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Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

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Old November 12th, 2016, 06:55 PM   #21
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Yeap, a LOT of people mistake that a fafnir bearing is the best when thats not really the case. It only rolls so well because most skate wheels are crap for alignment, so the loose internal clearances help keep things rolling without the bearings fighting against one another.
Is the argument that a bearing with better tolerance and less roll is a better bearing? I always thought the main purpose of a good bearing is to give you the best roll possible.
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Old November 12th, 2016, 07:00 PM   #22
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You cant get new ones.
I brought up a few sets over the years.
Bone swiss are a good bearing but nothing comes close to a fafnir.
Loose tolerance quality bearings only problem with some is the chamfer on them bitch to get out even with a puller.
I've got bone swiss and bone ceramics GMN nsk ksk nachi cube 8 ball labeda super bearings and hands down fafnir is a better Skate bearing.
I have both Bones Swiss and Fafnir and I will agree that Fafnir rolls better under stress. I had the Bones Swiss bearings momentarily lock up when too much pressure was applied to them and I do not speed skate, I use artistic skates. There was nothing wrong with the Bones Swiss bearings other than it could not handle the stress.
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Old November 12th, 2016, 07:29 PM   #23
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Just a quick one.
Ceramic bearings are a wank.....
Premium steel races matched with premium grade Si3N4 ceramic balls do NOT combine to make bearings that are "wank"

You did not answer my question. If I replaced your beloved Fafnir bearing balls with even more precisely finished and harder Si3N4 ceramic balls, would they become better Fafnir bearings? I assert that they would perform better.

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Old November 12th, 2016, 08:38 PM   #24
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Ok.
Maybe they would technically be better.
But why.Just like your mounting system or spacers which you now realise dont make a difference. To be more precise on a rollerskate isnt going to effect you.
As long as they spin have near zero drag and fit the axel and wheel properly.
Just like half the people in this thread have said the sheild is the problem.
I will say this synder thought so highly of the Fafnirs they had some stamped with there name....That kinda says alot.
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Old November 12th, 2016, 10:42 PM   #25
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Ok.
Maybe they would technically be better.
But why.Just like your mounting system or spacers which you now realise dont make a difference. To be more precise on a rollerskate isnt going to effect you.
As long as they spin have near zero drag and fit the axel and wheel properly.
Just like half the people in this thread have said the sheild is the problem.
I will say this synder thought so highly of the Fafnirs they had some stamped with there name....That kinda says alot.

I don't doubt that The Fafnirs may well be the epitome of performers in the all steel arena of skate bearings, but bearing technology has evolved somewhat since their heyday at the top of the heap.

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Old November 12th, 2016, 10:49 PM   #26
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Just a quick one.
Ceramic bearings are a wank.....
I like my Bones Ceramics. That makes me ... a Wanker!

They came with a pair of used skates, but yeah, clean Redz roll pretty good too.
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Old November 13th, 2016, 03:42 AM   #27
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I like my Bones Ceramics. That makes me ... a Wanker!

They came with a pair of used skates, but yeah, clean Redz roll pretty good too.
Majority of skateloggers (social skaters?) probably wouldn't notice the difference between ceramics and fafnir's. Not sure if the coin for ceramics is better spent on other bits (decent wheels) I'm pretty sure if jackbkwikn, cass38a, mal or hebegb were on Chinese ratty bearings they'd still be quick
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Old November 13th, 2016, 03:54 AM   #28
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Default im a wanker 2 then

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I like my Bones Ceramics. That makes me ... a Wanker!

They came with a pair of used skates, but yeah, clean Redz roll pretty good too.
I love my stealth ceramic 8mms, havent cleaned them in 20 sessions.
but ive never owned fafnirs, but do like the qube 8 balls
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Old November 13th, 2016, 04:12 AM   #29
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This is not aimed at anybody in particular and is exactly the same with cyclists and is probably some reflection of society but here goes.

The people who get obsessed with the minor things like bearings or losing the last possible gram are often people looking for excuses.

If you are carrying more than a kilo of extra pudding around your waist then this will be affecting your skating or cycling more than the equipment.

As long as you have decent skates that fit with quality wheels matched to your floor you are much better off putting your efforts into improving your skills, fitness and strength and losing a few kilos than obsessing about equipment.

All the best skaters I know (and I know a lot of them) just skate, most of them can swap to any skates and they are just as good as they are on their favorite set up.

