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Roller Dance and Session Skating Forum Discussions about roller dancing, jamskating, rexing, rink session skating, dance circle skating, and similar types of recreational indoor and outdoor skate dancing .

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Old December 10th, 2012, 12:20 PM   #1
curtisxdavis
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Default Flat spots on bones super elite [Help]

I have a fair amount of flat spots on my wheels, its not really specific to one skate or wheel though its more severe on my rear wheels. I'm currently skating on bones super elites [whiskey] 101a. I was wondering if it would be better to get 103a or if there are other wheels more resistant to flat spots. As far as grip the 101s are perfect just the flat spots are a constant pain.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 12:38 PM   #2
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The joy of Super Elites is there's plenty of meat on them to remove - anyone with a lathe and suitable skills should be able to get them back to round for you. I'd say only swap to 103a if you feel that that would suit your needs.

I've not managed to flat my white Super Elites (or any other wheel TBH), though thats probably more due to technique - what do you think caused it?
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Old December 10th, 2012, 07:16 PM   #3
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Default wrong direction....

Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisxdavis View Post
I have a fair amount of flat spots on my wheels, its not really specific to one skate or wheel though its more severe on my rear wheels. I'm currently skating on bones super elites [whiskey] 101a. I was wondering if it would be better to get 103a or if there are other wheels more resistant to flat spots. As far as grip the 101s are perfect just the flat spots are a constant pain.
Generally speaking, harder urethane wheels flat easier than softer wheels, so if you like the Bones elite, you would want to try something softer not harder. If you are willing to try something harder and smaller then any vanathane type wheel is much more resistant to flat spots then a urethane wheel, but generally they come in smaller diameters, like 57mm and below
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Old December 10th, 2012, 07:34 PM   #4
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And yet soft Roll Line wheels are very easy to flat-spot ...
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Old December 10th, 2012, 07:54 PM   #5
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And yet soft Roll Line wheels are very easy to flat-spot ...
Lots of peole do have flat issues with them, most who had flat issues on the 97a, did better on the 95a, so yes they all have known flatting issues, but at least from those that I know, the issues were less with the 95's then the 97's. I myself, a less than svelt hockey stopping fool never had any issue with the 97, my gripe is they wear VERY fast, YMMV.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 08:41 PM   #6
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Yeah, also I think there's some folks out there who manage to flat-spot just about anything ...

So, OP, whatcha recon?
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Old December 10th, 2012, 09:57 PM   #7
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I do not understand this......

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Originally Posted by pjmariner View Post
Generally speaking, harder urethane wheels flat easier than softer wheels, so if you like the Bones elite, you would want to try something softer not harder.
With all else being absolutely equal, how/why would a harder wheel flat-spot easier than a softer one, say for example in hockey stops? Kinda looking for a technical answer as I can't wrap my head around this idea.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 10:34 PM   #8
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Default My guess....

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I do not understand this......



With all else being absolutely equal, how/why would a harder wheel flat-spot easier than a softer one, say for example in hockey stops? Kinda looking for a technical answer as I can't wrap my head around this idea.

Soft wheels compress more, and have a larger contact patch with the ground, so to some degree they are "flatter" when they roll then a harder wheel. A hard wheel has a smaller contact patch, and if the wheel locks up ans slides sideways, you can flatten the small contact patch quicker than you would flatten a larger contact patch.

Like if you drag a piece of sand paper down a sharp, fresh cut 90 degree edge of a board, the flattening effect is more dramtic then if you dragged the same piece of paper down the edge of a say your common 2x4' that already has softend edges.

My guess, no proof.
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Old December 10th, 2012, 11:22 PM   #9
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My guess? It's easier to get them to slide longer.
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Old December 12th, 2012, 01:03 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjmariner View Post
Generally speaking, harder urethane wheels flat easier than softer wheels, so if you like the Bones elite, you would want to try something softer not harder. If you are willing to try something harder and smaller then any vanathane type wheel is much more resistant to flat spots then a urethane wheel, but generally they come in smaller diameters, like 57mm and below
I had a set of vanathane wheels before my super elites. Can't remember what brand or what they were called, but they coned pretty quick, never flatted though. They were a little slick so I swapped them for the bones.

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The joy of Super Elites is there's plenty of meat on them to remove - anyone with a lathe and suitable skills should be able to get them back to round for you. I'd say only swap to 103a if you feel that that would suit your needs.

