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Roller Derby Forum Discussions about banked-track and flat-track roller derby events, teams, skaters, and training methods.

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Old October 20th, 2013, 03:18 PM   #1
EvaLittleThing
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Default Rollerbones Turbos problems

So I bought some 97a rollerbones...

They are super slippy. Like I couldn't really do crossovers properly and normally I'm quite strong at that.
Then again I wasn't surprised that there was a jump from 88a to 97a but I tried some atom lowboys 95a before, they were fantastic and figured that given everyone here was saying the rollerbones are grippier than you would expect it would work out.

However first thing I noticed, some of my bearings can fall out if I slap the side of the wheel, others I can't get out of the wheel.

They make a lot of noise, like a lot.

Any ideas why they would make so much noise.

Also I got advice to get this hardness from the manufacturer, seems odd they are too slippy. I'm 190-200 lbs
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Old October 20th, 2013, 04:25 PM   #2
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Can`t explain the noise thing other than maybe it being such a small amount of urethane being on the hub it could be allowing you to hear more of whats going on down there? I have 97`s too and they definitely have a different sound when skating than my Scotts or Anabolix.
As for the bearing fit, thats the norm for these which is pretty good actually.
They need breaking in a little to get the mold release off. Skate them on some smooth concrete for just a little bit, not enough to hurt them lol but just a little. Either way, they`re not gonna hold like the softer ones like you`re used to. The 97 on your RBT`s is only a thin layer of 97 unlike that on other wheels such as the Atoms you referred to. You have alot less rebound on the RBTs because of that. With that being said thats why I prefer the 92`s over the 97`s but there again thats my preference, YMMV.
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Old October 20th, 2013, 07:04 PM   #3
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Like Tyga says, Too much rim make the ride too hard...
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Old October 20th, 2013, 07:23 PM   #4
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When I first got some faster grip wheels I HATED them. They were incredibly slippery. I skated them outdoors and let others use them, wore the tread/groves off before they gripped for me.

What really broke them in well was skating on concrete: smooth concrete with those little lines from a brush, then polished but slightly dirty concrete. Now they stick incredibly well. Its like the super tiny sand and dirt particles got in there and rubbed all that mold release out.

I cleaned off all the dirt I could before taking them back in the rink.
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Old October 20th, 2013, 08:10 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by EvaLittleThing View Post
So I bought some 97a rollerbones...

They are super slippy. Like I couldn't really do crossovers properly and normally I'm quite strong at that.
Then again I wasn't surprised that there was a jump from 88a to 97a but I tried some atom lowboys 95a before, they were fantastic and figured that given everyone here was saying the rollerbones are grippier than you would expect it would work out.

However first thing I noticed, some of my bearings can fall out if I slap the side of the wheel, others I can't get out of the wheel.

They make a lot of noise, like a lot.

Any ideas why they would make so much noise.

Also I got advice to get this hardness from the manufacturer, seems odd they are too slippy. I'm 190-200 lbs
Just looked at your wheel time thread again, my post advised 92a turbos, three or four people before myself did also, so now you have a set of 97's, get another set of 92's and the 97's 'll be great when you get lot's of hours in and want a less "grippy? wheel.
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Old October 21st, 2013, 01:39 AM   #6
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Maybe they just aren't right for your floor. RBTs are really true to the durometer number though... where Atoms seem to skate like they are softer. If you put on some 97a Atoms and then 97a Turbos... the Turbos are going to roll better but grip less. I love my 97s, but I also skate on one of the grippiest floors ever.

Now if they bearings are loose enough to make clicking noises... that is a defect and the manufacturer should replace them. Not sure if that is the noise you are talking about.
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Old October 21st, 2013, 02:23 AM   #7
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Did your plow stops at least improve with the 97a Turbos?

Did you install the soft cushions on your R3 skates yet?

Without keeping your action free, the 97A turbos may not be staying in good contact with the floor, and this will aggravate the slipping even further beyond what the mold release can already cause.

Does your skating bring you up on your wheel edges a lot?
Do you skate with more of your weight forward or rearward on the axles?
Either of these can tend to cause the urethane to separate from the hub, and if this happens, it will cause a lot of noise as you roll. New wheels should only see this issue if the glue bonding is defective from the factory. Wheels like Turbos, with big hubs and thin urethane are more prone to this urethane de-bonding problem.

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Old October 21st, 2013, 10:35 AM   #8
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Default I shall say..