There is bugger all to gain from bearings, most of the gains you can "feel" are the result of the placebo effect and I recommend you just buy the bearings that the best skater you know is using and go with them.
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Old November 13th, 2016, 04:31 AM   #30
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Ok i know im not obsessed with losing weight.
And im not obsessed with fafnirs .(Maybe Boens)
I Do think there the best Skate bearing.
Will they make you a better skater.Will spacers.Will having your plate mounted in the exact spot down to the thousanth.No way ...
I'm not fast Les and geoff you certainly are.I like those 8 balls 2
Cass is right on all his points.
And yes those with ceramics especially those that paid big bucks. your a wanker.
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Old November 13th, 2016, 07:13 AM   #31
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Default Your as fast as i am anyway jack

Everyone had the fafiners back in the day and they are quality all the way, in this day and age how easy are they to find new?
I spent over $200 on bones swiss 6 balls {cost of postage/ bad aussie dollar}years before qube 8 balls come out and as far last forever the bones bearings i cant fault them.qubes on the other hand are fair value but wont outlast a bones.
I really think jack would notice a bad bearing to a great bearing as he skates indoors at least twice a week from memory and rarely steps off the rink in a session.sometimes skating is about more than just speed. It could be about conserving some energy.
I only paid $90 for my stealth ceramics and they are great, quiet and I do small tests that arent accurate at all but if skate to an average speed and roll till i stop whilst hugging the red line i can tell theres approx 15 meteres in rolling distance between some of my skates.So when i skated a 3 and a half hour session and wasnt absolutely rooted at the end of it, i tend to praise the bearings considering i swapped them many times with different wheels when i cleaned them.
Personally i dont doubt for 1 minute your opinion on skate gear Jack cos i know how much skate gear youve tested and the hours spent on a smooth surface .
Probably what jack is implying is dont waste you money on $200 creamics because most people wouldnt notice any difference .Credit where its due i say also people find a comfort zone with certain equipment that suits them.And thats my 2 bobs worth.We could always ask maxxi jack which bearing can handle 300 degrees of heat just look at the the smoke at the end of a speed skate ,Uno too cos youve tried to out last him also.Im starting to think maxxi has hidden oxygen bottles strapped to waiste {direct injection}.LOl. and i do consider myself a bit of a wanker when it comes to a da 45 plate and 8mm bearings on a 5/16 axle

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Old November 13th, 2016, 07:39 AM   #32
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Default Outsider ;)

I now find myself in the outsider catagory because I almost exclusively run microbearing (16mmOD x 7mmID). Because of this Bont 167's seem to be the only game in town. That being said I have given a set of these a hard time for about 3 and a half years now and they are still going strong
As for the normal size bearings, I am a fan of the Cube 8 balls because of bang for buck.
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Old November 13th, 2016, 10:41 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
Premium steel races matched with premium grade Si3N4 ceramic balls do NOT combine to make bearings that are "wank"

You did not answer my question. If I replaced your beloved Fafnir bearing balls with even more precisely finished and harder Si3N4 ceramic balls, would they become better Fafnir bearings? I assert that they would perform better.

-Armadillo
Some times harder doesnt mean less drag .
Think of a hard pointed object pressing on a softer 1.{exaggerated theory}
There you have the harder material in the ball pushing trying to indent into a softer material the steel race.
We thought soft brake pads would stop better on a dirtbike because they would grip the steel dics more effectively .
But the truth was the harder pad dug into the stainless disc peeling ultra fine layers off the disc biting in and increasing braking power .
the side effect was the discs wore out fast and pads are cheaper than discs.
Maybe just maybe a ball that is softer could distort a miniscule amount absorbing tiny indescrepencys inside the inner and outer race channels.
So taking a used bearing and replacing the balls with new ceramic ones may in fact be worse than leaving it all steel, considering that only 2-3 balls are taking the weight in a straight line anyway.
Who really knows ,ask the ceo of skf?
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Old November 13th, 2016, 11:51 AM   #34
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I did most of my speed skating before 1982, before sealed bearings became ubiquitous, and probably before many here were born. Now getting back into it, I've bought 3 pair of speed skates (two Riedell and one Oberhamer) for myself, and 4 pair for my wife and kids. They are all vintage, and have old open ball bearings or older sealed bearings like Hartford. Guess what? They all roll great, some having never been cleaned from what I can tell in 40 years. The skates show signs of long, weekly use, as we all skated at least once a week in the 70s and 80s. Speed teams more. Yet these decades old skates roll pretty good for a session or two, before we decide if the boot fits well enough to keep the rig. Would I be lovingly cleaning bearings every couple months? Heck no.

