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Slalom Cone Skating Forum Discussions about slalom cone skating, high-jump, and other freestyle trick skating. (Note that vert, street, and park skating discussions should be posted in our aggressive skating forum.)

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Old May 19th, 2015, 10:03 PM   #41
Mort
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Yea that nicely rounded lip just looks like it would behave well while edging wheels over and wouldn't slip as most lips would on the edge during some slalom maneuvers.

Kinda wanting to make an outdoor slalom skate now.
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Old May 23rd, 2015, 07:36 PM   #42
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I just got the call that my quads arrived! So psyched! Im gonna pick them up tonight!!! The thing is I broke my wrist Thursday night, so someone will have to help me lace them. Cant wait!!!:
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Old July 14th, 2015, 08:27 PM   #43
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I just got the call that my quads arrived! So psyched!
Seeing as you are skating again, have you tried any slalom on your new quads?
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Old July 15th, 2015, 02:39 PM   #44
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Hi, no. I've decided to stick with inlines for the rest of the summer. Quad skating is on the back burner for at least another month due to the HIGH probability of a crash (100%). My MD says I'll be fully recovered by the end of August. Also I can't lace my skates yet.

I was stupid and waited three weeks to have the bone set. I thought I was an expert on healing (until I realized it actually was not healing properly). My bad.

However, I CAN'T WAIT TO GET STARTED!!! Super excited.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 07:33 AM   #45
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Okay, I've been preoccupied. Spend most of my time on ice now. The figure skaters asked me to join a synchro team. So after cracking up HARD and swearing my boyfriend to secrecy I went to a few practices. (BTW...just know that if you're a girl and any good at skating it's not long before someone will try to stuff you into a tutu.)

So yeah I've tried on my quads a few times and they fit perfect. You're going to think I'm crazy but I liked the rental skates better!!! Why??? The best I can describe it is that maybe the trucks were more loose. The leather was old and had no firmness. The skates themselves were really wobly and that was a great thing for slalom type moves. They seemed faster as well. Someone at the rink said it could be the cushions or bushings? Any ideas? I think I'll post on the other sections too. Thanks in advance.
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Old October 19th, 2015, 09:14 AM   #46
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What did ya buy again?
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Old October 19th, 2015, 11:07 AM   #47
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Reidell Juice
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Old October 21st, 2015, 11:29 AM   #48
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They seemed faster as well.
I can think of three things that would make this true. The first is that you somehow got worse bearings in your quads than the rentals. I doubt that. The second is that the wheels are overtightened. If you haven't toyed with them out of the box that is very possible. You should tighten the axle nuts to the point where they just start to slow down the wheels when you free spin them, then back the nut off 1/4-1/2 a turn so the wheels turn freely.

The third thing is the hardness and flex off the wheels. Then we get into all sorts of stuff about hub and urethane properties. The pictures I have seen of the Riedell Juice have a wheel that has no separate hub. That's often the same with rentals, but rentals wheels are typically a very hard compound, and it's likely that the wheels that came with the Juice aren't as hard. I don't skate short, thin wheels, so I can't advise you as to which wheels may work best for you. DocSk8 might be a good bet to help you on that front. The people on the art board might have some other ideas, as will the members of the quad forum. They might even point you to wheels that are close to what you see on rentals (maybe Vanathane wheels?).
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Old October 21st, 2015, 12:59 PM   #49
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Rentals would seem faster because..
Their bearings are usually quite loose from use/age
The wheels harden over time and as long as they arent out of round, they could roll a bit better than a newer set of the same rental wheels.

On your skates, the bearings are probably much tighter on the internal clearances, and the hubs possibly slightly out of alignment, (this causes friction), the bearings are possibly packed with grease,

As for the turning action, there are a lot of ways to augment the characteristics of a skates suspension. Cupped washers, flat washers, or even smaller od flat washers to give more room for cushions to deflect. Along with softer or harder barrels or cones in all sorts of configurations.
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Old December 3rd, 2015, 04:56 AM   #50
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...if you're a girl and any good at skating it's not long before someone will try to stuff you into a tutu..
My mom was a professional ballet dancer. My sisters got stuffed into tutus regularly. Somehow I avoided the tights as a lad but succumbed later when I took up bicycle racing. Might have been more successful at ballet.

Having grown up in New Orleans, tutu wearing has never been limited to females in my experience, although at 57 I have still managed to stay out of one even though I am a very skilled skater.
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Old December 10th, 2015, 07:00 PM   #51
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When I rent or borrow quads I find all the slalom moves fun on quads ...
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Seeing as you're someone who has done slalom on both inlines and quads, I'd be very interested in your personal experience of how your slalom moves translate between the two types of skate, and also what kind of technique changes (if any) you have to adopt.

Certain slalom moves are undoubtedly easier on inlines, so I'm curious to know whether people who slalom on both quads and inlines have the same repertoire on each type of skate, or whether they have separate sets of moves depending on which type of skate they're rolling at the time.

