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Roller Derby Forum Discussions about banked-track and flat-track roller derby events, teams, skaters, and training methods.

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Old October 24th, 2011, 10:03 AM   #41
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i sort of lovehate Atom. On one hand i love that they're really trying to make many things derby specific, on the other hand, i feel like they're going too far with it. Obviously they're great skaters, but they give me the "Be like Mike" feeling, like: wear air jordans and you'll be like Mike. . . . or ... not.

Atom is hot right now, and derby girls will buy buy buy... i say:

"let them skate on less responsive plates on tiny little knee pads. Ability isn't bought, it's learned."
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Old October 24th, 2011, 10:44 AM   #42
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i sort of lovehate Atom. On one hand i love that they're really trying to make many things derby specific, on the other hand, i feel like they're going too far with it. Obviously they're great skaters, but they give me the "Be like Mike" feeling, like: wear air jordans and you'll be like Mike. . . . or ... not.

Atom is hot right now, and derby girls will buy buy buy... i say:

"let them skate on less responsive plates on tiny little knee pads. Ability isn't bought, it's learned."
You hit it on the head. I have tried five different sets of Atom wheels and don't feel any benefit to them in the least. Does this mean they are an inferior product? Not necessarily. They simply didn't work for me.

I feel you on the "be like mike statement". What works for the folks at Atom may not be what the rest of us are searching for and requiring. You're right. There is no substitute in skate gear for ability and time spent developing that ability. But there is also something to be said for trying all of the gear you can get your hands on, and selecting the best product for the what you intend to use it for. Being familiar with all types of gear and understanding how it works for the individual is incredibly valuable in becoming a better skater.

It does irritate me a bit that some Atom fans are seemingly so brainwashed that they can't see that the wheels are doing nothing for their performance. I have heard 165+girls complain and say they cant figure out why they are not performing the same as another lighter skater on the exact same boot/plate/wheels set up. Some of that is lack of skill, and other times it isn't.

I consistently suggest true aluminum core wheels for girls over 150-160, as Atom does not offer any true aluminum core wheels. They are the same nylon core with metal caps.

The brainwashing goes so deep at times that they insist they must skate on an Atom wheel or nothing at all. Why? I only give brand loyalty to those who make a consistently superior product. If it isn't working for you, then why not try something different? If Atom or another wheel works well and you find your performance improving...great. If not, try other wheels and move on.

I highly respect that Julie Glass and others at Atom are making more products for the derby community. I think that is a wonderful thing as there is a need for attention to that market. On the other hand, it irks me that they seemingly produce products that I find to be inferior to other products and then stick huge price tag on it.
That is simply my experience with Atom's products. I want to like what they put out and support my derby community, but if it does nothing for me, I will be needing to spend my money elsewhere.

However, I tend to agree with them regarding 45 degree plates. I havent found any benefit to them as far as speed. Great tight turns and loops with little effort but I can do that on my own with my da10 plate, foot, ankle, knee, and body position with greater control.

I am very interested to see what they have to offer in this new 19-20 degree plate and am hoping to try it as soon as it is available. Like the folks at Atom, I have a hockey/roller derby/speed skating background and think they may really be onto something with this plate idea. Let's see the execution of it before we judge it. Let's all try it out before we give our final reviews regarding this.
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Old October 24th, 2011, 04:58 PM   #43
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i sort of lovehate Atom. On one hand i love that they're really trying to make many things derby specific
I sort of agree and disagree, Atom seems to make things that are different, and then try to tell people why they are better for derby. The narrow wheels were meant for jam skaters, and it just sort of happened that they work for some people for derby better. The smaller diameter wheels and HHC hubs to me seem like pure marketing genius, and not really something that was tested with derby skaters or designed with them from the ground up.

I really liked narrow Strokers as grippy wheels for playing derby, but I had several hub failures.... if the same urethane was poured on a cheap plastic hub, I would have been fine, but then again, no one will pay $120 for a set of wheels with those hubs.