I just can't worry about how XYZ bearing can be 3.2% "better" than ABC bearing. They ALL are good when new, much smoother than the old ones. If they don't last 20, 30, 40 years, it's because they make them to tighter tolerances. After one set of 8-Balls I started trying Redz. No difference, and I can get a set for like $27 at a sport shop near here. Am I going to pay $100 for some boutique, exotic material bearing? Heck no. Wheels, boots, and plates, that's what matters. The bearing chase is silly, they've been making excellent ball bearings since prior to WWII.

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Old November 13th, 2016, 12:33 PM   #35
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I did most of my speed skating before 1982, before sealed bearings became ubiquitous, and probably before many here were born. Now getting back into it, I've bought 3 pair of speed skates (two Riedell and one Oberhamer) for myself, and 4 pair for my wife and kids. They are are vintage, and most have old open ball bearings or older sealed bearings like Hartford. Guess what? They all roll great, some having never been cleaned from what I can tell in 40 years. The skates show signs of long, weekly use, as we all skated at least once a week in the 70s and 80s. Speed teams more. Yet these decades old skates roll pretty good for a session or two, before we decide if the boot fits well enough to keep the rig. Would I be lovingly cleaning bearings every couple months? Heck no.

I just can't worry about how XYZ bearing can be 3.2% "better" than ABC bearing. They ALL are good when new, much smoother than the old ones. If they don't last 20, 30, 40 years, it's because they make them to tighter tolerances. After one set of 8-Balls I started trying Redz. No difference, and I can get a set for like $27 at a sport shop near here. Am I going to pay $100 for some boutique, exotic material bearing? Heck no. Wheels, boots, and plates, that's what matters. The bearing chase is silly, they've been making excellent ball bearings since prior to WWII.
Correct! If they are not creating heat, any bearing with the exception of the cheapos with extended inner race and formed/tapered outer race is fine. Better performance is in the wheels every time. Bearings cannot overcome the drag of soft wheels.
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Old November 13th, 2016, 01:57 PM   #36
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Some times harder doesnt mean less drag .
Think of a hard pointed object pressing on a softer 1.{exaggerated theory}
There you have the harder material in the ball pushing trying to indent into a softer material the steel race.
We thought soft brake pads would stop better on a dirtbike because they would grip the steel dics more effectively .
But the truth was the harder pad dug into the stainless disc peeling ultra fine layers off the disc biting in and increasing braking power .
the side effect was the discs wore out fast and pads are cheaper than discs.
Maybe just maybe a ball that is softer could distort a miniscule amount absorbing tiny indescrepencys inside the inner and outer race channels.
So taking a used bearing and replacing the balls with new ceramic ones may in fact be worse than leaving it all steel, considering that only 2-3 balls are taking the weight in a straight line anyway.
Who really knows ,ask the ceo of skf?
Imaginatively good theory, but reality check time.
1) A film of lube should be maintained between balls and races minimizing contact.
2) When there is contact, a harder ceramic ball can and does a better of burnishing (polishing) the steel races as it rolls over them. Some companies are replacing JUST ONE steel ball with an Si3N4 black ball in their stainless steel ball bearings just to gain this advantage w/o the higher cost of doing all ceramic balls.
3) All solid materials deform and rebound, even hardened steel → TEMPORARY SURFACE FLATTENING. For same load, a steel ball deforms/flattens more than a ceramic ball, and thus RIDES ON A SMALLER SIZE LUBE FILM at the closest point of ball to race contact. This means the quality level of the lube is more important for ceramic ball bearings as far as its having a higher film strength, which is typical with most synthetic lubes. Less ball deformation means less area of lube film crush zone, means less churning of the lube, and thus a little less drag from the ball-to-race lube interaction.

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Old November 13th, 2016, 03:16 PM   #37
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I now find myself in the outsider catagory because I almost exclusively run microbearing (16mmOD x 7mmID). Because of this Bont 167's seem to be the only game in town. That being said I have given a set of these a hard time for about 3 and a half years now and they are still going strong
As for the normal size bearings, I am a fan of the Cube 8 balls because of bang for buck.
Same here. The Bont Jesa micro bearings (167 and 688) are holding up very nicely for me. Very light, smooth, and quiet. When I get on my inlines, I always notice the difference in bearing size, I can feel the 608 Bones Swiss balls whizzing around in my wheels, and I can hear them too. It's not the weight that I notice, my inlines are tanks anyway, it's the larger radius of the bearing races.
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Old November 13th, 2016, 03:39 PM   #38
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A bearing thread

Ceramic bones bearing frequently cleaned properly and lubed with two drops of bones speed creme are the worlds best quad skate bearings.