I only have quad experience, so any slalom-type moves that I do are done within that limited context. I don't have anything else to compare it to, so that's why I'm interested to hear the views of people who skate both.

I am now able to answer my own question.

In a fit of experimental madness, I decided to do the unthinkable and try inlines for the very first time ever (so that I could make my own comparison between inlines and quads).

I did this partly in response to the endless comments that I keep getting from inline skaters who come up to me (unprompted) and say that the only reason I'm able to do the kind of slalom tricks that I am doing is because quad skates make it easy. These comments clearly imply that I wouldn't have a hope in hell of being able to do those same tricks if I was wearing inlines. Such (unsolicited) comments happen so frequently that it has now become a running joke among me and my skate friends. We even pre-empt such comments and finish the sentence for the person before they get a chance to do so themselves (because we know exactly what they're going to say).

Whenever I question these particular inliners about how they arrived at such a conclusion, their reasoning always fall apart within seconds. Not only do they not have any credible explanation to back up their claims, but also none of them have ever even slalomed on quads before (so they're in no position to pass judgement in the first place).

Interestingly, highly advanced and accomplished inline skaters (such as several slalom competitors that I know who have WSSA rankings within the top 100 in the World) never make such comments to me. In fact they usually say the complete opposite: "How the hell are you even doing those kinds of tricks on quads!?"

I had my own ideas about which tricks would be easier to do on which type of skate, but I kept those theories to myself because they were nothing more than speculation on my part (seeing as I had never even stood in a pair of inlines before, never mind done any kind of slalom in them). So, by trying inlines for myself, I now have empirical evidence (based on my own first-hand experience) of the difference between slaloming on quads versus inlines.

I did not want to compromise my experiment by 'making do' with borrowing inlines that might not even fit me properly, so I decided to buy my own pair.

I knew nothing at all about inlines, so it was a very steep learning curve for me. After doing a few days of research online, I decided to jump straight in at the deep end and go for a specialist slalom skate instead of starting off with an all-round multi-purpose inline skate. I ended up choosing the Seba iGoR PRO model (the Limited Edition 10th Anniversary version, for some extra 'bling' ). The various improvements and refinements made to this year's iGoR model made it seem much more suitable for me than iGoRs from previous years (which were too fat, overly stiff, uncomfortable, as well as having several other problems that skaters complained about in various online reviews). It was a difficult choice for me to make because, having never skated on inlines before, I didn't really know what performance attributes I was looking for; I just had to guess what I thought might be appropriate for my style of skating.

Having made my decision, I discovered that the Limited Edition iGoR Pro's were not available in the UK, and they would not become available for sale over here for at least another 2 months (despite them having been on sale in Europe and the USA for many months already). Seba's UK distribution is utter crap, which is surprising given that slalom skating is way bigger in the UK than in many other countries. Seba had delayed supply of these skates to the UK twice already, so there was no guarantee that they'd become available even in 2 months time. I didn't want to wait indefinitely for them or be forced to choose a different skate, so I chose to import a pair from Italy instead (which ended up being significantly cheaper than it would've been to purchase them here in the UK).

The size that I needed (EU40) is just at the point where the Seba range transitions from 231mm frames up to 243mm frames. This meant that the frames on my skates would be huge in relation to the relatively small boot size. I did not want to risk going down a boot size just to get the smaller frame, because (unlike Powerslide Hardcore Evos) the iGoR boots are not heat-mouldable, and their high carbon fibre content makes them particularly rigid and unforgiving. Risking a slightly smaller size boot may have resulted in me having skates that were so painful that they'd be unusable. I therefore decided to stick with ordering the correct boot size for me, but this meant that I had to go through the annoying task of replacing the 243mm frames with smaller 231mm frames. That in itself was an ordeal because (due to Seba's shėtty distribution) nobody in Europe stocked the correct frame for that particular skate. I ended up having to contact my friend Naomi (who used to be the importer for Seba in the USA) and asking her if she could send me a pair of the appropriate frames from her old skate shop in Seattle. Importing the frames from the US meant that there was import duty and taxes to pay on top of the shipping costs (which made this a frustratingly expensive exercise). The cost did not end there because I then had to replace all the wheels due to the fact that the original 80mm wheels supplied with the skates won't fit into a 231mm frame. I therefore had to purchase a full new set of 76mm wheels.

I was not that keen on the red wheels (Seba Street Invaders) that came as standard with the iGoR Pro's, so I took the opportunity to change the wheel colour to white. I opted for Hyper Concrete +G (84a). These have a rounded profile (instead of an elliptical profile), and the urethane formulation is supposedly very close (if not identical) to that of the Seba Street Invader. I purchased all wheels in the same size because the frames on the iGoR Pro are already pre-rockered. I preferred the idea of getting a skate with a pre-rockered frame (instead of manually rockering a flat frame by using smaller front & back wheels) because having all wheels the same size allows more freedom when it comes to swapping wheel positions to help reduce uneven wear.

