S k a t e L o g     F o r u m
Inline Skating and Quad Roller Skating
Forum Hosts: Jessica Wright | Kathie Fry

FOLLOW US: Our Blog | Facebook | Twitter | Email    


Home - Forum Index - Africa Skating - Asia Skating - Europe Skating - Oceania Skating - Pan America Skating - Roller_Rinks - Friend the SkateLog Forum in Facebook - SkateLog Forum on Facebook

Forum Administrators: Jessica Wright and Kathie Fry | Email Us
Access code for buying and selling subforums: "skates"
How To Get a User Account and Posting Privileges in the SkateLog Forum
Use Google to Search the SkateLog Forum

Go Back   SkateLog Forum > Special Interest Skating Forums (sorted by number of posts) > Speed Skating Forum
FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Speed Skating Forum Most of the discussions in this forum will be about inline speed skating but discussions about ice speed skating and quad roller speed skating are also welcome.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old October 1st, 2014, 05:13 AM   #81
bjvircks
Major Trouble
 
bjvircks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Posts: 1,620
Default

bleedingedge... I think what you see that appears to be a large amount of jumping in your spreadsheet is coming about because the bib numbers in your "if"s don't align with this year's allocation across the various waves. I believe using the following gives more representative results. With this breakdown... in the Adv 3 start window I see 64 Adv 3 out of 74, with only 10 jumping. 6 from ADV 2 jumping down, 2 from Rec 1 jumping up and one each from Rec 2 & 3.

600 - 692 Adv 1
734 - 813 Adv 2
868 - 958 Adv 3
1000 - 1260 Rec 1
2000 - 2279 Rec 2
3000 - 3272 Rec 3
11000 - 11028 combined

I think I'll re-do the plot using the start time groupings
__________________
Quando omni flunkus, moritati
bjvircks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2014, 04:35 PM   #82
bleedingedge
Junior Member
 
bleedingedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Midlothian, Va
Posts: 22
Default

Okay, here's a better one.

I wrote a little program that scraped the results site.
bleedingedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2014, 05:00 PM   #83
bjvircks
Major Trouble
 
bjvircks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Posts: 1,620
Default

holy crap! that is super detail! I am so ignorant with regard to what can be automated. Thanks so much for making this available!


EDIT: something I saw earlier and again today... do you think Steven Cimino actually jumped the gun by 2 seconds or just got too close to the line before the start?
__________________
Quando omni flunkus, moritati

Last edited by bjvircks; October 1st, 2014 at 05:11 PM. Reason: question
bjvircks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2014, 05:21 PM   #84
bjvircks
Major Trouble
 
bjvircks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Posts: 1,620
Default

Hmmmm... Paul Meyering bib 683 Adv 1 and overall winner is not in latest spreadsheet.
__________________
Quando omni flunkus, moritati
bjvircks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 1st, 2014, 06:12 PM   #85
bleedingedge
Junior Member
 
bleedingedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Midlothian, Va
Posts: 22
Default

Sorry about that; I must have dropped that first row when I was playing with the field names. Anyway, I manually added him back in.
bleedingedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2014, 03:09 PM   #86
bleedingedge
Junior Member
 
bleedingedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Midlothian, Va
Posts: 22
Default

And, just in case anyone wants to play with this, here's 2013.
bleedingedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 2nd, 2014, 07:00 PM   #87
bjvircks
Major Trouble
 
bjvircks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Posts: 1,620
Default

absolutely fascinating to see "winners" several skaters behind the first to cross the line.
__________________
Quando omni flunkus, moritati
bjvircks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2014, 03:58 AM   #88
bjvircks
Major Trouble
 
bjvircks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Posts: 1,620
Default

here is a plot with wave groupings established by start times rather than bib numbers. the plot looks very similar to the 1st one, but there are slight changes. Thanks bleedingedge for making this possible!

