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Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

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Old June 29th, 2014, 01:27 PM   #21
Derrick
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Default Well I did the Mohawk in session several times

Well that is what I actually practiced at home. So that was really good. I've started my dry Waltz jumps today. I'll try to take some video this week, make sure i got it right.
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Old June 30th, 2014, 01:16 AM   #22
larryoracing
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Smile Well Derrick its been an experience to follow your skating.

I tried to do a waltz jump in the CW rotation. That was an experience. I learned it will make me a better skater to learn to jump in both directions.

Keep up the good work.

Larry O
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Old June 30th, 2014, 12:17 PM   #23
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Derrick: Its great that you're doing these jumps keep it up!

I'll describe my (poor) jump and perhaps you can relate to some of the mistakes I do!

My Waltz Jump is pretty poor, but I think the basic framework is there.
I go from a LOF, swing and lift my right leg, jump CCW, fold my arms, land on ROB, re-stretch arms.

The problem comes from my free leg position on landing. It usually swings and stays at the back, instead of landing with it in front, and then nicely moving it to the back for presenting. The other problem is my subconscious compulsion to look at my feet on landing.

The combination of the position on landing and looking down very often makes me nearly go down forwards. Waltz jump to push up combination!
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Old June 30th, 2014, 01:33 PM   #24
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Derrick: Its great that you're doing these jumps keep it up!

I'll describe my (poor) jump and perhaps you can relate to some of the mistakes I do!

My Waltz Jump is pretty poor, but I think the basic framework is there.
I go from a LOF, swing and lift my right leg, jump CCW, fold my arms, land on ROB, re-stretch arms.

The problem comes from my free leg position on landing. It usually swings and stays at the back, instead of landing with it in front, and then nicely moving it to the back for presenting. The other problem is my subconscious compulsion to look at my feet on landing.

The combination of the position on landing and looking down very often makes me nearly go down forwards. Waltz jump to push up combination!
That's very encouraging. It's nice to know others are at right about my skill level. I'm stronger CW, but have the same issues.
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Old June 30th, 2014, 02:20 PM   #25
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Take a look at this demonstration of the Waltz Jump. It explains it really well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmyYCupvYmY

Incidentally, his "poor execution" is exactly what I do! Oh dear....
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Old July 1st, 2014, 05:27 AM   #26
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Smile Memram a few comments..LOL! Take them with a grain of salt.

My Waltz Jump is pretty poor, but I think the basic framework is there.


I go from a LOF, swing and lift my right leg,


Do not swing the leg and gain angular momentum…ie… the around motion…like throwing the leg into a circle. Don’t do that. It will have a tendency to swing the top of the body like a wobbling top and it’s only natural that the left leg will want to swing around in a big arc and not stay in front of you, so you can't land with the left leg in front.


If you did figures on the black big circles and did a RIF edge- three turn-ROB edge, keeping the left leg in front after the RIF-ROB three turn this would be the correct feeling.


I’m no teacher, just trying to help out…LOL!


jump CCW, fold my arms, land on ROB, re-stretch arms.


The problem comes from my free leg position on landing.


It usually swings and stays at the back



The idea is to jump the waltz jump square to the direction of travel. You are trying to keep the body square at all times…ie.. facing directly forward. At the last instant you do a three turn in the air, with the right hip, not the left hip swinging around.

If you try to swing the left leg around to complete the Ĺ turn it will automatically want to carry you around and end up in back of you and not in front of you, which you don't want.


, instead of landing with it in front, and then nicely moving it to the back for presenting.


So the trick is when you jump, kind of back your ASS into the jump while you jump forward, but don’t use the left leg to swing your jump around. Always keep the left leg back/forward when landing. This movement is actually the “check” in the landing. Rick would call it using you hips and not your arms to stop the rotation..ie..the check in the jump that stops the rotation.

The other problem is my subconscious compulsion to look at my feet on landing.


Don’t ever look at your feet. Practice off skates and know where your feet are at all times.

Looking at your feet promotes leaning over, forward and brings the left leg back to balance the body out in my opinion...like a teeter-todder. Get the picture?

The combination of the position on landing and looking down very often makes me nearly go down forwards. Waltz jump to push up combination!


Sincerley,

Larry Otani


P.S. Just my two cents....hope it helps. I know it helps me just talking about it. Thankyou...LOL!
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Old July 1st, 2014, 08:20 AM   #27
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Thanks Larry, that makes a lot of sense!