The hassle and expense of getting the smaller frames was definitely worth it. The EU40 boots were just the right size for me (so going any smaller would have been a mistake) but doing a quick test in my kitchen immediately confirmed that the original 243mm frames were way too long. Just standing in them felt horrendous. It was like standing on a pair of skis! The frames were also positioned too far back. I therefore didn't even bother trying to skate the 243mm frames; I just immediately set about removing them so that I could fit my new smaller frames instead.

I struggled for literally hours to remove the wheels, but it seemed as if the bolts were welded into place! Nothing that I tried would make them move. However, I finally managed to unscrew them after getting some advice on a specific technique to use to loosen stuck bolts. I then removed the original 243mm frames and fitted my new smaller 231mm frames, moving them forward from the default mounting position by about 15mm (which felt much better).

This is the finished result with the new frames and new wheels fitted:




I was busy with several quad skate events (including a 10-day skate trip to Europe), so the inlines sat around unused for a few weeks. My inline skate friends could not understand how I could leave such 'desirable' new skates untouched, but I just don't have the same connection to inlines that they do, so I wasn't particularly bothered.

After returning from my skate trip abroad, I decided the time was right to give the inlines a go. They felt pretty comfortable for such a rigid boot, but it's still an unnatural sensation for me to have a boot that is so close-fitting around the ankle and shin area; I'm used to having the top of my hard-shell quad skates left loose. There is a small pressure point at the top edge of the back of the iGoR Pro padded liner which presses against the base of the calf muscle and can get quite sore after extended use. This is exacerbated by the liner's cuff being unnecessarily thick at the top edge and also having two badly placed vertical stitched seams. That section of the liner should have been made as a single piece of fabric with no protruding seams at all. A friend of mine (who has the same skates) said that he had the exact same problem when he first got his. The pressure point was in exactly the same place on his leg as it was on mine. He said that the pressure did eventually stop once the boots were broken in and the cuff of the liner had compressed a bit with use.

Other than that one small pressure point, I did not feel any other discomfort whatsoever when wearing these skates, even over an extended period of time. In fact one of the reasons that I specifically chose the new Limited Edition 10th Anniversary version of this skate is that user comments suggested that recent improvements to the design of the boot meant that no break-in period was required for this latest version compared to the ones from previous years.

I couldn't be bothered to lace up the skates to the top (it's too fiddly and time consuming due to the upper lace holes being positioned so closely behind the incredibly stiff carbon fibre cuff), so I just wrapped the excess lace around the outside of the cuff and used only the buckles to fasten the boot. The skates are pretty lightweight, but I found the forward / back flex horribly stiff and limited. The Seba KSJ would have been a much better option in that regard, but I don't particularly like the look of those skates, and they also don't seem to be anywhere near as durable as the iGoR PRO.

I tried my inlines properly for the first time at one my private practice sessions at my local sports hall. They immediately felt very strange and totally different to my quads. Standing in them felt precarious; as if I had lost all connection with the ground. The problem was not really anything to do with lateral stability, but more to do with the complete lack of grip. I am a total 'grip monster' on quads, and my skate style has developed accordingly, but on inlines I felt as if I was tip-toeing around on slippery ice.

The rocker was a completely new and alien sensation for me. I had assumed that my problem with the rocker would be trying to cope with the instability of having only two wheels in contact with the ground instead of four, but that was not the case. I very quickly (within seconds) adapted to that, but what freaked me out was the effect that the rocker has on foot rotation. While rolling, I could literally swivel my feet on the spot and make the most insanely tight direction changes. This constant swivelling motion gives the impression of being on an extremely slippery floor, and as a result this made me reluctant to tilt the skate over and use its edges (for fear of the wheels sliding right out from underneath me). It took me a long time to train my brain to accept the fact that the ability to swivel my feet on the spot was due to the rocker and not because the floor was slippery. Even then, I was still instinctively cautious when edging my wheels (because I knew that I would not have the insane grip levels at my disposal that I routinely make use of when I'm on my quads).

I spent about 5 minutes rolling gently round the hall (just getting used to the sensation) and then I tried cross-overs. I could do them fine, but they would not win any awards for technique or style. I really had to force myself to trust that those skinny inline wheels would be able support me when tilting the skate right over. I then tried backwards cross-overs and the situation was pretty much the same as when going forwards, i.e. I was capable of doing the move in a functionally correct manner, but I had to use a much more restrained and upright stance than I'm used to doing on my quads. However, when it came to trying backwards cross-unders, it was difficult to make even a half-decent attempt at it, but that's because I use a particularly low-leaning and aggressive grip-driven version of cross-unders on my quads (which just doesn't translate onto inlines at all).

After that, I moved on to the issue that I was most curious about: Wheeling. Certain inliners kept telling me that Wheeling had to be WAY easier on quads due to the wider quad wheels and the fact that quad skates have two wheels on the ground when standing on the toe or the heel of one foot. I called BS on that, because people who do Wheeling on inlines do so in boots with a very rigid shell clamped around their shins, so it's not as if they're wobbling about in soft suede boots with no ankle support. Also, the inliners who make such claims always seem to be completely ignorant of the fact that it's possible to set up quads with such a soft action that they become incredibly wobbly and squirrelly (which would make Toe or Heel Wheeling virtually impossible). They have no understanding of the truck / cushion mechanism, and they just assume that a quad boot is locked into place with no ability to tilt.