Maybe if the knee pads keep getting smaller, they will have to change the rules to "Take an elbow" instead of taking a knee. According to Atom, Derby people should not be kneeling down anyway.
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Old October 25th, 2011, 01:47 AM   #44
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I sort of agree and disagree, Atom seems to make things that are different, and then try to tell people why they are better for derby. The narrow wheels were meant for jam skaters, and it just sort of happened that they work for some people for derby better. The smaller diameter wheels and HHC hubs to me seem like pure marketing genius, and not really something that was tested with derby skaters or designed with them from the ground up.
you know.... you're right. They just market their stuff at derby players. I still can't tell if i like it or not, even now that more manufacturers are starting to do it too. The bottom line to all of them is selling a product after all, of course theirs performs the best for what you're doing.

Last edited by Eddie; October 25th, 2011 at 01:48 AM. Reason: fixed quote.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 03:06 PM   #45
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I was starting to think I was the only one who felt this way. I crush nylon hubs and pop the hubs out of the Atoms. For $10-$30 more, I can get a solid aluminum core or fanjets that are far superior.

I am intrigued by the idea of a 19 degree plate.
I've never been one to get on the da/45 train with everyone else. Fantastic for people who love them, but not for me.
I find them squirrely. I don't want my plate to do all of the work for me. I use my foot position, body, and excellent cushions/bushings to take care of the action I need. My feet, knees, shoulders, hips and toes are my steering wheel.

I look at the da/45 as an automatic shifting transmission...vs a da/10-15 which is to me more like a manual or stick shift transmission.
Personally I think a race car driver gets more control out of a vehicle with manual transmission vs robot car automatic. I think this is why I favor the Roll Lines over the Snyder da/45. I feel like my my body action controls the skate more than the skate is controlling my movements and body.

Then again I plan on buying the new SG Avenger in magnesium so I may eat my words here in a couple of months.

I would like to try this 19 degree plate. I like to try everything.

I'm hoping it will have a little more action than a 10-15 degree kingpin, but not nearly as much twitchiness of the da/45. I will say the da/45 Snyders are quite lovely and I may love them if I spent the big bucks and learned to tune them. Still a bit twitchy for me.

I don't like the idea of a longer plate. Longer plates are supposedly great for large oval or long outdoor track, but long plates do not equate to more agility and less skate lock scenarios in derby.

Interested to see what Atom has in store, however
Remember that you were skating mine, which I had set up with yellow SGI urethane and on a 145mm wheelbase. Consider that at the time you were skating a 160mm 10 degree plate with hard rubber cushions and set to wobble. I think you went through a range of first loosening my trucks up to wobble, then tightening them down later in the evening, which probably explains the range of motions you were feeling that evening. All this being on an NTS skate which may have farther removed you from your comfort zone.

I would compare the DA45 to a manual moreso than anything with lesser action because more skill is required by the skater to keep them under control. Just as you need to build up muscle and balance from switching cushions on any plate, or loosening the action up a little, skating a plate that allows the user more control will take additional time/strength/balance to master.

As far as Atoms go, I like 'em. The lightest setup I ever had was Skins on a Bont with Atom wheels. THe only metal on that setup were the trucks and bearings, but I could run, jump, and turn my feet over so quickly in those things. The wheels didn't make it entirely possible, but they added to the experience. Then again, I've never had hub issues but I've seen them firsthand, like Elle's and Cat's hubs popping during the middle of a scrimmage. Guess I'm just lucky!
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Old October 31st, 2011, 05:37 PM   #46
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I have lost quite a few Atom hubs... I have sworn off that company.
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Old October 31st, 2011, 08:06 PM   #47
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"let them skate on less responsive plates on tiny little knee pads. Ability isn't bought, it's learned."
Thing to keep in mind about their new plates. They're DA20-something. Which is actually more responsive than about 90% of what's on the market right now. And more responsive than probably 95% of what's currently selling? You know, PowerDyne DA10s and DA15s.

Anyways, as I've mentioned elsewhere, I don't think very much of this campaign or Atom's last PR debacle (the falling video). Talk about products you CURRENTLY HAVE or are about to start selling. Not a product that's in the pipeline that could surprisingly fall out of the pipeline.

But when you DO have an actual product to push, push it by saying it's a good product, not that something else isn't any good or is obsolete. And don't insult customers while you're at it...
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Old November 1st, 2011, 04:14 PM   #48
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.... And don't insult customers while you're at it...
I was insulted, but I am not a customer.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 07:33 PM   #49
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Let me take it a bit further then. Don't insult/piss off the kind of people who make recommendations to the customers you'd like to have.

