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Speed Skating Forum Most of the discussions in this forum will be about inline speed skating but discussions about ice speed skating and quad roller speed skating are also welcome.

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Old December 15th, 2008, 09:21 PM   #1
j_nolesfan
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Question 688 bearing confusion.

Ok, since I'm moving up to 110s for Christmas, I'm considering trimming some of the additional weight by switching to 688 bearings. I know there are tons of threads on here about bearings but I haven't found one that speaks specifically to the switch from 608 to 688. I also know that bearings don't win races. They can lose races if they break but I doubt any bearing rightfully received credit for enabling a skater to win a race. That being said, I'm looking to cut the weight and I don't want something that will wear out quickly. I'll pretty much skate on a bearing until it either locks up or falls apart. I might clean and lube them on occasion but I don't give them special pampering by any means.

So, I'm looking for some decent low priced 688 bearings AND the adapter sleeves that make them fit into the 608 bearing space. Some spacers would be nice too. That's where my confusion starts. I don't see many bearing sets that say if they come with the necessary spacers so it's hard to make an apples comparison on the price. Are there any brands to avoid? I'd like to stay as far below $100 as possible with the included adapters. In fact, I was hoping to be closer to $50 or less without the adapters.

I'm also open to opinions on whether or not it will be worth the time or the money in terms of weight savings and any resulting performance increase. They say you can save about 16 grams per wheel. That's a lot of grams when you multiply it by eight.

Thanks in advance,
Jeff
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Old December 15th, 2008, 09:35 PM   #2
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I love my Ninja minis. If you order them, make sure to get the kit that includes adapters AND spacers (the spacers are different also)

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Old December 15th, 2008, 09:55 PM   #3
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Yep, Ninja minis are very good.
If you want to go cheap, Powerslide has/had a set of 16 minis with sleeves the same as Ninja, here in Europe I can get them for 10 Euro (the equivalent of about 14 USD). Great quality/price ratio.
I have to say Im not sure using minis in 110 wheels is a good idea... These wheels are really big, the bearings really small, if you put a lot of power/weight/abuse on them I cant promiss you they will take it.
Since Im on 110s I only use good quality 608s, the Powerslide 688s I use in my 4X90 fitness skates.

http://www.skate-dump.nl/index.php?pg=artinfo&id=210

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Old December 16th, 2008, 12:39 AM   #4
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I will give you some remark about spacers. When people are talking about hub flex and such it really scares me off because I rarely felt it (except on 70g 100mm wheels). I however raced on 688's with Supersonic wheels and it had remarkable spin, no spacers, etc. (wheels were made for 688's). Then i bought new wheels and put spacers in and guess what - i felt that flex again. And it was like on that 70g wheel. So if you dont like "flex" you should buy wheels for 688 bearings (which i dont think are easy to get) or just live with it :P You can feel the flex in any spacer (tried 3 companies so far).
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Old December 16th, 2008, 01:08 AM   #5
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After my experience with some zero drag 688 bearings I am sticking with 608. I had 2 bearings freeze during my first SESSION skating on them. This way back when I was a young teenager weighing in at a whopping 140 pounds.

The ninjas are probably better. They are definately more expensive, if that means anything. I've been having such good luck on my $1 bearings that I haven't had a reason to upgrade.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 04:09 AM   #6
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Jeff,

If you want maintainence-free bearings, don't go to a 688. IF you want that type of bearing, find ones with a rubber seal, and not a metal shield....
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Old December 16th, 2008, 12:09 PM   #7
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You are looking at 4 grams for the 688 + 1g for the adapter. That's 5g v 12g for a 608. I never skate with 608's they are so 1995. No problem using 688's with 110mm. No maintenance issues with 688. Look for a good brand, do got for any brand you haven't heard of because the tolerances are very important in bearings. Go for Swiss made if you can afford it.

Jesa Swiss $51 from:
http://www.bontwheels.com/

alx
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Old December 16th, 2008, 12:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
You are looking at 4 grams for the 688 + 1g for the adapter. That's 5g v 12g for a 608. I never skate with 608's they are so 1995. No problem using 688's with 110mm. No maintenance issues with 688. Look for a good brand, do got for any brand you haven't heard of because the tolerances are very important in bearings. Go for Swiss made if you can afford it.