I went up onto the toe wheel of one foot on my inlines and I managed to roll the entire length of the sports hall on my first attempt. I tried it again (just to make sure that it wasn't a fluke) and I did it again, no problem. I then tried it on the other leg (my weak side) and I still managed to do it. So, just as I had suspected, this proved that the whole claim that "It's way more difficult to roll on a single toe wheel on inlines than on two toe wheels on quads" is complete rubbish. I was immediately able to Toe Wheel on inlines with no problem whatsoever, and this was within 10 minutes of my very first time on inline skates! Heel Wheeling was slightly different though. While I did manage to do it on inlines, the position of the rear wheel (sticking out behind the heel of the boot) made balancing more difficult. I could only roll for about 10 metres before having to drop back down onto all wheels. This is something that would require some practice in order to become accustomed to the unfamiliar position of the rear wheel, but it has nothing to do with the specious 'two wheels versus one wheel' claim (which is just as invalid for Heel Wheeling as it is for Toe Wheeling).

As an experiment, I tried Toe Wheeling with my inlines completely undone (i.e. unlaced and wide open with none of the buckles fastened at all). The rigidity and close fit of the shell meant that I could still do long Toe Wheelings even with the skates completely undone!

By now I had been on the inlines for about 15 minutes, and I decided to try some tricks to see what was possible. I was going to start with something simple, but my friend who was with me at the time (and videoing my first inline experience) said to me: "Try Heel Toe Screw". I laughed and thought that it might be overly ambitious for my very first day, but I decided to give it a try anyway.

With a certain amount of trepidation I set myself up for the move, but to my amazement it just worked first time. In fact it was a hell of a lot easier to do on inlines than on quads. I then tried Toe Toe Screw and that was easier than on quads too. The rotation was effortless, and I found that I had to really tone down my movements otherwise I would accelerate too much. It was almost as if inline skates turn by themselves (without me having to do anything) whereas on quads I am constantly battling friction and inertia.

I then decided to try the trick that has proved to be the nemesis for many of the skaters that I know: Cobra. On countless occasions I have been told that the only reason I'm able to do the Cobra is because I'm doing it on quads. So now was the time to put that theory to the test. The result? Cobra is definitely more difficult on inlines than on quads, but not for the reason that people kept giving me. They said that balancing on a single inline wheel (one foot on the toe wheel and the other foot on the heel wheel) was far more difficult than balancing on two wider quad wheels per foot. This was the exact same bogus reasoning that they applied to Wheeling; but such claims are simply not true. The rigidity of inline boots means that your ankle is not flapping from side-to-side, and the fact that there are no moving parts between the sole of the boot and the wheel makes inlines actually more stable rather than less stable. If it were true that balancing on thin wheels was the problem, then only very advanced skaters would be able to do moves such as the 'Daffy' on inlines, whereas in reality beginners do Daffys all the time with no problem. No, the issue that makes doing Cobra more difficult on inlines is the length of the wheelbase and the fact that inlines steer by tilting and are generally more responsive than quads. The longer wheelbase (with the rear wheel being positioned quite far out behind the heel of the boot) makes it more difficult to extend your heel forwards because you have to kind of push up and over the rear wheel instead of just being able to tilt your foot back (like you can on quads). This results in the sensation of your leg being stuck and completely unable to move any further forward. This problem is made even worse if you have a standard or rear-mounted frame. Secondly, during a Cobra your extended leg will always be tilted over somewhat due to the fact that it is crossed under your other leg. This means that the heel wheel of the extended leg is on its outside edge and therefore the skate constantly wants to veer off in that direction. Quads don't tilt as easily on their heel wheels as inlines do (you'd have to tip the whole quad over onto one heel wheel to get the same effect as the tilt on inlines). Quads also don't steer on heel wheels by using a vertical arc motion; you instead have to keep both heel wheels on the ground and use a horizontal rudder motion. Therefore quads are less susceptible to the same level of "pulling" and veering off to the side that you get when doing Cobra on inlines.

Despite these difficulties, I was able to Cobra on my 3rd attempt. You do have to use a lot more force during the transition into the move than when on quads, but it does work. I'm pretty sure that I would not have been able to Cobra if I had left those humongous 243mm frames on my skates (even more so if they were left in their original mounting position).