My impression of the guys at rollerbones is pretty good.. I too received a set of Turbos that Made noise.. like a b- b- bb- and bumpy.. I just skated em.. but yeah they're off.. they wobble not side to side.. but up and down a bit I could tell they were egg shaped when I got em.. but it wasn't too bad. i pretty much got them broke in now..


(It looked like the Wheels had been stored in window and the sun had heated up one side of the wheels.. This caused discoloration and egg shape) buy yeah.. you gotta break those in.. now that the ribs are coming off my wheels are getting more grippy every day..
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Old October 21st, 2013, 01:16 PM   #9
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EvaLittleThing,

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursle View Post
Just looked at your wheel time thread again, my post advised 92a turbos, three or four people before myself did also, so now you have a set of 97's, get another set of 92's and the 97's 'll be great when you get lot's of hours in and want a less "grippy? wheel.

Like Ursle, I went back and looked at your post in the "wheel time" thread. I started around the same time as you (last March) on a pair of R3 skates. I'm using different interim skates until my "real" skates come in right now, but I can offer up my experience at around the same amount of "time" as you.

I'm 5'5" and I fluctuate from 190lbs to 200lbs. We skate on a polished wood skating rink floor. I don't know where you are, but one of the things that we're all talking about is moving to softer wheels because the floor, due to the weather getting cold, is getting slicker so we're wanting grippier wheels. The smaller, lighter weight ladies are getting into 88As, and I know that those more heavy like myself are getting into early "90" wheels like 91As and 92As. The heavier girls and, now this is more important, the more advanced derby girls, are on harder wheels like 95As and perhaps higher. We have some "light weight" ladies who weight less than I do but are on harder wheels like 95As. But they're also more advanced in their skill level.

Right now I am skating on Sure Grip Zombie Mids (62mm x 38mm) 92As. I <3 them. I considered getting some 89As for "pusher" or "grip" wheels but decided against it - at least for now or unless Dad's floor gets slicker. (The rink is called Dad's Broadway Skateland so we simply call the rink "Dad's. ) So I am on all 92As.

Bushings.

I think it was suggested in the "Wheel Time" thread for you to change out the bushings in your R3s. Please do so. I am on the softest PowerDyne Universal Magic Cushions - the red ones in that link - and let me tell you, while I had also upgraded my wheels and bearings for my R3s, there was no better upgrade to that pair of skates than the bushings. I took some time at a skating rink for open recreational skating to change the bushings out and really work with my truck settings. IMMEDIATELY I noticed a far FAR smoother ride on the R3s, and the ability to turn and do snow plows improved almost immediately. If you can spare the $15-$18 bucks for bushings, PLEASE CHANGE YOUR CUSHIONS. Once you have your trucks adjusted such that they can turn "inward" easier you'll find you have better grip especially coming out of the apex.

This is a time where you will really need to just sit down and spend some time and love with and on your skates in a relaxed atmosphere - i.e. not at derby practice. Consider them a body part that require maintenance, time to get to know (do you know all the parts of your skates??) and how they work.

If you can, I suggest getting softer, maybe not 88As, but definitely softer, wheels. Until you build your confidence and skill level up along with sheer physical strength, consider getting the 92As (if you want to stay with Rollerbones Turbos). The grip on the wheels will give you far more confidence because you won't feel like you're slipping and sliding around all the time.

Ask me about my epic bruise that I acquired sliding out of the apex almost all the time while riding Atom D-Rods 95As because someone told me to get hard wheels for Dad's "grippy" floor during the hot Texas summer. Bad. Mistake. (I still have a scar that is slowly healing up because of it and the hematoma took me out for nearly 2 months.)

All of that said, upgrade your skates as soon as you can. I've only now realized, through reading the forums, that I was bouncing off my soft flex-y nylon plates from the R3s. Once I felt it flex, I felt the flex all the time and now I know why I had the feeling of constantly wanting to topple over. I'm on Labeda G80s for the interim - the plate is sturdier.

TL;DR: softer wheels, upgrade cushions.
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Old October 22nd, 2013, 03:21 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmx539 View Post
EvaLittleThing,



...

Bushings.

I think it was suggested in the "Wheel Time" thread for you to change out the bushings in your R3s. Please do so. I am on the softest PowerDyne Universal Magic Cushions - the red ones in that link - and let me tell you, while I had also upgraded my wheels and bearings for my R3s, there was no better upgrade to that pair of skates than the bushings. I took some time at a skating rink for open recreational skating to change the bushings out and really work with my truck settings. IMMEDIATELY I noticed a far FAR smoother ride on the R3s, and the ability to turn and do snow plows improved almost immediately. If you can spare the $15-$18 bucks for bushings, PLEASE CHANGE YOUR CUSHIONS. Once you have your trucks adjusted such that they can turn "inward" easier you'll find you have better grip especially coming out of the apex.