Years of use, parts readily available

http://bonesbearings.com/skateboard-accessories
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Old November 16th, 2016, 10:03 AM   #39
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Default did i say a film of lube should not be used?

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Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
Imaginatively good theory, but reality check time.
1) A film of lube should be maintained between balls and races minimizing contact.
2) When there is contact, a harder ceramic ball can and does a better of burnishing (polishing) the steel races as it rolls over them. Some companies are replacing JUST ONE steel ball with an Si3N4 black ball in their stainless steel ball bearings just to gain this advantage w/o the higher cost of doing all ceramic balls.
3) All solid materials deform and rebound, even hardened steel → TEMPORARY SURFACE FLATTENING. For same load, a steel ball deforms/flattens more than a ceramic ball, and thus RIDES ON A SMALLER SIZE LUBE FILM at the closest point of ball to race contact. This means the quality level of the lube is more important for ceramic ball bearings as far as its having a higher film strength, which is typical with most synthetic lubes. Less ball deformation means less area of lube film crush zone, means less churning of the lube, and thus a little less drag from the ball-to-race lube interaction.

-Armadillo
if a steel ball deforms /flattens{like you say} more than a ceramic ball how can it be riding on a smaller lube film ?.
Think about just that statement for 1 minute.
Do you mean small as in thicknes or area?
Side to side the somewhat distortion is limited by the race.forward and back on the ball would be spread more if the ball distorted that much to make a huge difference, so that would spread the load and the lube over a longer area of the race.
Now im betting if you looked at the steel race under a scope that it wouldn't look all that polished / non pourus and flat right.
So what you may have is tiny whoops in the race that a steel ball has been distorting more also spreading across more than a harder ceramic bearing would. And i said may .
Refer to my comment on contacting the ceo of skf then neither of us will guessing.LOL

Also people most likely wouldnt notice much difference between most bearings when goin flatout. As you have the balls covering more distance in shorter time over a race that approximately has 10 times more surface area of contact than all 7 balls combined . So at full noise the balls could skip over the whoops {indescrepencies in the races} whereas at lower speeds you have 3balls with weight applied barging over the indescrepencies.
The faster you aquaplane on water the less drag noticeable.So the faster you lube plane a ball in a race ,should also mean less noticeable drag.harder to detect at higher speed .
So dillo getting back to session skating at a moderate pace who's to say we would not notice a difference between the roll of bearings?I like ceramic bearings i swear by my stealths, but just like any good mechanic will tell you never mix secondhand bearing parts with new ecspecially if they are of 2 different constructions/ materials.We always change the cups when we replace car or truck wheel bearings and we never swap a used left with a right one either.So i strongly oppose putting new creamics in used stainless of hardened steel inner and outer races.
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Old November 16th, 2016, 02:12 PM   #40
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if a steel ball deforms /flattens{like you say} more than a ceramic ball how can it be riding on a smaller lube film ?.
Think about just that statement for 1 minute.
Do you mean small as in thicknes or area?
Side to side the somewhat distortion is limited by the race.forward and back on the ball would be spread more if the ball distorted that much to make a huge difference, so that would spread the load and the lube over a longer area of the race.
Now im betting if you looked at the steel race under a scope that it wouldn't look all that polished / non pourus and flat right.
So what you may have is tiny whoops in the race that a steel ball has been distorting more also spreading across more than a harder ceramic bearing would. And i said may .
Refer to my comment on contacting the ceo of skf then neither of us will guessing.LOL

Also people most likely wouldnt notice much difference between most bearings when goin flatout. As you have the balls covering more distance in shorter time over a race that approximately has 10 times more surface area of contact than all 7 balls combined . So at full noise the balls could skip over the whoops {indescrepencies in the races} whereas at lower speeds you have 3balls with weight applied barging over the indescrepencies.
The faster you aquaplane on water the less drag noticeable.So the faster you lube plane a ball in a race ,should also mean less noticeable drag.harder to detect at higher speed .
So dillo getting back to session skating at a moderate pace who's to say we would not notice a difference between the roll of bearings?I like ceramic bearings i swear by my stealths, but just like any good mechanic will tell you never mix secondhand bearing parts with new ecspecially if they are of 2 different constructions/ materials.We always change the cups when we replace car or truck wheel bearings and we never swap a used left with a right one either.So i strongly oppose putting new creamics in used stainless of hardened steel inner and outer races.
I think the steel balls will be pressing against the races while the ceramic balls will be floating between the races. The ceramic balls will be less prone to thermal expansion than the steel balls.
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