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Artistic Skating Forum Discussions about any topic related to artistic roller skating including quad artistic skating, inline figure skating, pairs, dance, synchronized skating, and show skating.

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Old June 21st, 2014, 02:53 PM   #1
Derrick
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Default Waltz jump take off

I know I'm all over the board trying to learn everyting at once, but it's so fun!

Ok the take off. On the nice static friction on the floor I can get plenty of rotation for the Waltz Jump. But on wheels going slow on ROB I get just enough lift on the back wheels to allow the toes to splip back just enough to kill my jump to about 150 degrees rather than 180. I did not start from a mohak, would that give me enough to get that 30 degrees. I can jump harder with practice and pull it off that way. But perhaps someone knows how to keep the toes from slipping back. The landing is real good and I like the change in arc from arcing left to arcing right due to the edges.
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Old June 21st, 2014, 07:43 PM   #2
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Default Speed is your friend

Derrick,
It sounds crazy but speed is your friend in many ways. Go slow and fall hard. you have to force yourself to go as fast as you can and still hold a steady edge even when you are moving your torso. Do not go faster than that. Then go that speed and hold your frame with dynamic tension. Do everything with deliberation. Think of the jump in your mind over and over till your mind can do it without thought then do it.




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Originally Posted by Derrick View Post
I know I'm all over the board trying to learn everyting at once, but it's so fun!

Ok the take off. On the nice static friction on the floor I can get plenty of rotation for the Waltz Jump. But on wheels going slow on ROB I get just enough lift on the back wheels to allow the toes to splip back just enough to kill my jump to about 150 degrees rather than 180. I did not start from a mohak, would that give me enough to get that 30 degrees. I can jump harder with practice and pull it off that way. But perhaps someone knows how to keep the toes from slipping back. The landing is real good and I like the change in arc from arcing left to arcing right due to the edges.
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Old June 22nd, 2014, 10:04 AM   #3
larryoracing
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Smile Derrick, I was trying to figure out your problem.

a) A couple of weeks ago I tried to do an axel and I slipped off my front wheels, where they wanted to "slip back". I have not tried that jump in a while, but I want to go back to grippier wheels so I don't slip on the take off.

Maybe you need wheels that grip more?

b) I could say jump harder, but I think your problem is grip in the wheels.

Larry O

P.S. If I was doing and axel I would say jump higher and farther.
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Old June 25th, 2014, 07:03 PM   #4
Derrick
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Default Not jumping off ROF

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Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post
a) A couple of weeks ago I tried to do an axel and I slipped off my front wheels, where they wanted to "slip back". I have not tried that jump in a while, but I want to go back to grippier wheels so I don't slip on the take off.

Maybe you need wheels that grip more?

b) I could say jump harder, but I think your problem is grip in the wheels.

Larry O

P.S. If I was doing and axel I would say jump higher and farther.
Found that I failed to jump off the edge, I was on the center. This and I needed to jump a bit harder, a little more knee bend. Also, I need a bit more speed, which I'm starting to work up to.

I found even on a straight two foot jump turn, starting off the edges helps rotation.

I improved my home take off area, I have concrete starting at a breakfast area through the kitchen and into the dining area giving me 40 feet straight shot. I had a small impediment that I removed (someone tried to nail a threshold into concrete). So I can come up to reasonable speed to waltz. I'm removing living room carpet as well ( it's worn, not just to skate on). But that will give me 73feet! Were not well off (well world standard, I live like a king) but I love my large concrete house.

I got a webcam setup, so I can post a video and get better feedback. Even I wonder what I look like. A year ago I did a little bunny hop on skates, and my oldest said, "You jump like a 4-year-old". I've improved but I don't know what I really look like.
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Old June 25th, 2014, 10:23 PM   #5
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Default Video: Opinion: Any hope for a proper waltz jump out of this?

http://youtu.be/J7F6so8XyCc

I'm going as fast as I can without removing more carpet and threading that needle everytime. Saturday is rink day.

Darn look quick
I accidentally have audio and it has Michel Jackson in the background. They'll probably pull it.
If they do, I'll remove the audio and re-upload.

Ah ha, I changed the background music to Handle perhaps youtube will keep it on. Unless they just check the original audio.

Geez I had one, forgot to hit record, two left a chair on the way, 3 baby sitting and the client got into view no permission to send her video up, 4 moved camera, 5. finally got video and had copy-written music in it.

Last edited by Derrick; June 25th, 2014 at 10:59 PM. Reason: it's there and error in url
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Old June 25th, 2014, 11:01 PM   #6
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Derrick,

Not bad, but I hate to tell you that the jump you are doing is called a Mohawk jump. Still not bad learning it on your own. Not bad at all. All that needs now is some clean up on your posture and body position and it will look great.


If you were to just step instead of jump it would be a Mohawk turn. The waltz jump would be to take the free leg (the one that is in the air and that you will be landing on after you do the jump) should swing forward and you rotate around that leg and land on it. For the Mohawk jump you leave it behind and jump on it. Still not bad. To bad you didn't show your face. It would be nice to see the person behind the name.

Thanks for the vid.