The SLF crowd isn't terribly hard to piss off, but when you've inspired two different lengthy threads that are more about how nearly everyone disagrees with or dislikes what you've said rather than arguing with one another, you're probably doing the PR thing wrong.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 08:12 PM   #50
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Let me take it a bit further then. Don't insult/piss off the kind of people who make recommendations to the customers you'd like to have.

The SLF crowd isn't terribly hard to piss off, but when you've inspired two different lengthy threads that are more about how nearly everyone disagrees with or dislikes what you've said rather than arguing with one another, you're probably doing the PR thing wrong.
Don't worry. They will piss every one off then change their company name again. Atom is long overdue for another name change.
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Old November 1st, 2011, 08:25 PM   #51
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Exclamation ATOM name changes.

I did alot of there stuff when they were MATTER Wheels. Along with Mo.

There best INlines were The Matter Brand. World Wide. They started making quads and it was difficult to go online and get Matter quads,you got inlines.

Changed Co quad name to Answer. If you raced motorcycles you know Answer is a motorcycle race line of stuff. Has been for years.

So they had to change again. Atom is here to stay.

The only other company that could claim a infringement now is the A Bomb makers. And they don't want to get the scrutiny. ?? Are where there at.
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 08:49 AM   #52
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Okie's right about that. They had to change their name in the past because of trademark issues. Their name change(s) have had nothing to do with their reputation or their products. Rebranding your company is rather costly to do, you only do it if the alternative would be more expensive.
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 06:43 PM   #53
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http://www.derbylife.com/articles/20...ndard_mounting

Who wants to bet that these quad skates they're working on will have the plates mounted all the way to the back with a long wheelbase? ;p
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 08:06 PM   #54
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http://www.derbylife.com/articles/20...ndard_mounting

Who wants to bet that these quad skates they're working on will have the plates mounted all the way to the back with a long wheelbase? ;p
According to the original blurb it was gonna allow you to mount any plate, including short.

Neither contributor mentioned Sport Mount, or where the measurements for those reduced plate sizes actually come from ... whoever sends out rude emails and IDs as being from here really needs to stop, though
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 08:53 PM   #55
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The thing that perplexes me is that people are unable to separate DA45 and Short/Forward. One is a plate and one is a mounting technique. You can use a DA45 plate mounted as long as you like, you you can mount any plate short and forward... it all depends on your preference.

Just because you can mount a DA45 short and forward does not mean they are mutually exclusive.
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 09:07 PM   #56
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Just because you can mount a DA45 short and forward does not mean they are mutually exclusive.
I don't think that word means what you think it means
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 09:11 PM   #57
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I don't think that word means what you think it means
I am talking about the dating usage, not the statistical.
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 09:20 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by Rogzilla View Post
http://www.derbylife.com/articles/20...ndard_mounting

Who wants to bet that these quad skates they're working on will have the plates mounted all the way to the back with a long wheelbase? ;p
Let them keep their long plates mounted at the back of the boots, hope they keep my competition on stuff that don't perform well too!

Some people will never get it, think their way is the best, and push it on other people. I suggest but let the skater decide (unless they want junk),out of the about 10 pairs of skates I have put together for derby girls all short forward mounted, haven't ever had one ask for a longer plate...and I have offered!
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Old November 2nd, 2011, 09:28 PM   #59
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From the article in the link:
Quote:
"The short forward theory started in the 70s and 80s when short track speed skaters wanted to turn sharper;"
I have pictures from European speed skaters in the late 60s, skating road and 200m banked track competitions with short forward. Not 70s, not short track (and not SA-45).

What be described by Doug Glass is similar to "sport mount" but not forward.
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. If you want the best of all worlds then I suggest mounting your plate a maximum from the back of your boot. Your front axle should line up with the ball of your foot or close as possible to the ball of your foot.
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Old November 3rd, 2011, 01:28 AM   #60
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whoever sends out rude emails and IDs as being from here really needs to stop, though
Pretty sure Resurrector sent an email that was NOT rude but asked if Ivanna had actually skated a DA45 and how she was qualified to give an opinion on something she hadn't tried. She got back to him saying it was the first hate mail she'd ever received or some such nonsense.
This article on Debylife really pisses me off. Funny too but the jammer in the photo looks like she's got a bit of speedskater form going on, they obviously didn't notice that.
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