__________________
Quando omni flunkus, moritati
bjvircks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2014, 04:28 PM   #89
bleedingedge
Junior Member
 
bleedingedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Midlothian, Va
Posts: 22
Default

Thanks for that visual! 2014 was my second go at NSIM (2013 was first). I skated wave A3 and finished with the main pack. My question is:

Which wave should I start with next year?
  • At the end, I felt like I could have put a little more into it, but for whatever reason I wasn't confident enough to try and lead a break.
  • There were many skaters in A2 and A1 with the same time as mine.
  • I trained for a few weeks this past summer with one of the A1 winners, and I'm just not there. If I was in A1, the lead guys would "walk away" from me and I would be in a second or third pack. Is it okay to start in a wave where I know from the outset I wouldn't be able to stick with the leaders?

Don't get me wrong, I train year-round so I'm hoping to be better next year, but I'm also trying to be realistic.
bleedingedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2014, 07:11 PM   #90
bjvircks
Major Trouble
 
bjvircks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Posts: 1,620
Default

In a lot of cases I think it is more about what's in your head and less about what's in your legs. With each move upwards in wave the requirements of skill and nerve get higher, perhaps more than physical requirements go up. It takes nerve and experience to draft closely for extended time as the advanced waves need to do well. It takes foresight and mental preparation to be able to "see" how things are unfolding and then know how to act/react. Sure... physical conditioning does play a very large role, but without skating smart it takes an awful lot of power to do well. No doubt at all that you'd do well in Adv 2 if next year's race is similar.
__________________
Quando omni flunkus, moritati
bjvircks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2014, 07:52 PM   #91
WJCIV
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: London
Posts: 1,086
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedingedge View Post
with one of the A1 winners, and I'm just not there.
There's also a difference between one of the A1 skaters and 40-60. Drafting is a huge deal, and if you don't overextend yourself trying to lead too much or stay in the back where the accordion affect wears you out you may find you aren't as far behind them as you think. Maybe you'll even get lucky and there will be a strong headwind.

The same advice does not hold at the pro level. There are a lot of breakaways there.
__________________
You don't improve by training until it hurts; you improve by training after it hurts.

I love the phrase "I quit". It beats more of my opponents than I do.
WJCIV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2014, 09:04 PM   #92
theDonnybrook
Just trying to keep up
 
theDonnybrook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Schaumburg, Illinois
Posts: 2,005
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bleedingedge View Post
Thanks for that visual! 2014 was my second go at NSIM (2013 was first). I skated wave A3 and finished with the main pack. My question is:

Which wave should I start with next year?
  • At the end, I felt like I could have put a little more into it, but for whatever reason I wasn't confident enough to try and lead a break.
  • There were many skaters in A2 and A1 with the same time as mine.
  • I trained for a few weeks this past summer with one of the A1 winners, and I'm just not there. If I was in A1, the lead guys would "walk away" from me and I would be in a second or third pack. Is it okay to start in a wave where I know from the outset I wouldn't be able to stick with the leaders?

Don't get me wrong, I train year-round so I'm hoping to be better next year, but I'm also trying to be realistic.
I agree with BJVirks that you would do fine in Advanced Wave 2, but enough training and skating in a pace line could get you into a position to race in Advanced Wave 1. There were a number of people who fell off the line in Advanced Wave 1 this year, myself included. If you feel like that is where you should be, sign up for Advanced Wave 1. At the very least, you will get the feel for the race in that wave, and know how best to prepare for 2016.
__________________
2012 Bont Z, 3PF 7050, ILQ9 Pro, Matter G13 110mm F1
inlinepaceline.wordpress.com
theDonnybrook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 3rd, 2014, 10:58 PM   #93
bjvircks
Major Trouble
 
bjvircks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Posts: 1,620
Default

While you can build power, stamina and form by skating on your own or with one or two other skaters... I don't think there is any way to develop the 'street smarts' needed to do well in Adv 1 without just doing a few races. In Adv 3 the overall atmosphere is a lot more relaxed and easy going. The start is not as urgent and folks give themselves a bit of room to move out. This was my first time in Adv 1 and I was surprised at how compact I needed to stay during the start to keep from clicking skates with everyone (and I'm used to tight starts on ice short track). If you are not aware that's the way things start you could get rattled early and miss catching the lead pack.