I've not managed to flat my white Super Elites (or any other wheel TBH), though thats probably more due to technique - what do you think caused it?
I don't really know, I got the first flat spot about 30min in to skating on them. I think that one might have a been from a sudden t-stop lol. I have since loosened my wheels and my trucks, which seemed to help for a while. Maybe its just the way I skate?
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Old December 12th, 2012, 02:24 PM   #11
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When you pull a t-stop, if you keep your skates at a bit less than 90 degrees they'll turn while you brake, so no flat spots

Having a bit of action in your trucks helps for all kinds of stuff though, and might help avoid more flats ... as for Vanathanes coning, yeah they'll do that, lol - still love mine though!
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Old December 13th, 2012, 07:07 AM   #12
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Default Flat Spots: One of my Favorite Topics

Hey curtisxdavis,
I Love The Flat Spots Topic.

Some know them and Some KNOw_NOT and Swear it does not happen ever, ever, ever unless you are BAD

OK First Note on this topic. I love coming in blind...And I could be WRONG if ever so slightly.

OK Let's bring in NY-Buffalo Joe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB2KNocLTE0 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbyngnl7TO4

OK you really have to watch your performance on skate wheels. You are obviously very good as is a young art skater male I know. It is those fast 3 turns and other Art stuff that puts you above the rest of us. The slightest thing you do that seem natural yet not Art Skating can create a flat spot even on a good floor.

Anyway, I would buy some cheaper wheels then either the 101 or 103 and save the 101/103 for art stuff. No the 103A will not stop this..

OK, Next let's see the comments.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
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Old December 13th, 2012, 07:26 AM   #13
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Default Think it is Technique/Floor/Weight

Hi bolivia,

Matt (PJMariner) raises an interesting point.

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Originally Posted by bolivia View Post
o - o around this idea.
Yet I have seen Flat Spots in all wheel types. The Harder and the Softer (Derby). And I have seen many skaters skate including Derby Gals with NO Flat Spots ever.

My guess is that technique makes the flat spot, or a cruddy warped damaged floor, or a skater quite heavy for the wheel. And combinations of the above.

To me softer should flat spot easier, since it is soft.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave

P.S. Hey Matt if you see Adam (RollerKingdom) tomorrow at Skateland tell him my Right Rib Cage still hurts from that crash on 29Nov. Dang It. He was a hurting puppy too.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 07:31 AM   #14
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OK Dave I will bite.

Old mate in the video might know how to t stop without flatspotting a wheel but I wouldn't be using the edge of the wheels like that, it will cone them to some degree.

He does an OK hockey stop for someone who does not recommend them.

FYI I am one of the people who has never flatspotted a wheel and have done more hockey stops than most, including outdoors ones.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 11:28 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MANY_SkatingDave View Post
Hey curtisxdavis,
I Love The Flat Spots Topic.

Some know them and Some KNOw_NOT and Swear it does not happen ever, ever, ever unless you are BAD

OK First Note on this topic. I love coming in blind...And I could be WRONG if ever so slightly.

OK Let's bring in NY-Buffalo Joe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB2KNocLTE0 and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbyngnl7TO4

OK you really have to watch your performance on skate wheels. You are obviously very good as is a young art skater male I know. It is those fast 3 turns and other Art stuff that puts you above the rest of us. The slightest thing you do that seem natural yet not Art Skating can create a flat spot even on a good floor.

Anyway, I would buy some cheaper wheels then either the 101 or 103 and save the 101/103 for art stuff. No the 103A will not stop this..

OK, Next let's see the comments.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave

I do have a tendency to do stops on one or two wheels usually both inside wheels. The rinks i go to are often crowded so there are many times when I have to do a hard stop to avoid people. It wasn't a problem when I had toe stops but they get in the way lol. I have noticed that I've gotten a few flat spots from doing fast spins but they're usually nothing major.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HK47 View Post
When you pull a t-stop, if you keep your skates at a bit less than 90 degrees they'll turn while you brake, so no flat spots

Having a bit of action in your trucks helps for all kinds of stuff though, and might help avoid more flats ... as for Vanathanes coning, yeah they'll do that, lol - still love mine though!
I do t stops at around 130 degrees (something like this: _ /), I usually put most of my weight on my leading leg and only shift weight to the braking leg if I need more stopping power. The vanathanes were awesome but after i got used to the bones I couldn't go back lol. The bones felt like glue when I first used them.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 11:45 AM   #16
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Quote:
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I do t stops at around 130 degrees (something like this: _ /), I usually put most of my weight on my leading leg and only shift weight to the braking leg if I need more stopping power. The vanathanes were awesome but after i got used to the bones I couldn't go back lol. The bones felt like glue when I first used them.
Weird, what kinda floor you got there?
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Old December 14th, 2012, 11:44 PM   #17
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Default Me Too Never Flat Spotted - YET

Hi cass38a

Quote:
Originally Posted by cass38a View Post
OK Dave I will bite.

