if u want real protection of your head, why do u wear a helmet that only protects a minor part of your head. if you want to really protect your head, wear the sort of helmet snow boarders wear, or better yet, motorbike riders etc wear? because it would be overkill for your needs correct? so what gives u the right to tell people what level of protection they need for the styles of skating u clearly know nothing about?
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Old January 8th, 2011, 05:48 AM   #87
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Originally Posted by JohnS View Post
...the kick of the skater in the head: correct you are, now u know why speed skaters wear a helmet and artistic/figure skaters do not, its not a fall from the skating, but the effect of others being around you....
then why do speedskaters wear helmets in a time trial? There's no others around them in that case, right? They wear it becuase the unexpected can and sometimes does happen, and an ounce of precaution can save a lifetime of regrets.
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Old January 8th, 2011, 06:08 AM   #88
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then why do speedskaters wear helmets in a time trial? There's no others around them in that case, right? They wear it becuase the unexpected can and sometimes does happen, and an ounce of precaution can save a lifetime of regrets.
why? ok here u go. races/events are run by an organiser. the organiser arranges insurace encase things go wrong. to get insurance for speed skating, its a requirement that EVERYONE partaking must be wearing a helmet at all times while skating, or no-one is covered. so time trial is part of the event, they must be wearing the helmet. not to mention its an accepted part of the sport.

once again though, that is speed skating. do you do any other styles of skating besides speed skating or maybe fitness/recreational skating to speak for?
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Old January 8th, 2011, 08:20 AM   #89
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the vast majority of speedskaters (virtually all) in the U.S. wear helmets whether they are racing or not. It has nothing to do with whether the race organizer required it. They wear them when they are training, and there's no requirement there obviously.
I started out as a rec/fitness skater, and would classify myself at that level for about a year. In that time, i never once skated without a helmet. As i have said before, skating without a helmet outside is irresponsible. And the only thing this disucssion is proving to me is that some people will convolute reasoning beyond recognition rather than admit that they are behaving irresponsibly.
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Old January 8th, 2011, 12:26 PM   #90
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what makes outside any different than inside? your still going to be hitting a hard surface? however, as has been said time and time again in this thread, different styles of skating have different requirements and styles of falls. a vertical fall will not result in a head injury, and these can be done outside. u have never done anything besides speed or recreational skating, so what knowledge do u have of other types of skating? none, giving u that much right to comment about what padding people need. would like me saying what sort of padding a martial artist needs, since i have no experience with that.

if its club training, it will fall under the same insurance system as the national sporting bodies, thus there is a requirement. skating in a pack can be dangerous, thus u need a helmet, but why not a back brace? someone kicks your spine it could do some serious damage.
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Old January 8th, 2011, 02:52 PM   #91
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WOW ,this thread is becoming epic ,a lot of mud being thrown around .
I skate for fun ,at a rink and outdoors on trails. I dont wear any safety gear ,although of late have been seriously considering wearing a helmet outdoors (skateboard/derby type helmet).
I also cycle recreationaly and the law in my state (Western Australia) requires that I wear a helmet ,so I comply ,not begrudgingly ,I think it makes sense that helmets can and probably do save lives and the possibility of serious head injury.
I also coach/referee Derby ,and our insurance policy requires the whole safety kit (Helmet ,Knee and elbow pads and wrist guards) be worn whenever I am on skates ,at ANY official event ,whether it be training ,reffing a bout , skating in a parade or standing around on skates at a promotional event .This I also accept and comply with as again it makes perfect sense.
At the social sessions at the rink I dont see many (if any) people wearing safety gear ,and I think the "cool" factor comes into play. That is ,that it simply is not "cool" to wear the bulky protective gear.(I know ,head injuries arent cool either).
What I am trying to say is that you can preach the benefits of safety gear all day long and most people will simply choose the most simplistic approach ,
unless 'forced' to do otherwise.
You can call them crazy or irresponsible until you are out of voice but ultimately they make their own decisions.
My 2 cents.
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Old January 8th, 2011, 04:07 PM   #92
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WOW ,this thread is becoming epic ,a lot of mud being thrown around...
They always do and I've done my share of it over the years.