Anyway... there is no substitute for just getting out there and doing it. If next year is mild like this year you might do well in Adv 1. But if next year has another brutal and relentless headwind you'll need mental toughness and superior drafting skills to hang with Adv 1. But so what if you drop off and join up with a later pack... nobody is going to take you behind the barn and shoot you.
__________________
Quando omni flunkus, moritati
bjvircks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old October 11th, 2014, 02:33 AM   #94
bleedingedge
Junior Member
 
bleedingedge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Midlothian, Va
Posts: 22
Default

I really appreciate that advice. I think you're absolutely right about the start, and that is my weakest part right now. I'm inclined to sign up for a1 next year, and counting on that part about not being shot behind the barn.
bleedingedge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 3rd, 2015, 06:27 AM   #95
ese002
Senior Member
 
ese002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 364
Default

I thought I would bump this old thread because the entry fee goes up on June 1 and some/many of us are starting to think it time to register.

And yet, at this point there is something extremely odd about the wave placement table.

Nobody who raced A1 in 2014 actually qualifies to race A1 in 2015 based on their 2014 time. Not a single one. The fastest non-elite came in at 1 hour 22 minutes. The wave A1 cutoff is 1:18.99. This is plainly visible from bjvircks' chart but it is easy to cross check with the raw data.

I'm not sure what to make of this. Originally, I thought it was the web site not being fully updated yet. But it has never been fixed.

Maybe it is an error. But it has been 7 months. Surely, someone who have brought it to the organizers attention in that time. I would have, but I don't really know how.

Maybe they're trying to get rid of A1? Restrict it to Elite drop-outs?

My inclination is to sign up for A1 anyway even though my time last year questionably qualifies if reasonable cutoffs are used. I did not race in 2012 so that's no help.

Last edited by ese002; May 3rd, 2015 at 06:33 AM. Reason: Left out mentioned of 2012 time.
ese002 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old May 3rd, 2015, 03:12 PM   #96
bjvircks
Major Trouble
 
bjvircks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Posts: 1,620
Default

Hi ese002! I had looked this over before and saw I didn't qualify for where I thought I wanted to be. If you look at 2012 times it makes a little more sense.



__________________
Quando omni flunkus, moritati
bjvircks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 7th, 2015, 04:20 PM   #97
theDonnybrook
Just trying to keep up
 
theDonnybrook's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Schaumburg, Illinois
Posts: 2,005
Default

Relying on 2012 times doesn't make sense either. Isn't that the year with the massive tail wind? Shoot, I was thinking of signing up soon, this throws a wrench in the whole thing.
__________________
2012 Bont Z, 3PF 7050, ILQ9 Pro, Matter G13 110mm F1
inlinepaceline.wordpress.com
theDonnybrook is offline   Reply With Quote
Old May 29th, 2015, 09:25 PM   #98
ese002
Senior Member
 
ese002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 364
Default

I responded to a Facebook post from the organizers of the event, for lack of a better idea.
Quote:
Me: Are the wave thresholds going to be updated for 2014? The posted cutoffs are based on 2012 which had much faster times than 2014. As it stands, no one outside of the elites qualifies for wave A1 based on their 2014 time.

NorthShore Inline Marathon, Inc: It's self seeding, use your best time.
Not exactly informative. I guess it means we are on our own. Without useful guidance, I will be signing up for A1. Price goes up June 1.
ese002 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2017, 08:37 PM   #99
a-cut-above
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 11
Default Advice

I saw this older thread. I will be skating in my first NSIM on Sept.16. Any advice?
a-cut-above is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 28th, 2017, 10:58 PM   #100
ese002
Senior Member
 
ese002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 364
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by a-cut-above View Post
I saw this older thread. I will be skating in my first NSIM on Sept.16. Any advice?
What is your context? Have you raced before or is this your first marathon?

What area that people often mess up is wave selection. With large packs, a point to point course, and smooth pavement (not always, but definitely this year) you easily shave ten minutes off the time you achieved on a slower course.
ese002 is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 07:14 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.