This is a time where you will really need to just sit down and spend some time and love with and on your skates in a relaxed atmosphere - i.e. not at derby practice. Consider them a body part that require maintenance, time to get to know (do you know all the parts of your skates??) and how they work.

....
Your advice confirms what I have been telling people rolling with cheap package skates for 3 years now.

Sure, you may be rapidly heading for a better set of skates, but, FIRST, spend <$20 on cushions to optimize turning performance. Bring them up to the highest level freedom of action that they can deliver, and learn how to handle the amazing performance improvement this will give you, even with the cheapest skates.

You really can't learn the full range of skating skills on skates that have poor turning response. You can't learn how to turn sharply while keeping all wheels down, if the plate action will not lean trucks over all the way to the point of wheel bite, and without having to set the action all loose & wobbly near neutral either. You can't push a wider power stroke from a low position, without your outer wheels coming up off the floor, which is bad, if your cheap skate action is all locked up with rock hard cushions.

You can only learn how to fight with your too much resisting plate action. Sure this can develop strong ankle & leg muscles, which you really shouldn't need to make your plates turn in the first place.

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Old October 22nd, 2013, 04:41 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
Your advice confirms what I have been telling people rolling with cheap package skates for 3 years now.
No one is believing me in my fresh meat group. They're all about the wheels. Wheels this, wheels that, I need MOAR GRIPPEEEE WHEEEEEELS!!!!!

Oh well, I changed out my bushings for my beginner skates and I'm doing much better. That's all that matters to me.
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Old October 22nd, 2013, 01:37 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by hdmx539 View Post
No one is believing me in my fresh meat group. They're all about the wheels. Wheels this, wheels that, I need MOAR GRIPPEEEE WHEEEEEELS!!!!!

Oh well, I changed out my bushings for my beginner skates and I'm doing much better. That's all that matters to me.
Yes, I see the same thing with the derby skaters who show up at my speed class, but it seems more driven by desire to avoid any changes to their skates (except wheels) that might impact their skating in any (imagined) ways that could change their limited mastery of their skating - even beneficial ways.

It is as if they worked so hard to reach a certain level of stability and control with their skates they will not risk changing their skate setup for fear they will slip backwards with their skills, no matter how much you assure them that this will only be temporary as they adapt to the performance upgrade.

Cushion upgrade optimization is the "get out of jail key" for the too stiff suspensions of cheap skates, and it also opens the door to more rapid skills improvement and all around better skating performance.
It makes me so sad to see skaters resisting this to their own detriment.

I myself skated for 12 years outdoors on rock hard cushions, never realizing how much more turning and speed performance my plates could deliver. Once I discovered what really good cushions could do for improving any plate, I became a total evangelist for cushion upgrades.

Don't give up. Some skaters are more adventuresome, and when they discover you are so right, they are forever grateful.

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Old October 29th, 2013, 04:13 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gotsk8s View Post
Can`t explain the noise thing other than maybe it being such a small amount of urethane being on the hub it could be allowing you to hear more of whats going on down there? I have 97`s too and they definitely have a different sound when skating than my Scotts or Anabolix.
As for the bearing fit, thats the norm for these which is pretty good actually.
They need breaking in a little to get the mold release off. Skate them on some smooth concrete for just a little bit, not enough to hurt them lol but just a little. Either way, they`re not gonna hold like the softer ones like you`re used to. The 97 on your RBT`s is only a thin layer of 97 unlike that on other wheels such as the Atoms you referred to. You have alot less rebound on the RBTs because of that. With that being said thats why I prefer the 92`s over the 97`s but there again thats my preference, YMMV.
Yeah I bought the 92s and used them with some new bearings, soundless and much much grippier. Although still maybe a little too grippy so might try mixing them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ursle View Post
Just looked at your wheel time thread again, my post advised 92a turbos, three or four people before myself did also, so now you have a set of 97's, get another set of 92's and the 97's 'll be great when you get lot's of hours in and want a less "grippy? wheel.
yes you're right, 92s are great, little bit too grippy though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mort View Post
When I first got some faster grip wheels I HATED them. They were incredibly slippery. I skated them outdoors and let others use them, wore the tread/groves off before they gripped for me.