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Originally Posted by Derrick View Post
http://youtu.be/J7F6so8XyCc

I'm going as fast as I can without removing more carpet and threading that needle everytime. Saturday is rink day.

Darn look quick
I accidentally have audio and it has Michel Jackson in the background. They'll probably pull it.
If they do, I'll remove the audio and reupload.
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Old June 26th, 2014, 01:14 AM   #7
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Default Thanks -- sorry for my terms being wrong

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Derrick,

Not bad, but I hate to tell you that the jump you are doing is called a Mohawk jump. Still not bad learning it on your own. Not bad at all. All that needs now is some clean up on your posture and body position and it will look great.


If you were to just step instead of jump it would be a Mohawk turn. The waltz jump would be to take the free leg (the one that is in the air and that you will be landing on after you do the jump) should swing forward and you rotate around that leg and land on it. For the Mohawk jump you leave it behind and jump on it. Still not bad. To bad you didn't show your face. It would be nice to see the person behind the name.

Thanks for the vid.
So, if I was to do a waltz jump, at what point should my balancing foot be when the performing leg leaves the ground?

So much to learn. But so much fun.
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Old June 26th, 2014, 01:30 AM   #8
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Default I'll do some Mohawk's at the rink

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Derrick,

Not bad, but I hate to tell you that the jump you are doing is called a Mohawk jump. Still not bad learning it on your own. Not bad at all. All that needs now is some clean up on your posture and body position and it will look great.


If you were to just step instead of jump it would be a Mohawk turn. The waltz jump would be to take the free leg (the one that is in the air and that you will be landing on after you do the jump) should swing forward and you rotate around that leg and land on it. For the Mohawk jump you leave it behind and jump on it. Still not bad. To bad you didn't show your face. It would be nice to see the person behind the name.

Thanks for the vid.
I'll try the waltz jump there. There just isn't quite enough room in that dining room to get the edge and attempt to swing the leg. I can get some speed but I have to go through a doorway before I can perform anything. Then there's stopping. I really didn't know I could stop on one toe stop backwards, until I accidentally did it, then it was easy.

BTW, I found it better, to go RIF and switch to ROF before the jump, I get a better edge. Is this proper?
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Old June 26th, 2014, 06:35 AM   #9
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Smile Derrick I'm so confused now, but

if I get you right, you want to be skating forward on the RIF edge..ie... leaning left, then you want to lean to the right on the same Right Foot. Now you are going forward on the ROF edge. Next you will throw the the left free leg forward and land on the Left Foot going backwards...ie...on the LOB edge.

This would be waltz jump in the CW rotation. It's perfectly legal, just a little different.

It's OK. I do some wierd stuff too.


Larry O

P.S. when I do a waltz jump in the CCW direction. I will be skating forward on the RIF edge. Switch feet to the ROF, throw the right free leg forward and land on the ROB edge going backwards. This is different too, but who really cares???? Jump to your hearts content, don't fall down and don't get hurt.


Trust me falling down is not fun and will make you want to quit jumping. So the key is not to fall, or limit it. So far in the last three months I have only fallen a couple times. In the mean time my legs have gotten real strong. My torn ligaments are healing and I'm getting better. As I throw more and more jumps I will work very hard at figuring out ways to practice for the jump on and off skates before actually attemping the actrual jump.

As an Example how many people practice the single mapes, by just jumping in the air with both skates, going backwards, no rotation and just land on the ROB? I have done this about 10 times before I threw a single mapes. This little exercise is really helpful. If you can do this little jump, you will not be able to stand up and do a single rotation mapes.

Break down a jump into it component parts. Practice each part with different exercises on and off skates. That could be a dance move, a figure move, a stretching move. Now practice those same moves on skates and get proficient. Now, put all those moves together and do the jump. I will guarantee you will fall 80% less.

I should of fell maybe 10 times before I learned a single mapes and waltz jump. I fell once on the waltz jump and zero times on the mapes. But I have been practicing everyday for these two jumps for 3 months.
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Old June 26th, 2014, 09:20 AM   #10
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Larry,
I too would jump off of 2 and sometimes 1 foot without initiating rotation and land on the proper edge. I would also practice the snap without leaving the floor. The snap would be in slow motion and with dynamic tension and I would monitor my body position to make sure nothing else was being affected.

Jim
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Old June 26th, 2014, 09:22 AM   #11
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Derrick,
As you can see, the vid helps us direct your learning. The info from Larry was good. I usually don't switch edges, I just get on an outside forward edge and jump but doing it Larry's way is also very acceptable. Keep the vids flowing.

Jim
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Old June 26th, 2014, 10:47 AM   #12
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try doing the jumps outside on the grass with no skates to get the feeling and positions. easy to do singles that way and some doubles,,,very hard to do triples and 2 axle that way. you can also do it in the house on the carpet or hardwood, easier on the legs that way.
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Old June 26th, 2014, 10:53 AM   #13
Derrick
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Default I'll do some more video as I improve

Quote:
Originally Posted by larryoracing View Post
if I get you right, you want to be skating forward on the RIF edge..ie... leaning left, then you want to lean to the right on the same Right Foot. Now you are going forward on the ROF edge. Next you will throw the the left free leg forward and land on the Left Foot going backwards...ie...on the LOB edge.