I then tried Cobra backwards, and to my surprise I found that it was easier to keep it in a straight line backwards than it was when doing it forwards. But it's still scarier doing it backwards (just as it is on quads). If you fall while in a Cobra position, you will seriously snap your legs! Within a couple of minutes though, I could Cobra the full length of the sports hall. What remained problematic for me was not being able to generate my own momentum and speed while in the Cobra position. I have refined this to a fine art on quads, and I can accelerate a Cobra at a really fast rate and keep it going for ages, but I hadn't yet had enough time to work out the mechanics of how to do the same thing on inlines. On quads I have to make a horizontal 'rudder' style motion with my extended leg in order to steer the Cobra left and right (which is used when going through the cones) but the technique for steering on inlines is very different; you have to tilt the foot over in a vertical arc like a windscreen wiper, and that means that a corresponding change in method of propulsion needs to be used too. I came back to the Cobra a few times later during the session, and I managed to start steering the Cobra left and right, but actually generating my own momentum continued to elude me, and it will undoubtedly require more than one day to figure out how to do it.

Having got to grips with rolling the Cobra, I decided to see how low I could go in that position, and once I had taken it down to floor level I attempted a Toe Christie. It worked (although it was short and only lasted for about 4 metres). I was still really pleased though, because I don't think many people can say that they did a Toe Christie on their first day!

I then took my Heel Toe Screw move onto the cones and managed a full line of 80s with no hits. I also did some Screw combos: switching randomly between no-cone cross, one-cone cross and two-cone cross, as well as mixing in Toe Toe and Heel Toe variations. All of these were easier to do on inlines than on quads.

I tried a Fan Volte, but surprisingly I was unable to do it even though I can do it on quads (which is much more difficult). I think the problem comes from the same issue of me not yet being able to 'trust' my inline edges to support me without slipping. There is also the fact that inlines can turn so much tighter than quads can, which means that my brute force quad technique is total overkill on inlines.

Toe Sevens on inlines were similar to quads in terms of stability, but steering is easier and more sensitive on inlines, so again I found that my movements were too severe for inlines and this compromised my balance. I could therefore only manage about 2 Toe Sevens (off the cones) compared to 8 on quads.

For a laugh I tried to do some Toe Shifts (hoping that it might just miraculously work). Er ... it didn't. lol. I can feel that it would be easier to do Shifts on inlines than on quads (again, due to the easier steering while on a single toe wheel) but seeing as I can't Toe Shift on quads anyway, then it's not really surprising that I couldn't do it on inlines.

Simple moves (such as Sun, Volte, X, Italian, Brush, etc.) were all easily doable, but they did take some adjustment in order for me to get used to the different wheel position that inlines have in relation to quads. Bizarrely, I found that some of the most challenging moves to master were absolute beginner moves such as Basketweave. That's because those types of moves require a technique that is radically different to quads, whereas some of the more advanced / high-end tricks that I tried were almost the same how they are done on quads, so less adaptation was needed. There are several beginner slalom moves that, despite being extremely basic, are made up exclusively of continual tight arcs; and doing that type of motion on inlines is where the rocker really kicks in and makes the experience completely unlike doing the same move on quads. Learning to 'tame' the rocker was a whole new experience for me, and something that I had to learn from scratch, because there is simply no equivalent on quads. This also affected me when doing moves like One Cone Crazy and Mabrouk both of which use pronounced edges and carved turns (although the turns in the Mabrouk are not as closely spaced or as rapid as they are in Basketweave or One Cone Crazy).

I tried a bit of dancing (Crazy Legs, Downtown, Crabwalk etc.) and that worked ok, but it felt horrible and, as it turned out, looked as horrible as if felt (when I watched the video after I got back home). Some moves looked good (such as Toe & Heel Block Ripples) but for the less tricksy and more pure dance-based moves, inlines just don't cut it for me. There is something about the aesthetic of inlines and the way that they move that just makes certain dance moves look really ugly (to me, at least). Conversely, there are some tricks that look so much better on inlines than on quads.

Speaking of which, for my last trick of the session I decided to try my trademark move: Circle Screw (i.e. a screw travelling along the cone line, but looping around 2 cones at a time, per rotation). This is one example of a move that I think looks beautiful on inlines, and better than it looks on quads (although it does still turn heads whenever I do it on quads). I don't know of anybody who can do this move in the UK (not even any of the slalom competitors). In fact, even internationally there are very few people who can do it. I therefore had to give it a try on inlines just to see what would happen. I managed to pull off 5 successful rotations before knocking a cone, but it was hard work. I'm not yet sure whether it's more difficult to do this move on inlines or quads because there are such major differences in the required technique, and having only skated on inlines for a few hours on one day, I had not yet figured out how my technique for this trick needs to be adapted for inlines.

This move is extremely difficult to do on quads, mainly due to the physical limitations of that type of skate. You need to be able to tip the boot forward onto its toe wheels (to the point where the sole of the boot is nearly vertical) and then roll in that position.

Most quads (except for those with huge wheels or excessively forward mounts) simply cannot do this because the nose of the baseplate (or the toe of the boot) hits the ground and stops you from rolling. I ended up moving my quad baseplate forward and cutting off the nose block, just so that I could do these kinds of tricks. Even then, I still cannot get my quad boot anywhere near as vertical as an inline skate can go (because inlines have a front wheel that sticks out beyond the toe of the boot, so they can pretty much turn almost upside-down and still roll). On quads, however, you are forced to hold you boot at a shallower angle in order to avoid the toe scraping on the ground. This shallower angle makes quad skates more inclined to drop back down onto all wheels, as well as making the trick not look as good as when it's done on inlines using a steeper angle.