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...You can call them crazy or irresponsible until you are out of voice but ultimately they make their own decisions.
This really is the sum and substance of it. My goals in these threads have always been to make sure that positive information is available to folks who just don't know or never considered it. I don't argue with folks who just don't want to wear them for whatever reason. You try to tell me they don't offer some protection and I'll typically go toe to toe. The information is there and the rest is choice. It doesn't matter what kind of activity you are doing, accidents happen and taking precautions based on our own experiences and feelings is what we do to keep ourselves doing the activity. Do I really need to wear a helmet when I'm poking around on my bike in the neighborhood with the kids? Is there truly the same level of danger as when I am hammering on my mountain bike or on a frisky group ride with strangers? Clearly not. Am I setting an example for my kids? You bet. That same sentiment is just one of the reasons I'm adamant about them on skates. As a veteran skater and senior member of the skating community, I feel responsible for setting the example for the people who don't know better. Making sure that they understand that despite my skill level, I feel safer for me, wearing a helmet.
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Old January 8th, 2011, 04:32 PM   #93
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scubask8tr, i agree with what you are saying, too. ANd from what i've seen, there just isn't a lot of helmet worn at indoor open skating.
JohnS, my comments were mostly addressed at outdoor skating as pertains to helmet wearing (and the post expressly says so), though i personally would always wear a helmet whether indoors or outdoors. I even wore one when ice skating, indoor.
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Old January 8th, 2011, 05:30 PM   #94
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i skate outdoors on a regular basis, as do almost all slalom skaters around the world, yet i cannot think of many that wear a helmet at all. some wear wrist guards, knee pads, sliders (new wrist guard alternative), for the simple reason, head injuries are just unheard of. the mechanics of the skating restrict this quite heavily.

a beginner/child taking up slalom i would typically recommend an aggressive skating style helmet etc as things can go wrong, especially if they dont have a background in skating, but with experience it becomes less essential, if one chooses to wear one, by all means they wear one, none of the other slalomers will look down on them in anyway.

and by all means feel free to comment on things you have experience with, for what its worth, i personally agree with your opinions if u restrict them to speed skating, wear a helmet and when outdoors wear gloves too. but the less styles of skating you've done, the less experiences you have to pull from, regardless of how many years you have skated.

the sports governing bodies have significantly more experience dealing with it, and due to insurance claims, will also have more experience with the styles of injuries associated and determine what are the pads needed, it is a requirement for them to make sure the athletes are relatively safe afterall. so what right do you have to say that they are wrong?

as i've said from the beginning, you wear pads suited to the style of skating your doing, the experience you have, the level you are at, and what you are comfortable with (assuming you feel comfortable with more). NEVER WEAR LESS PROTECTION THAN YOU YOURSELF NEED TO FEEL SAFE
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Old January 8th, 2011, 09:02 PM   #95
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JohnS, skate safe, and choose wisely at all times so that each of us may stay active and healthy and engaged another day.
If that means wearing a helmet, than i hope this discussion needles some into doing so. When i see the injuries and lost time, and the reprecussions, it simply is not worth forsaking simple precautions and good judgement.
By all means, judge for yourself. Laws and event rules notwithstanding, is there any other way? But with that caveat, i really hope everyone does so responsibly. Just becuase a choice is a personal choice, does not mean that it shouldn't be done honestly, in an informed way, and with consideration of others in mind (like your family or others who might be influenced by your actions).
I only say this becuase skating is a joy to me, one i never take for granted. I've grown to appreciate many things, and to me, it's just blasphemy to take it for granted or not value it. Skating and other things - like the depth of committment and caring we take from our loved ones. It;s amazing, and i've seen things, even on the trail, that brings tears to one;s eyes.
The whole thing is very fragile, though, and i really wouldn't play games with fate. Honestly, i think there's a lot at stake, and i wouldn't take even small decisions lightly.
Good talking to you, and keep enjoying what you do.
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Old January 9th, 2011, 04:37 PM   #96
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O/I thanks, I had no idea the nose running thing was universal! Thought it was me and my otherwise mess for sinuses.