Jesa Swiss $51 from:
http://www.bontwheels.com/

alx
Does that $51 include spacers and adapters?
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Old December 16th, 2008, 03:39 PM   #9
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just to underline alx's quote. He used assumption that wheels (of 608's and 688's) weight the same and in most cases they really do or there is few grams tolerance like at most of wheels from same company. So this calculation sticks and if we add that you have 4 wheels on one leg, the total weight of 688's comes at 16g, 688's with adapter 20g and 608's at 48g. That's astonishing difference if you look only at that (I also believe that 688's spin faster but its same issue as ceramics spin better thread).


Quote:
Originally Posted by godzilla View Post
You are looking at 4 grams for the 688 + 1g for the adapter. That's 5g v 12g for a 608. I never skate with 608's they are so 1995. No problem using 688's with 110mm. No maintenance issues with 688. Look for a good brand, do got for any brand you haven't heard of because the tolerances are very important in bearings. Go for Swiss made if you can afford it.

Jesa Swiss $51 from:
http://www.bontwheels.com/

alx
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Old December 16th, 2008, 04:26 PM   #10
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We can talk about 110mm wheels made for 688 bearings, but the fact is there are no (good/race quality) 110mm wheels made to use 688 bearings directly.
So if you want to use 688 bearings in your 110mm racewheels your only option is to use adapter sleeves.

110 with 688: skate surface - 44mm of wheel - 3mm of sleeve - 4mm of bearing - frame axle
110 with 608: skate surface - 44mm of wheel - 7mm of bearing - frame axle

What do you think is more sturdy/power efficient?

With 5X80, 5X84 and 5X90 I used wheels that take 688s direct, I really liked that combi.
With my 4X90 fitness skates I use wheels for 608s with sleeves and 688s, really like that combi aswell.
With 4X100 I used wheels for 608s with sleeves and 688s, I didn't really like it that much, feels like there is some extra flex. Tried 100s with 688s directly, a bit better but not as good as 100s with 608s IMO.
With 4x110 I use hybrid ceramic 608s, I don't want more flex than the flex that is build into the wheel (Bont wheels with flex hub).

Maybe Alex is right, and I'm skating 1995 style...
I'll pull the 688's and sleeves out of my fitness skates, put them in my 110s and see what it feels like. I just never tried because of the way I felt about using 688s in 100s, maybe I didn't try long/hard enough.

Cheers,
Andy.
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Old December 16th, 2008, 05:03 PM   #11
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Using sleeves in 110mm wheels may work outdoors, but I don't thin it stands a chance of working indoors. Even with 608 bearings in 608 wheels we sometimes have problems with wheel rub due to wheel/hub/bearing flex and or slop. Also, with the quality of the recent wheels from MPC and Answer, adding another "press" fit in the mix is probably not a good thing. Both MPC and Answer managed to screw up their hubs for a period of time to the point where bearings would just fall out of them. This lack of quality control was enough to cause wheel rub and vibration problems. The adapter rings for 688 bearings depend on the compression from the wheel hub to make them work so in the case of these loose hubs, 688 bearings would probably be a bad idea.

Just my opinion
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Old December 16th, 2008, 06:14 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by greazer View Post
Yep, Ninja minis are very good.
If you want to go cheap, Powerslide has/had a set of 16 minis with sleeves the same as Ninja, here in Europe I can get them for 10 Euro
http://www.skate-dump.nl/index.php?pg=artinfo&id=210
.
bedankt voor de tip, andreas

heb gister geconstateerd dat m'n lagers toch niet tegen pekel kunnen

oops, sorry for the dutch language, folks
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Old December 16th, 2008, 10:19 PM   #13
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Ok, sounds like I'm a little ahead of the curve on the 688 bearings and maybe I should wait until (IF) they make 110's with 688 hubs. We have a guy who skates the 688's and 110's indoors on our team. He may not know what he's missing in terms of flex, etc. I'll see if I can talk him into trying some 608's and see what he thinks. In the meantime, I guess I'll either stick with my current 608's or buy a new set. I don't change bearings between wheels much though, just one set for indoor and one for outdoor.