What really broke them in well was skating on concrete: smooth concrete with those little lines from a brush, then polished but slightly dirty concrete. Now they stick incredibly well. Its like the super tiny sand and dirt particles got in there and rubbed all that mold release out.

I cleaned off all the dirt I could before taking them back in the rink.
I will try this!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Live2sk888 View Post
Maybe they just aren't right for your floor. RBTs are really true to the durometer number though... where Atoms seem to skate like they are softer. If you put on some 97a Atoms and then 97a Turbos... the Turbos are going to roll better but grip less. I love my 97s, but I also skate on one of the grippiest floors ever.

Now if they bearings are loose enough to make clicking noises... that is a defect and the manufacturer should replace them. Not sure if that is the noise you are talking about.
Unsure. Might record the noise, cause it's a strange one, not really clicking.
I skate in a roller disco and a sports hall, hall is slippy, disco is grippy. Think I'll need to change wheels regularly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
Did your plow stops at least improve with the 97a Turbos?
Ish, I was able to turn my feet in enough to slide, wasn't slowing down enough though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
Did you install the soft cushions on your R3 skates yet?
Yes and I love them!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
Without keeping your action free, the 97A turbos may not be staying in good contact with the floor, and this will aggravate the slipping even further beyond what the mold release can already cause.
Action? That could be it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
Does your skating bring you up on your wheel edges a lot?
Do you skate with more of your weight forward or rearward on the axles?
Either of these can tend to cause the urethane to separate from the hub, and if this happens, it will cause a lot of noise as you roll. New wheels should only see this issue if the glue bonding is defective from the factory. Wheels like Turbos, with big hubs and thin urethane are more prone to this urethane de-bonding problem.

-Armadillo
I *think* i tend to skate with my weigh forward.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MiltonChris View Post
My impression of the guys at rollerbones is pretty good.. I too received a set of Turbos that Made noise.. like a b- b- bb- and bumpy.. I just skated em.. but yeah they're off.. they wobble not side to side.. but up and down a bit I could tell they were egg shaped when I got em.. but it wasn't too bad. i pretty much got them broke in now..


(It looked like the Wheels had been stored in window and the sun had heated up one side of the wheels.. This caused discoloration and egg shape) buy yeah.. you gotta break those in.. now that the ribs are coming off my wheels are getting more grippy every day..
Hopefully that will happen

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmx539 View Post
EvaLittleThing,

Like Ursle, I went back and looked at your post in the "wheel time" thread. I started around the same time as you (last March) on a pair of R3 skates. I'm using different interim skates until my "real" skates come in right now, but I can offer up my experience at around the same amount of "time" as you.

I'm 5'5" and I fluctuate from 190lbs to 200lbs. We skate on a polished wood skating rink floor. I don't know where you are, but one of the things that we're all talking about is moving to softer wheels because the floor, due to the weather getting cold, is getting slicker so we're wanting grippier wheels. The smaller, lighter weight ladies are getting into 88As, and I know that those more heavy like myself are getting into early "90" wheels like 91As and 92As. The heavier girls and, now this is more important, the more advanced derby girls, are on harder wheels like 95As and perhaps higher. We have some "light weight" ladies who weight less than I do but are on harder wheels like 95As. But they're also more advanced in their skill level.

Right now I am skating on Sure Grip Zombie Mids (62mm x 38mm) 92As. I <3 them. I considered getting some 89As for "pusher" or "grip" wheels but decided against it - at least for now or unless Dad's floor gets slicker. (The rink is called Dad's Broadway Skateland so we simply call the rink "Dad's. ) So I am on all 92As.
LOL @ Dads

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmx539 View Post
Bushings.

I think it was suggested in the "Wheel Time" thread for you to change out the bushings in your R3s. Please do so. I am on the softest PowerDyne Universal Magic Cushions - the red ones in that link - and let me tell you, while I had also upgraded my wheels and bearings for my R3s, there was no better upgrade to that pair of skates than the bushings. I took some time at a skating rink for open recreational skating to change the bushings out and really work with my truck settings. IMMEDIATELY I noticed a far FAR smoother ride on the R3s, and the ability to turn and do snow plows improved almost immediately. If you can spare the $15-$18 bucks for bushings, PLEASE CHANGE YOUR CUSHIONS. Once you have your trucks adjusted such that they can turn "inward" easier you'll find you have better grip especially coming out of the apex.
I have the red powerdyne ones You are so right, they are amazing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmx539 View Post
This is a time where you will really need to just sit down and spend some time and love with and on your skates in a relaxed atmosphere - i.e. not at derby practice. Consider them a body part that require maintenance, time to get to know (do you know all the parts of your skates??) and how they work.