The other thing that makes moves such as this (and the Butterfly etc.) look so good on inlines, is that when inlines tilt forward they also elevate at the same time, so it looks as if you are lifted up into the air while standing on toe point.





Another benefit that inlines have is their increased roll. I found that I constantly had to stop pushing so hard because it was overkill for inlines. I was able to squeeze way more roll out of my inlines than I ever could on my quads (even on my super long-rolling Aussie Scott wheels fitted with my best bearings). When you're having to glide long distances balanced on toe point, with no means to push off or accelerate, then you need every bit of roll than you can get.

The one area where inlines lose out in this particular move is when it comes to grip. To generate roll for this move, you basically have to let yourself fall backwards and then, as gravity pulls you, turn and convert that falling motion into rotation. This means that you are on toe point at very leaned angles (making it easy for your feet to slip out from underneath you). With quads there is significantly more grip, so you can lean further without falling, whereas on inlines it feels a lot more precarious. Seeing as I've not yet fully mastered deep edges on inlines, I can't say for sure whether the difficulties with this move are because of the type of skate, or whether it's just down to my inexperience and lack of ability on inlines. However, given how easily inlines can powerslide and hockey stop compared to quads, I'd say that reduced grip on inlines does seem to be a legitimate limiting factor when doing tricks such as the Circle Screw; although this limitation is offset by the benefits of increased roll and steeper boot angles.

Overall, it was a fun and interesting experiment that held quite a few surprises. I certainly didn't think that I'd be doing such advanced high-level tricks so soon, especially not while still being so wobbly with certain basic beginner moves such as Crazy and Mabrouk (where the rocker made things feel totally different to how it feels on quads). I'd be interested to see how much I could progress on inlines given that all of the above was achieved in just one session on my very first day.

Having said the above, I am still definitely a quad skater, and I am not about to change that. However, I do find it interesting to compare and contrast the similarities and differences between the two types of skate. It kind of reminds me of learning a second language; there are many obvious and fundamental differences to what you're used to, but every now and then you find certain words that are similar to your own native language, but they're pronounced in a different way. That's also true for certain skate moves that both inlines and quads have in common; you're already familiar with the "word", you just need to "say it in the right accent" (depending on the type of skate you're on) in order for it to translate correctly.

I can now fully appreciate how skaters who skate both inlines and quads can have their skate abilities significantly enriched beyond those who only skate on one type of skate or the other.

This has been a very long post, and it may not be of much interest to most people, but I just wanted to share my own personal experience (seeing as there is so little discussion available on topics such as these).
  

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Old December 11th, 2015, 05:03 AM   #52
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This has been a very long post, and it may not be of much interest to most people...  
I read every word. Thank you for going to all of that trouble!

My new Evos fit me fine after cooking them a couple of times, and the frames were a good length from the start yet STILL killed me during the break-in period to where I needed to take 6 weeks off to let everything heal up.

The part of your story that surprised me was everyone telling you quads were easier or better for slalom somehow. Being an old fart I started out on quads at 7 years old and could do just about anything on them. Somewhere around age 33 I switched to inlines. Speed, hockey, recreation - obviously three very different skates. Like you it took me one day to transition to forward skating and a couple more for backwards. EVERYTHING about inlines I found to be easier, faster, more stable. The only drawbacks were the clunky boots with necessary ankle support, and the cost of wearing out wheels. I could go YEARS on one set of quad wheels. Playing asphalt hockey on inline skates I could go through three sets of wheels in one afternoon.

So I agree totally with your assessment and comparison. Only difference between you and me is the fact that I never strapped on a set of quads again, not even ONCE since I made the switch. Before I tried inline skates I would have bet a million bucks I would never give up my quads. Sometimes I get the urge to purchase new quads. Your write-up has calmed that urge for now. So thanks for that!

Nice looking SEBAs by the way.
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Old December 14th, 2015, 11:23 AM   #53
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Very eloquent Quadster. I just want to remind the mere mortals among us that have been slaloming for years and still suck not to get discouraged. .

In my opinion "edges" on inlines are more of a concept than an actual thing, because the wheels are round. I know some people will probably school me on that, but hey.

Seba should just shut up and start selling the boots without the #*!**# frame attached, so people wouldn't be stuck with a huge frame and huge wheels they can't use. UGH! Can someone tell me if Powerslide does that?

I started this thread a really long time ago, but only wore my quads once, because they are soooo slow and stiff and BORING!!! I'm completely in love with one particular pair of rental quads. Oh well.
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Old December 14th, 2015, 04:29 PM   #54
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I read every word. Thank you for going to all of that trouble!
You're welcome. I'm glad that at least somebody found it interesting enough to read, and leave a response.