The smart thing for me to do would be to give my current bearings a good cleaning and inspection and see how they look.

Thanks for all of the comments and advice.

Cheers,
Jeff
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Old December 16th, 2008, 11:24 PM   #14
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Jeff, make sure the spacers are right for the wheels. If they are slightly too short, they won't spin properly.

sxevegan, $51 for the bearings only.

Luca Presti set the 500m and 1000m track WR's on Jesa 688's last year. A very large number of the world inline cup racers use 688's week in week out on 110's.

alx
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Old December 17th, 2008, 12:50 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godzilla View Post

sxevegan, $51 for the bearings only.
Thanks!
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Old December 17th, 2008, 01:31 AM   #16
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You can try BSB Swiss too. They worked just as well as their 608 counterparts.

http://www.inlinewarehouse.com/descpage-B688TM.html

better price
http://www.skates.com/ProductDetails...23267&CartID=1



The set in the links comes with the spacers, but not the adapters.
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Old December 17th, 2008, 02:19 AM   #17
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I'm a bit wary of 688s too.... I had 3 break out of one set of Ninjas. The retainers in them just gave out and let the balls go and they locked up. (And I was just session skating on them, and have not ever had that happen to any other bearings.) It was probably just a fluke, but I lost interest in them after that!
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Old December 17th, 2008, 12:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Letme View Post
So this calculation sticks and if we add that you have 4 wheels on one leg, the total weight of 688's comes at 16g, 688's with adapter 20g and 608's at 48g. That's astonishing difference if you look only at that (I also believe that 688's spin faster but its same issue as ceramics spin better thread).
Letme, this is a significant difference if you consider an elite athlete. Most of us posting on this board are not in the elite category and probably have at least one pound of extra weight distributed on their body. For not elite athletes, trying to lose that same 50 gms of weight might be much more economical.

In my own experience, for a man, if I can not see my own six packs (abdominal rectus muscle) in the mirror, there is probably at least one pound of extra weight (~ 450 gms) on.

For losing about 1 pound of weight, you have to eat 500 calories less than you take in for 7 days (3500 cals). When you fast for one day (500 calories less than taken in), you will lose 1 lb/7=450 gm/7 ~ 65 grams.

You can easily do it in one day. In fact, if you skate a full marathon, you probably will lose this same weight in less than 2 hours.

Tibor
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Old December 17th, 2008, 03:29 PM   #19
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Tibor,

You make a good point but that's not an apples comparison. There's a huge difference in losing one pound or even five pounds from your body and losing even a fraction of that from your skates. I agree that the roll of bearings is never going to make a difference for me in a race as long as the bearing isn't significantly slow due to wear, poor lubrication, or damage/trash in the bearing. However, if you multiply the number of times you pick up your skates by the weight difference, it can be extremely significant, especially over longer distances.

Also, whenever you reduce the weight of the wheel, you reduce the rotating mass which is also beneficial.

Jeff
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Old December 17th, 2008, 08:27 PM   #20
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Well you many pound human (not that I'm not). Try adding some weights to your FEET and you'll notice the difference on POSITION where that weight is. At skating you should GLIDE, which means that belly weight is hard on legs when they are on ground, but if you have heavy legs you have to LIFT that extra weight and that adds up more. However we are really not elite skaters and that is why I think EVERY gram matters since we just do not have that extra reserve power to pull from somewhere (since we have fat where muscles should be)

So if I could take few grams off my legs and add them to belly I'd do that. If you consider you take like 200 to 300 g of food into your backpockets then that bearing weight seems like nothing... Same kids I train tell about aerodynamics - what will matter if I get few grams less downdraft on straights, less frontdrag etc. as I will have to carry a bottle of water (300g for sure) on my back just to be hydrated whole time.

There are some things you cant just "loose" (your weight and stuff you carry with you) and you try to put them to spots where they dont bother you a lot... I have trained with weights on my legs a lot, and weights in backpack as well when I was on ice hockey, and I can tell you there is nothing harder than doing stairs with weights on legs :P (backpack was much easier if you ask me).

PS: we are just posting opinions and its up to Jeff to decide and BTW we forgot that there are 4 pairs of bearings on each leg so we can add some more diff :P
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