This would be waltz jump in the CW rotation. It's perfectly legal, just a little different.
Yes that's it, I get a deeper edge if I sway. Also, it gives me a chance to get my arms out and get the feel for balancing on the right foot. It seems throwing the leg is where I really need to work.

So for my LOB landing practice, I just start on two feet, 1/2 spin CW to the one foot landing.

I'll try to do more video but my IB upright spin is embarrasing.
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Old June 26th, 2014, 10:58 AM   #14
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Default I will do that

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try doing the jumps outside on the grass with no skates to get the feeling and positions. easy to do singles that way and some doubles,,,very hard to do triples and 2 axle that way. you can also do it in the house on the carpet or hardwood, easier on the legs that way.
I also do the jumps on the floor at work, when no one is looking
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Old June 26th, 2014, 11:41 AM   #15
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I also do the jumps on the floor at work, when no one is looking
that works lol
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Old June 26th, 2014, 11:56 AM   #16
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Smile Derrick we have something in common.

I also do the jumps on the floor at work, when no one is looking

Tonight I practiced the axel off skates at my work parking lot. Everybody went home and I decided to practice in this huge, freshly paved parking lot. It was beautiful...LOL!


Yes that's it, I get a deeper edge if I sway. Also, it gives me a chance to get my arms out and get the feel for balancing on the right foot. It seems throwing the leg is where I really need to work.

Derrick, let me give you a hint. I just learned this tonight off skates and have not tried this on skates, but maybe it will work for you. As you skate on the RIF and switch to the ROF, cocked the left shoulder back, like a gun. As you get ready to jump, your left shoulder is like the trigger on the gun, bring the the left foot back at the same time and get ready to jump. As the left foot starts to come forward and is at the back of the right skate, jump with the left leg and let that left shoulder/ trigger accelerate and move forward and rotate in the CW direction, quickly, like letting the rubber band in a sling shot shoot forward. This little cocking of the left shoulder and timing the left leg jump as it come forward next to the right foot will give you all the rotation and the height to get that 1/2 rotation on the waltz jump. Concentrate on landing on the LOB edge/left foot. This is really important so you don't fall down.

These two little tricks, the cocking of the left shoulder back and jumping when the Left foot just reaches the ROF foot, is what made me be able to complete 1.5 revolutions/axel off skates tonight.

Good Luck.....Larry O
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Old June 26th, 2014, 12:02 PM   #17
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I also do the jumps on the floor at work, when no one is looking

Tonight I practiced the axel off skates at my work parking lot. Everybody went home and I decided to practice in this huge, freshly paved parking lot. It was beautiful...LOL!


Yes that's it, I get a deeper edge if I sway. Also, it gives me a chance to get my arms out and get the feel for balancing on the right foot. It seems throwing the leg is where I really need to work.

Derrick, let me give you a hint. I just learned this tonight off skates and have not tried this on skates, but maybe it will work for you. As you skate on the RIF and switch to the ROF, cocked the left shoulder back, like a gun. As you get ready to jump, your left shoulder is like the trigger on the gun, bring the the left foot back at the same time and get ready to jump. As the left foot starts to come forward and is at the back of the right skate, jump with the left leg and let that left shoulder/ trigger accelerate and move forward and rotate in the CW direction, quickly, like letting the rubber band in a sling shot shoot forward. This little cocking of the left shoulder and timing the left leg jump as it come forward next to the right foot will give you all the rotation and the height to get that 1/2 rotation on the waltz jump. Concentrate on landing on the LOB edge/left foot. This is really important so you don't fall down.

These two little tricks, the cocking of the left shoulder back and jumping when the Left foot just reaches the ROF foot, is what made me be able to complete 1.5 revolutions/axel off skates tonight.

Good Luck.....Larry O
sometimes people press the outside edge too much on the axle takeoff, try pressing your big toe, suppose to be off a flat even though its rarely done.
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Old June 27th, 2014, 09:36 AM   #18
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I also do the jumps on the floor at work, when no one is looking
At my duaghter's school there is another girl who does ice solo dance. One day while waiting to go into class they decdied to compare steps so did side-by-side Euopean waltzes "dry" (that is in shoes on a normal floor).
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Old June 27th, 2014, 10:35 AM   #19
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At my duaghter's school there is another girl who does ice solo dance. One day while waiting to go into class they decdied to compare steps so did side-by-side Euopean waltzes "dry" (that is in shoes on a normal floor).
I'm no kid but I am also getting bolder about worrying about if people see me practice dry or stretch. Everyone knows I skate, if they catch me that's ok. It may be a bit distracting during a meeting though.
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Old June 27th, 2014, 10:42 AM   #20
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At my duaghter's school there is another girl who does ice solo dance. One day while waiting to go into class they decdied to compare steps so did side-by-side Euopean waltzes "dry" (that is in shoes on a normal floor).
Moly u left us hanging,,,,,what was the results,,,were they the same or what,,,,geez?? lol
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