I'll have a go at this again tonight (its supposed to be figures tonight, but I'll pop a few jumps when nobody is looking!)

Until now, I've been taking off from a pretty deep edge, so if I understand you correctly, I should flatten that edge a lot, and upon take off, I should bring the free leg up and through, instead of swinging around?

Its so interesting to talk about these things. It really makes you think about what you're doing!
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Old July 1st, 2014, 11:59 AM   #28
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Smile Good feedback Memran!

Until now, I've been taking off from a pretty deep edge

Wrong, wrong , wrong. I definitely donít take off from a deep edge. I take off from a flat edgeÖLOL!

The following is a quote from Big Rick..LOL..It applies to the waltz jump although he is talking about the axel.


sometimes people press the outside edge too much on the axle takeoff, try pressing your big toe, suppose to be off a flat even though its rarely done.
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, so if I understand you correctly, I should flatten that edge a lot,

Yes, yes, yes take of from a flat edgeÖLOL!

and upon take off,

Yes, the more you learn to jump off skates and put some effort in this jump the better you will know what Iím talking about. I make a pretty big deal with the waltz jump because I will use this same take off for the axel.

I should bring the free leg up and through,

Yes, yes, yes. This is the hard part or the interesting part. When you bring your leg through and out, your left arm will be out and leading. This left arm actually blocks the rotation or slows it down. You are naturally going to put some spin into the jump CCW when you bring that right side, leg through, but the tendency should be to control or stop the rotation with the left side, left arm position.

This is actually the check motion. As you jump, You are actually stopping the rotation at the same time and and turn that right side into the stopped/blocked left side body/left arm. This blocking action with the right side running into the blocked left side, is the check motionÖieÖthe motion that stops the rotation. You need to get a little bit of height to pull off this maneuver and complete all this stuff in the air before landing on the Right OB foot/edge.

instead of swinging around?

Yes. You will always be swinging the right side around, but you want to initate that jump as square as you can at take off. You want to jump out., trying to land on the ROB. But you need good body position, like on a figure circle, at least at the apex of the jump, before you come down and bend over/at the waist if you have to. A good jumper will try to stay erect and keep the bending at the waist to a minimum.


! Its so interesting to talk about these things. It really makes you think about what you're doing


Exactly and thankyou for listening to me, because Iím trying to learn from you and Rick.

Larry O
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Old July 1st, 2014, 05:20 PM   #29
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Default jumping out

You say to jump out. Should I take a step or two on floor practice to get the feel of jumping out. I sure get a lot more height that way.
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Old July 1st, 2014, 11:44 PM   #30
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A waltz jump off of skates is not difficult and very do-able. The advice given is good. easy on the edge and leg straight through.

Did you know that the waltz jump is one of the most common setups for a Loop jump? (the loop is like a mapes but without the toe off and the free leg stays in front from takeoff to landing. The waltz then becomes the setup to get into position for the loop.



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You say to jump out. Should I take a step or two on floor practice to get the feel of jumping out. I sure get a lot more height that way.
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 12:57 AM   #31
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Smile You got the idea Derrick!

Derrick we donít want to make the jump harder than it is.

One of the worst things I can do or anybody is to get stiff when we jump. In reality the jump should be real relaxed.

When Iím practicing off skates I will step onto my right foot, then left foot, then throw the right leg forward for the waltz jump.

You say to jump out. Should I take a step or two on floor practice to get the feel of jumping out. Iím sure get a lot more height that way.


Yes, that is what Iím talking about. Some how the little step before the jump gets the body ready for the jump. The point is to be relaxed when you jump. Get the feeling of jumping into the air, the turn in the air and the landing. This very relaxed motion is what make the jump flow, become easy and have some continuity.

Did you know that the waltz jump is one of the most common setups for a Loop jump? (the loop is like a mapes but without the toe off and the free leg stays in front from takeoff to landing. The waltz then becomes the setup to get into position for the loop


I have been using the waltz jump as a intro to the mapes jump. It really helps.

Also last night, I was using the waltz jump as an intro to the loop jump, but there is something very weird happening there. Before I even land the waltz jump, Iím already jumping the loop jump. Actually the landing of the waltz jump and the take off for the loop happen almost instantaneously. If you wait to land the waltz jump, it will be too late to take off for the loop jump. Your timing will be off and you will never be able to do the loop jump. You have a very small window to get that perfect body position to take off from a waltz into a loop jump.

