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Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

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Old November 16th, 2016, 04:48 PM   #41
AZSHOT
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I imagine there is a law of diminishing returns in bearings. A graph from 1970 to 2016 showing friction or "roll" or whatever would probably have some steep declines when sealed bearings came out (or may not). Then each incremental improvement gave...guess what? Incremental decreases in friction. The graph would show lots of plateaus. A modern Redz bearing is probably quite a bit better than the first Hamptons. But then between a Redz and a ceramic, not much of a change in the graph.

There is also the longevity issue. My mom used to skate on her old wooden wheeled dance skates from about 1956. Same bearings. Did they have 78% more friction than a modern bearing, or just 7%? She didn't know or care. But if a cheaper modern bearing is 96% as good at a $200 bearing, I know what I'm buying.

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
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Old November 16th, 2016, 05:24 PM   #42
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Default The differences

Between the best and average are so minute its not even funny. But it is funny to watch the "feel good" statements in this thread. Heat is the enemy, if the bearings are getting warm, they arent bearings anymore. Go ahead spend tons of cash on them for bragging rights though. Buy stainless if you skate in the wet and rainy, thats about it.. I threw about 40 pair of used inlines away getting bearing from the ones with the least amount of wheel wear. Bought the entire boxof skates for around $55. Still skating the first set I pulled for 3 years.
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Old November 17th, 2016, 06:54 AM   #43
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New thread started re bang for your buck.
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Old November 19th, 2016, 12:10 AM   #44
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Default I like that saying

"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."[/QUOTE]

Its the first time ive heard that.

Can you imagine a nascar being setup entirely off the track for a race ?
Come race day in practice how close to the mark would that car be ?
I would still like to see a graph stating load and speed vs friction on a few different bearings just for info sake .
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Old November 19th, 2016, 12:12 AM   #45
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Default Alright thats an oppinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gee View Post
I think the steel balls will be pressing against the races while the ceramic balls will be floating between the races. The ceramic balls will be less prone to thermal expansion than the steel balls.
what are your thoughts on fitting new ceramic balls into used steel bearings?
so mixing new parts with old.
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Old November 19th, 2016, 02:25 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quantoo View Post
what are your thoughts on fitting new ceramic balls into used steel bearings?
so mixing new parts with old.

I believe that Bones company offers this option, and that will at least assure a perfect fit if you are upgrading Bones bearings.

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Old November 19th, 2016, 04:35 AM   #47
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Default what if the used race is flogged out?

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Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post

I believe that Bones company offers this option, and that will at least assure a perfect fit if you are upgrading Bones bearings.

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Is there any point mixing new with used in that cenario?
If the answer is no then by doing this you will shorten the life of your bearings even if they are slghtly worn in the races and for an extra bit of coin you can buy all new ceramics.
bones reds are $65 upwards qube 8s are $80 approx. here in aus.
I got a set of brand new ceramics in australia and i cant fault them for $90,why would i mess around with my used swiss 7 balls by fitting new ceramic balls in this case? that is nonsensicle.
Will bones put a warranty on that modification?
I would bet my goulies none would warranty that modification on paper in the automotive industry.
Anyway i skated on friday and punished the ceramics i have whilst somebody borrowed my other skates and punished the swiss 7 balls and no unusual sounds or behaviour from either bearings
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Old November 22nd, 2016, 02:14 AM   #48
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Love my Fafnirs! I also love Boss Swiss bearings, which I don't think are produced anymore.
I liked using the German bearing with the bronze retainers back in the day to train with. Those we're bullet proof.
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Old November 23rd, 2016, 02:01 PM   #49
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Bearings pretty much run on the bell curve like most other things. You can safely throw away the crap ones at the bottom and pay out the nose for the super expensive ones at the top.

Clean and lubricated. That's the sauce.

I have several sets of 8-ball german Fafnirs and they're good. I have one set I gave to my daughter because they're worn and I'm too heavy for them. It's a perfect case of "the older I get, the better I was."

I have and like GMN, SKF, KYK, Fafnir Qube, Bones, and several no one has ever heard of. They all work great because they're clean, lubricated and not worn out.

And we've discussed this before, but you can safely ignore the ABEC scale. It has no merit on skate applications. If you'd care to look it, the differences between ABEC1 and ABEC9 are on the order of .000x mm. Significant if you're running electric motors at 30,000 rpm, but irrelevant doing session roundy-round.

Best rolling bearing I have? General Bearing Co, GenBearCo. They're LOUD as all get out but roll like madness. I use them in the softest wheels I have.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 01:07 PM   #50
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I have a set of vintage GenBearCo too. I did clean them as well as I could, and lube them with a shot of CLP Breakfree. They do seem fast, I need to try them again and see how fast.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 01:40 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quantoo View Post
"In theory there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is."
Its the first time ive heard that.

Can you imagine a nascar being setup entirely off the track for a race ?
Come race day in practice how close to the mark would that car be ?
I would still like to see a graph stating load and speed vs friction on a few different bearings just for info sake .[/QUOTE]

Better yet see the machine that could measure the minute differences in bearings resistance. The differences would be so small between the best and the worse. But maybe I should get an account set up for very expensive bearings to sell to people, gonna be a money maker for sure. Get some snake oil too.

I was at the rink a while back when a guy just received his new skates. The first thing he did was take them apart at the rink then buy new bearings for them. I got the old new bearings very cheap. He was no faster than he was but he thought he was.
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Old November 24th, 2016, 02:11 PM   #52
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The problem with testing skate bearings is that there is no standard test rig that duplicates the kind of dynamic loading which skate bearings must handle.