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My new Evos fit me fine after cooking them a couple of times, and the frames were a good length from the start yet STILL killed me during the break-in period to where I needed to take 6 weeks off to let everything heal up.
The 2015 Evos were on my shortlist, and quite a few of my inline friends skate them (or the equivalent model from previous years). I liked the idea of the boots being heat-mouldable. However, despite the boots having that capability, a few people told me that they were still extremely uncomfortable (even after a year of regular use). I therefore dropped them as option because I knew that I would not be skating inlines regularly, so I wanted something immediately ready-to-roll, with no pain and little to no break-in time.



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The part of your story that surprised me was everyone telling you quads were easier or better for slalom somehow.
When people say that, it's almost always in response to seeing me do a heel or toe-based slalom trick. So their comments are more about the balance that quads have rather than the ability of quads to turn. Even so, their assertions are still garbage. The next time somebody comes up with that nonsense again (and they definitely will) I now have a copy of the video of me on inlines saved on my phone to prove them wrong.



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Nice looking SEBAs by the way.
Cheers!
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Old December 14th, 2015, 06:00 PM   #55
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Very eloquent Quadster.
Thanks.



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I just want to remind the mere mortals among us that have been slaloming for years and still suck not to get discouraged.
LOL. I assure you there's nothing special about me. I'm just an old dog who has learned a few new tricks.



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In my opinion "edges" on inlines are more of a concept than an actual thing, because the wheels are round. I know some people will probably school me on that, but hey.
You're right, they are just a concept; it's just a way to explain which side of your wheels you should be on. As far as I am aware that terminology was taken from Ice Skates (where they really do have edges) and the phrase just became established over time and has been used for inlines ever since.

I've got used to hearing the terminology now, but what still really annoys me is when people refer to the middle of the wheel as the "Centre edge" (or "Center" for you US folk). It's bad enough using 'edge' to mean the side of a rounded wheel, but to use it for the middle seems ridiculous to me. In fact that phrase itself is an oxymoron: if it's in the 'centre' then, by definition, it cannot be at the 'edge'. This is not some bizarre misuse of the word by beginners; it's actually used by qualified inline instructors all the time. It's even included in ICP (Inline Certification Program) instructor training guide.



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Seba should just shut up and start selling the boots without the #*!**# frame attached, so people wouldn't be stuck with a huge frame and huge wheels they can't use. UGH! Can someone tell me if Powerslide does that?
Yes, Powerslide skates also come with frames pre-mounted (as do all high-end slalom skates regardless of the manufacturer). However, Powerslide uses a more a sane sizing system whereby the frames do not change up to 243mm until the boot reaches size EUR42 (US 9) or larger. However, the idiots at Seba make this same changeover at size EUR40 (US 7), which is why the wheel base ends up being so disproportionately huge on their smaller skates. They even look ridiculous (the skate equivalent of clown shoes).



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I started this thread a really long time ago, but only wore my quads once, because they are [B]soooo slow and stiff and BORING!!!
As I mentioned previously, I am a quad skater and skating on inlines has not changed that. However, I really did notice just how slow quads were in comparison when I switched back. When you then also take into account the manoeuvrability factor, it makes perfect sense why almost all slalomers skate on inlines.

I like to be weird though. Plus, I like a challenge
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Old December 15th, 2015, 04:02 AM   #56
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The 2015 Evos were on my shortlist, and quite a few of my inline friends skate them (or the equivalent model from previous years). I liked the idea of the boots being heat-mouldable. However, despite the boots having that capability, a few people told me that they were still extremely uncomfortable (even after a year of regular use)
I used to fit skates, hiking boots, rock climbing shoes, etc professionally for 15 years and made thousands of feet happy. My new EVOs were a real challenge. I personally have very little trouble with boot comfort across the board. I used some tricks I doubt anyone else has ever tried in the heat fitting process. I also discovered that the top edge of the carbon footbed ends exactly where my pointy ankle bones touch on the inside. I also figured out how to keep this from recurring as heat molding alone is not enough.

I wear high calf length socks. I pull them all the way up then wrap a 4"x5' ACE bandages around each ankle careful not to create lumps or folds. Then I fold the socks down over the ACE bandages to hold them in place when I put the skates on. The ACE bandages in effect make my skinny ankles/shins the same diameter as my pointy ankle bones. Finally, I hardly tighten the skate laces and buckles at all. I think over-tightening was part of my initial problem. Now the EVOs feel like pillows from heaven filled with holy goose down. Skated 30 miles in them this weekend and finally they are like part of my body, not some foreign object clamped to my feet.

This is just FYI and for anyone else considering the Hardcore Evo skates. It took me about a month to figure it out, then 6 weeks to heal up completely from the experiment (because I skated a few hundred miles in them hurt anyway).
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Old December 15th, 2015, 04:13 AM   #57
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As far as I am aware that terminology was taken from Ice Skates (where they really do have edges) and the phrase just became established over time and has been used for inlines ever since.
I guess referring to the wheel "edges" is just a convenience thing. It never made sense to me either. Hand a non-skater a glazed doughnut and tell them to start eating at the edge. Makes no sense outside of skating.
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Old December 15th, 2015, 08:43 PM   #58
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I can now fully appreciate how skaters who skate both inlines and quads can have their skate abilities significantly enriched beyond those who only skate on one type of skate or the other.
Glad someone else agrees. It doesn't seem to matter how much you tend to tell those single discipline skaters out there, they always think using both hirts form, which with regular use cant be further from the truth.