Some people also use three turns to get ready for the loop jump. So much of these jumps is being in the right position and your reflexes jumping at the right instant to get the jump off. That is why we practice off skates to try to get some feeling for the jump before you do it on skates.

Larry O and good luck!
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Old July 2nd, 2014, 03:24 AM   #32
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Default Well casting myself out into space is more fun

At least on the carpet it is.

I was really trying to go straight up snd straght down and wondering why I couldn't get any height. This is much more natural. I supose the big danger is landing on the toes and testing the wrist guards again. I'll try to get video of my dry tests to make sure I got it.
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Old July 3rd, 2014, 07:48 PM   #33
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Default I got some video of ny dry waltz jump

I did it at work when no one was looking, it's a bit lame. I would like to get some better video before pushing it up.
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Old July 5th, 2014, 01:51 PM   #34
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Default Keep threatening to put up video so here it is

Welcome to the breeze way. Sorry about the atire it's work outside day at my house.

Am I getting closer to the waltz jump in this dry run?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwykQQRNZSg
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Old July 5th, 2014, 09:06 PM   #35
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Derrick,
That's actually pretty good. The elements were there that make a waltz jump and not too bad.

A small note that doesn't affect you right now but will as you progress. you have extra movements that can later cause a balance issue or a counter balance issue. Example: You are moving your arms too much. Also lower the arms slightly and don't swing them, just move them. In other words, you want to keep the arms in frame with your torso.

Take a look at some of the quick vids I did. You will notice very little movement in my arms and that they stayed framed. The most you will see is that they move in and out together for rotation to speed up or slow down, but never moved to fast. The arms not only aid in rotation, they also aid in stabilization. For now it won't affect your waltz jump but it will affect full rotation and more difficult jumps.




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Welcome to the breeze way. Sorry about the atire it's work outside day at my house.

Am I getting closer to the waltz jump in this dry run?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwykQQRNZSg
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Old July 6th, 2014, 10:38 AM   #36
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Smile Derrick it looks good. It hard to tell if there is any bad faults.

My home computer is not as good as my work so the video does not catch all the smooth motion, but it looks excellent.

As you know and I'm getting to know doing it on skates is a lot harder than off, so try to imagine when doing it off skates that you have 10 lbs of wt on your feet. That should change your attitude a little when jumping off skates.

If anything I think you will find when you land with skates on you are going to bend that left leg LOB a lot more on the landing. And consequently when you take off, the ROF knee will probably bend a lot more when you do it on skates.


Thanks for the video. I realize I will have to practice differently off skates than I do when jumping with them on. It's just a lot different and practicing off skates will help when I finally get the courage to perform the jump with skates on.

Sincerely,

Larry O
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Old July 6th, 2014, 02:17 PM   #37
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not bad,,,,soon you will do it like that on skates,,,its easier to jump on skates if your confident
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Old September 16th, 2015, 12:40 AM   #38
Derrick
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Default Well like the proverbial frog I did a Waltz jump

So this post is three years old and I'm finally doing the waltz jump. Psychologicaligically i just tell myself. I'm going to do a super cheaty three turn and lift my whole foot. The I catch the cheat with the other foot and it turns into a waltz jump. That might not realky be the best way to learn.
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Old September 16th, 2015, 11:47 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by Derrick View Post
So this post is three years old and I'm finally doing the waltz jump. Psychologicaligically i just tell myself. I'm going to do a super cheaty three turn and lift my whole foot. The I catch the cheat with the other foot and it turns into a waltz jump. That might not realky be the best way to learn.
if that works good for u,,,would have to see it.
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Old September 27th, 2015, 12:36 AM   #40
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Default Continued to practice the waltz jump

I got some help from the owner of East Lake Sating Center who is an art skater. Well at lest he used to be. I finally can lift the right knee high without the timidity I was experiencing. Still not always landing as I would like, but I don't have any more fear of making many attempts. Just a matter of practice now.

Of course, it doesn't look strenuous, but attempt after attempt makes you pretty tired.

When I first started my skating return I had no intention of jumping at all. That is until Ol' Larry somehow got the mistaken impression that I was going to try it and tried to talk me out of it. Thanks Larry, wherever you are.

Now I'm starting to think about a mapes. Perhaps it will take me another three year to get enough courage to do that one. But that one looks really cool, as it takes more floor to pull it off. I'm afraid of stabbing my toe stop on that one, so I don't even do a half-mapes yet.
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