It is only under the most severe kinds of torque loading that the better bearings are likely to show any significantly better performance.

If a given wheel loading dynamic can trigger ball pinch to happen on a cheap bearing, but the same dynamic loading does NOT trigger ball pinch on a more premium bearing, then that small level of a performance advantage may still be enough to satisfy more demanding skaters.

Building a bearing test rig that can properly simulate and compare how well various bearings handle the full range of dynamic loading that skate bearings encounter is rather challenging.

Any assertions that claim cheap bearings perform virtually the same as premium bearings cannot take into account what may happen differently with each type at the the peak dynamic loading moments, like landing jumps, so these are only opinions. They may still be correct, but lacking data → just opinions.

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Old November 24th, 2016, 05:33 PM   #53
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One of my pet favorites is the two-piece German bearing. Like the Fafnir, they also have 8 balls.





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Old November 26th, 2016, 05:12 AM   #54
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Default It could also test hours of reliability

Quote:
Originally Posted by fierocious1 View Post
Its the first time ive heard that.

Can you imagine a nascar being setup entirely off the track for a race ?
Come race day in practice how close to the mark would that car be ?
I would still like to see a graph stating load and speed vs friction on a few different bearings just for info sake .
Better yet see the machine that could measure the minute differences in bearings resistance. The differences would be so small between the best and the worse. But maybe I should get an account set up for very expensive bearings to sell to people, gonna be a money maker for sure. Get some snake oil too.

I was at the rink a while back when a guy just received his new skates. The first thing he did was take them apart at the rink then buy new bearings for them. I got the old new bearings very cheap. He was no faster than he was but he thought he was.[/QUOTE]

The early qube 8s were awesome new but faded fast. most of us are talking about used bearings .
The fafnir 8 supporters {and im also one but have 8mm axles so i dont have them}would most likely have bearings that have done years of service but still roll like almost new.
Those bearings from the guy that recieved new skates were most likely full of grease so would seem slower till they warmed right up. maybe he bought bones swiss with just speed cream in them idk.
Im pretty certain that if your fresh and thrashing in the first speed skate of the night there will be little or no difference.
But even if its only mind over matter i would prefer to know i arent running the cheapest bearings on the market for 3 hours almost solid.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 01:54 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jotson View Post
I like my Bones Ceramics. That makes me ... a Wanker!

They came with a pair of used skates, but yeah, clean Redz roll pretty good too.
If that's the criteria, there are a lot of us wankers on here then.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 03:31 AM   #56
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Default I have one test I would like to try, but it will cost me 200 dollars..lol!

I am a "ART" skater.

And we like to push and make these big barrier lobes as we skate set patterns around a skating rink. Usually big rinks it seems like at Nationals...I have never gone to National are the biggest floors so a better rolling bearing would be useful. Every little bit helps...like Nascar...lol!

I'm hoping a Bones ceramic bearing might give me 5% better roll than a 8 ball fafnir or maybe a 7 ball bones steel.

Here's my test. Right now I can take one push and skate 10 feet short of the long axis wall at the skating rink. My pro has the same wheels as me and the same plates, but she has ceramic bones bearings.

I wonder if I bought a set, if I could get that extra 10 feet and make it wall to wall in one push? She can. Basically that is the only thing different from her skates to mine. Boot are different, but I'm going to let that slide. I want to see if the Ceramics could get me to the other end of the rink in one push...lol! That would be a 5% gain. Floor is about 200 feet long and I'm 10 feet short of making it wall to wall with one push only.


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Old December 8th, 2016, 06:12 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post
I am a "ART" skater.

And we like to push and make these big barrier lobes as we skate set patterns around a skating rink. Usually big rinks it seems like at Nationals...I have never gone to National are the biggest floors so a better rolling bearing would be useful. Every little bit helps...like Nascar...lol!

I'm hoping a Bones ceramic bearing might give me 5% better roll than a 8 ball fafnir or maybe a 7 ball bones steel.

Here's my test. Right now I can take one push and skate 10 feet short of the long axis wall at the skating rink. My pro has the same wheels as me and the same plates, but she has ceramic bones bearings.

I wonder if I bought a set, if I could get that extra 10 feet and make it wall to wall in one push? She can. Basically that is the only thing different from her skates to mine. Boot are different, but I'm going to let that slide. I want to see if the Ceramics could get me to the other end of the rink in one push...lol! That would be a 5% gain. Floor is about 200 feet long and I'm 10 feet short of making it wall to wall with one push only.


Larry O
Swap wheels with her and see, it's likley that it's the skater more than the bearings. If the results are reversed then you know that it's the bearings, if the coach can still go further then you know it's not the bearings.

I am prepared to say there is no way in the world can bearings make a 5% difference in roll. Any difference would be a fraction of a percent.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 06:20 AM   #58
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Maybe a weight issue.....
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Old December 8th, 2016, 08:07 AM   #59
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Default Swap wheels?

Maybe you could swap wheels? Put flips on a "Art" skate, haven't seen many of them.
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Old December 8th, 2016, 12:23 PM   #60
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@larryoracing

In the bicycle world there is a measurable difference using ceramic bearings, let me point out your coach has years of efficient skating, meaning it takes practice to funnel all the energy to rolling, err, no other body movement, having the skates weighted for maximum roll, subtle things that add up, including properly cleaning your bearings and having your "hangers" set up for most efficient use for your activity, dance, racing etc.
But, go for it, compare steel and ceramic bearings, and compare them with different duro wheels.
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