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This has been a very long post
  
And totally worth the read. Loved it.
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Old December 16th, 2015, 03:50 PM   #59
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Glad someone else agrees. It doesn't seem to matter how much you tend to tell those single discipline skaters out there, they always think using both hurts form, which with regular use cant be further from the truth.
Yes, it's something that's difficult for people to fully appreciate until they've done it for themselves.

I knew that skating both types of skates would broaden the overall range of skate skills by adding new abilities (that's obvious). But what surprised me was finding out that you can improve your skate ability on one type of skate while you're actually wearing the other type of skate! (provided that you're attentive enough to take notice of what's going on).

When certain quad tricks of mine did not translate well onto inline skates, I had to break down the move and isolate all the specific parts of the technique that were appropriate and suitable for inlines. This was so that I knew which bits of the technique to keep and which bits to discard and replace with something else. This meant that the discarded parts were specific to quads. By focussing on and enhancing those discarded parts (after I got back onto my quads) it allowed me to improve the precise areas of technique that have the greatest impact on the ability to successfully perform the move on quad skates. This was better than me working haphazardly on the entire move as a whole without really understanding which constituent parts were of the greatest relevance to quad technique.

By pinpointing the techniques that are exclusive to one particular type of skate (which can only really be done once you've skated on the other type of skate to find out what doesn't work) you can then focus on those skate-type specific techniques in order to optimise and advance your skating for each type of skate individually.



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totally worth the read. Loved it.
Thank you! I didn't think hardly anyone would bother to read it (due to the length of the post).

I have since gone back and edited my post to add video links for many of the slalom tricks that I made reference to. This should make the post a bit more interesting to those people who are not familiar with slalom terminology, because they can now get to see for themselves the kind of moves that I was referring to.
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Old December 16th, 2015, 04:37 PM   #60
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Yes, it's something that's difficult for people to fully appreciate until they've done it for themselves.

I knew that skating both types of skates would broaden the overall range of skate skills by adding new abilities (that's obvious). But what surprised me was finding out that you can improve your skate ability on one type of skate while you're actually wearing the other type of skate! (provided that you're attentive enough to take notice of what's going on).

When certain quad tricks of mine did not translate well onto inline skates, I had to break down the move and isolate all the specific parts of the technique that were appropriate and suitable for inlines. This was so that I knew which bits of the technique to keep and which bits to discard and replace with something else. This meant that the discarded parts were specific to quads. By focussing on and enhancing those discarded parts (after I got back onto my quads) it allowed me to improve the precise areas of technique that have the greatest impact on the ability to successfully perform the move on quad skates. This was better than me working haphazardly on the entire move as a whole without really understanding which constituent parts were of the greatest relevance to quad technique.



By pinpointing the techniques that are exclusive to one particular type of skate (which can only really be done once you've skated on the other type of skate to find out what doesn't work) you can then focus on those skate-type specific techniques in order to optimise and advance your skating for each type of skate individually.
This x1000.

Learning the difference in foot positioning (kicking if you would) for the task at hand, will undoubtedly make your skating better. No matter what your on. Hardest thing I have going back and forth is wheelbase changes, my only inlines have a 270ish frame my quads are a 193mm wheelbase. But after a few minuites, its all good.

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Thank you! I didn't think hardly anyone would bother to read it (due to the length of the post).

I have since gone back and edited my post to add video links for many of the slalom tricks that I made reference to. This should make the post a bit more interesting to those people who are not familiar with slalom terminology, because they can now get to see for themselves the kind of moves that I was referring to.
My terminology for slalom is pretty much nil. Id like to get into slalom but this location pretty much has no skaters that are down for it. Those who skate around here as adults go are derby players, and that is their focus, derby. They dont consider stuff I do or tell them to learn as something thats good for derby, well not until they learn that better skating skills , reguardless if they are derby specific or not are more icing on the cake. Id be doing it solo pretty much lol. My real addiction is balls out speed forward, backwards, sideways using people as cones. Like a constantly changing high speed obstacle course. But every little bit of foot coordination I gain from some slalom tricks pays off. Better tike strides use less energy and make you faster.



Funny thing about just overall skating we do,

Recently my daughter and a friend went to North Carolina het up a rink down in NC where they have a speed team. They did races that session. my wife tried to warn the DJ, and told him to let her race with the boys. They said no, it would be unfair etc... till they saw her take off. So they moved her up an age bracket, put her with the boys and their speed inlines. She smoked them all . They were convinced she was some speed team kid that did racing all the time, when my wife told them shes just a session skater and she plays derby they couldnt believe it. Thing is , we work on all aspects of our skating. Over specializing breeds in weakness. My goal in skating is to be able to do it all
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