If you can, I suggest getting softer, maybe not 88As, but definitely softer, wheels. Until you build your confidence and skill level up along with sheer physical strength, consider getting the 92As (if you want to stay with Rollerbones Turbos). The grip on the wheels will give you far more confidence because you won't feel like you're slipping and sliding around all the time.
I got the 92As, little too grippy though :S

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmx539 View Post
Ask me about my epic bruise that I acquired sliding out of the apex almost all the time while riding Atom D-Rods 95As because someone told me to get hard wheels for Dad's "grippy" floor during the hot Texas summer. Bad. Mistake. (I still have a scar that is slowly healing up because of it and the hematoma took me out for nearly 2 months.)
Ouch!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmx539 View Post
All of that said, upgrade your skates as soon as you can. I've only now realized, through reading the forums, that I was bouncing off my soft flex-y nylon plates from the R3s. Once I felt it flex, I felt the flex all the time and now I know why I had the feeling of constantly wanting to topple over. I'm on Labeda G80s for the interim - the plate is sturdier.

TL;DR: softer wheels, upgrade cushions.
Yes, would love new skates, but need to save, my feet are off by a size and are the same width. Shoes do not like me.
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Old October 29th, 2013, 04:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvaLittleThing View Post
Yes, would love new skates, but need to save, my feet are off by a size and are the same width. Shoes do not like me.
I can totally relate. Completely. Unfortunately derby is an expensive sport. Keep us updated!
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Old October 29th, 2013, 08:10 PM   #15
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Another thing to discuss.

How long did you roll teh 97 RBTs? Were they brand new out of the package?

You might have still had some residual mold release that needed to be ground off during the wheel break in period.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 12:54 AM   #16
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didn't read the entire thread but what we have noticed more often than not is not the tolerance of the bearing seat but actual tolerance of the length and diameter of the axle.

I'll read the rest of the post when I'm done catching up from being out for a week.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 01:17 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvaLittleThing View Post
So I bought some 97a rollerbones...

They are super slippy. Like I couldn't really do crossovers properly and normally I'm quite strong at that.
Then again I wasn't surprised that there was a jump from 88a to 97a but I tried some atom lowboys 95a before, they were fantastic and figured that given everyone here was saying the rollerbones are grippier than you would expect it would work out.

However first thing I noticed, some of my bearings can fall out if I slap the side of the wheel, others I can't get out of the wheel.

They make a lot of noise, like a lot.

Any ideas why they would make so much noise.

Also I got advice to get this hardness from the manufacturer, seems odd they are too slippy. I'm 190-200 lbs
I could see any wheel needing some break in, and your weight seems in the ballpark for that duro. (your floor is the other variable) But the noise and variability in tolerances seems like BS for such an expensive wheel. My Power Pluses all had tight bearing clearances. But at least it was consistent.
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Old October 30th, 2013, 05:31 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvaLittleThing View Post
However first thing I noticed, some of my bearings can fall out if I slap the side of the wheel, others I can't get out of the wheel.

They make a lot of noise, like a lot.

Any ideas why they would make so much noise.
The noise may be related to the hub mis-spec. I got a set of Bones DoD wheels a few months back and they also let bearings fallout. Sent a vid of this to Bones and their next production run they sent me a brand new set. Turns out they had an entire production run out of spec (hubs where just a hair too large in ID to press-fit the OD of a 608 bearing).

They did send them in the wrong duro... but I adjusted after waiting so long and riding around on the squeaky wheels it was heaven.

The noise was a creaking/squeaking as I rolled. This seemed to be from the sloppy fit of the hubs to the bearings. They would rub/squeak as I rolled and my weight forced them to shift in the hubs.
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Old November 4th, 2013, 11:17 AM   #19
EvaLittleThing
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OK so after a bit of wear the 97s are working fine in one of the places I train. In the other place I use a mix of 92s and 97s.

XO
OX

Where X is the 92 and O is the 97

I feel so much more agile, it's awesome.
After changing the bearings it's no longer making any noise. Not sure what that was about.
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Old November 4th, 2013, 05:27 PM   #20
Armadillo
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Thanks for the update on this problem & glad it was not the Turbos as the cause.

I just rolled on Turbos for the first time last night, and I was also blown away at how much my speed and agility improved with the 850 gram skates in PIC below. Wheels are fitted with the new Bont 167 micro bearings, which roll very easily and seem to give detectably faster acceleration too.



-Armadillo
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