Old mate in the video might know how to t stop without flatspotting a wheel but I wouldn't be using the edge of the wheels like that, it will cone them to some degree. o - o He does an OK hockey stop for someone who does not recommend them. o - o FYI I am one of the people who has never flatspotted a wheel and have done more hockey stops than most, including outdoors ones.
OK Joe does kind of bring those wheels up high. Probably just for demonstration for the YouTube training video. I don't think it hurts coning since skating all by itself for hours cones wheels simply by their position on our skates. Yet I do agree that I and most I know do them with a lot less angle.

He still didn't do a screeching Hockey Stop which I was Rooting For Just to Hear IT. To be honest I don't think if he did one he would flat spot immediately to the notice point. Most I know do not flat spot on the first Hockey Stop, unless they are really GREAT. I mean really pull one from across the floor at speed, so your body goes at a deep angle, and then do it again and again.

Finally I too have never Flat Spotted, ever in decades of skating. Yet I do stay away from Hockey Stops and am careful with the T-Slow Downs. Even so I know piles (10-20) that have Flat Spotted and for some I really don't know why based on their skating style. Some never do a Hockey Stop or even a full T-Stop.

About the only thing I learned on SLF is that the Radar Caymans flat spot easy. Yet I am not sure if that is the wheel or the fact that it is the cheaper introductory Derby Skate and Derby teams force their players to have a Perfect T-Stop to pass a Level Test.

Yours in Skating, MA/NY Skating Dave
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Old December 16th, 2012, 05:07 PM   #18
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Weird, what kinda floor you got there?
Its a coated wood floor i don't know all of the specifics such as the wood type and what there using for the coat but its in good condition. Some days they forget to mop and i slide all over the place.

I did find a deal on a set of lightly [really lightly almost brand new] bones elite 103a whiskey wheels they're 62mm rather than my usual 57mm bones. They were only $40 so i couldn't say no . Took a little while to get used to them but it felt good they feel like they roll smoother but it may just be me finally not having a lot of flats spots. I say this because I managed to get a flat about 2 hours in to the session .

I'm coming to the conclusion that the elites may just not be for me. I'm going to try some softer wheels like HK47 said. On my list so far are the regular bones and the all americans; I've heard talk of the roll line wheels but I haven't seen any one to ride them.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 06:32 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curtisxdavis View Post
Its a coated wood floor i don't know all of the specifics such as the wood type and what there using for the coat but its in good condition. Some days they forget to mop and i slide all over the place.

I did find a deal on a set of lightly [really lightly almost brand new] bones elite 103a whiskey wheels they're 62mm rather than my usual 57mm bones. They were only $40 so i couldn't say no . Took a little while to get used to them but it felt good they feel like they roll smoother but it may just be me finally not having a lot of flats spots. I say this because I managed to get a flat about 2 hours in to the session .

I'm coming to the conclusion that the elites may just not be for me. I'm going to try some softer wheels like HK47 said. On my list so far are the regular bones and the all americans; I've heard talk of the roll line wheels but I haven't seen any one to ride them.
You need to befriend someone with a lathe, stat! FWIW bigger wheels don't feel the imperfections so much, really noticed when I played on 40mm Fomacs that that floor just felt hard and lumpy.

All American Plus comes in Urethane and Vanathane varieties, urethane gives more grip ... All American Dream are (much) more spendy and only come in Vanathane. I recon you might want to stick with Urethane wheels, though.

Some of the Roll Line wheels are made of plastic (Magnums for instance) and have a d-rating instead of a. I have no idea how they behave though, sorry. If you wanted to try something softer without blowing lots of cash you could try some SG Fame wheels, just to see if they flat.

Good luck!
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Old December 18th, 2012, 12:08 AM   #20
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Ok, thanks for all the input I'll post my trials with new wheels in the future.
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