Helmets are required at organized events because organizers wisely purchase insurance to protect their homes and belongings from liquidation as compensation for a damage or otherwise award by a court of law. Actuaries determine risk in relation to cost. If gifted statisticians determine that I should wear a helmet while engaged in X activity, I'm kind of going with that. When I bought life insurance they asked me about a bunch activities, well first they asked if I smoke, then "do I fly" and then "do I fly outside the United States" (good topic for another discussion eh?). but they do ask about things like scuba diving and sky diving and the like. They are going through a process determining your likely date of demise. This same process is used to determine the cost to risk ratio of insurance policies. This includes such mundane things as organized skating events. It may not be a perfect process, but is certainly an informative one. My insurance agent couldn't care that I have bad knees and collapsed arches, because his actuaries don't care. They care if I wear a helmet while propelling myself about at 15-20 mph (granted that's more downhill for me!) on skates, or a bicycle. That is why wrist guards are not required. In this part of the world a broken wrist is not that expensive and will not likely kill you (not the case for 4 billion other people though...), a head injury is both and O/I has made that point perfectly.

Growing up living in an ice rink, I could never understand figure skaters not wearing some gear, tailbone pads maybe? I have seen them get mulched many, many times and have tremendous respect for what they do. Gymnasts too, just not been around it personally. Hockey players are required to wear helmets because they participate in organized (insured) events. It's a good thing too. I was a defenseman for years. Those of you not worried about falling may have a point? But it was my job to help you to the ice, and I couldn't have cared less what part of you landed first. We had to scrimmage in pre-season without sticks to make sure we were competent at helping opposing players to the ice. With extreme prejudice.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 04:43 AM   #97
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Protective gear in an indoor rink for casual skating ? HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA !
OK when initially learning/practicing radical stuff like freestyle jumps, flips, etc. though......
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Old January 12th, 2011, 11:59 AM   #98
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Protective gear in an indoor rink for casual skating ?
HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA ! ......
...icing on the cake, hmm? Perfect example of why so many choose not to wear stuff. Sometimes all it takes is one jackass to make people feel self conscious about their skill level and appearance. Whether the jackass is on a messageboard or at the rink, doesn't matter. Is it the jackass' fault that people react that way? Nope. That's their choice, but thank you jackass, your natural gift has helped make a valid point.
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Old January 12th, 2011, 12:10 PM   #99
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Protective gear in an indoor rink for casual skating ? HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA !
OK when initially learning/practicing radical stuff like freestyle jumps, flips, etc. though......
Maybe you've had too many bumps to the head?

Seriously, today at the general session (which admittedly was an under 13's session, I was skating there with my kids), there were two injuries that resulted in kids being carried off by parents and staff members. One fell backwards and slammed his head on the floor quite bad and had to be carried off. But it was good to see today a lot more kids with at least wrist guards on, and also parents setting examples and skating with pads.
My original post pertained more to beginners who were constantly falling all over the place. I mean, if I was starting some sort of sport or activity that meant I spent every 30 seconds sprawled on the floor after falling over, I'd be wearing whatever padding I could get. Plus as you get older, you don't "bounce" as well as you once did when you fell, and adults have further to fall than kids
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Old January 12th, 2011, 01:41 PM   #100
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Protective gear in an indoor rink for casual skating ? HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA !
OK when initially learning/practicing radical stuff like freestyle jumps, flips, etc. though......
while im not a heavy "pro-protective gear" person, if someone chooses to its their choice. i have seen plenty of skaters, of varying skill levels, wearing padding in a general session at a skate rink, dont think any less of them, it is a personal choice, and things can go wrong.

have to agree with speedysktr on his description of you here.

nb: as much as i am not all "you must wear all padding at all times", nor am i against wearing it if you so choose/feel you need to.
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