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Old December 31st, 2017, 07:55 PM   #41
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Hey Mort. That reverse hockey stop is really impressive. I'm going to work on it during the next session.
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Old December 31st, 2017, 09:22 PM   #42
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A hockey stop, on skis or skates is a stop at speed with both skis or blades turned 90 degrees to the direction of travel, always has been always will be.
90° is wrong on skates. Hands down. It must be at less than or more than 90° to keep wheels from stopping, ya know, to prevent flat spots. I cringe every time I see someone use a skate peependicular to their direction of travel as a brake. Angular direction of the skates doesn't dictate the stop. The body positioning does. Just like a T stop using anything other than the 90° angle is still a T stop.

A hockey stop uses a plow and t stop in 1 move. Both of which should not end up perpendicular to the line of travel. Now on skiis , snowboards or ice skates, this doesn't matter. Well unless you don't care about your wheels lmao.

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Hey Mort. That reverse hockey stop is really impressive. I'm going to work on it during the next session.
Try the reverse T and plows first to get used to breaking traction with the feet you will use for your backwards hockey stop practice. Also make sure you focus most of the attempt on that plowing foot, and getting the front axle to break traction to initiate the drift. Then the whole foot should slide. Be aware of the angle of attack so you don't flat spot!
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Old December 31st, 2017, 10:34 PM   #43
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90° is wrong on skates. Hands down. It must be at less than or more than 90° to keep wheels from stopping, ya know, to prevent flat spots.

I pretty much agree, with one exception. If you have really slippery wheels and skate on a slippery floor, you can get away with a 90 degree stop. On my every-day wheels it is more like 30-45 degree, just like in your videos.

I have yet to develop a flat spot. But I don't t-stop or do any other activity to cause the flat.
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Old December 31st, 2017, 11:16 PM   #44
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I pretty much agree, with one exception. If you have really slippery wheels and skate on a slippery floor, you can get away with a 90 degree stop. On my every-day wheels it is more like 30-45 degree, just like in your videos.

I have yet to develop a flat spot. But I don't t-stop or do any other activity to cause the flat.

I flat spotted an old anabolix "the tire" at a very low speed, I stepped down to stop, and my foot slid about 10 to 18 inches. Had to fix it with a drill later that night.

Just because the floor is slippery doesn't mean it can't flat them either. Often a floor will have a film or dust built on top of the surface, when sliding, it wipes it away, then the wheel will hook up it can rip the urethane off
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Old December 31st, 2017, 11:19 PM   #45
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Wearing thick cotton socks isn’t the way to skate, “for example”, mounting your plates biased exactly wrong, is another blunder, a hockey stop is exactly that, a hockey stop is skates or skis 90degrees perpendicular, varying from a hockey stop is not a hockey stop, it’s a, well, something else.
Doing a hockey stop on outdoor surfaces is “stupid” unless you are wearing hockey gear, so do hockey stops indoors with wheels a little to hard for the floors, common sense.

I’m hoping you’re not going to break another skate loggers ankle with your advice, little eve left the forum, with a broken ankle, why, she received advice to use softer wheels to hockey stop, before anyone realized the problem, she broke her ankle, I’m hoping another forum member doesn’t break their ankle due to inept advice.

Again, don’t do outdoor hockey stops unless geared up properly.
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Old December 31st, 2017, 11:46 PM   #46
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Just because the floor is slippery doesn't mean it can't flat them either. Often a floor will have a film or dust built on top of the surface, when sliding, it wipes it away, then the wheel will hook up it can rip the urethane off
Sure, but a hard slide is usually intentional. The in-liners actually do this alot at my rink. I skate fairly airy and never dig in on soft wheel to force them to slide. But I know a few guys who skate harder and they do end up with flats. I also skate with guys who use wood and fiberglass wheels. I see them sideways all the time and no flats. I have some old cheap speed wheels that have almost no grip. I can slide at 90 deg. with little effort.

And I agree with Ursel. Sliding stops outdoors is dangerous. When outdoors I drop speed with turning, plowing, or spinning movement but never a full slide. I prefer large soft wheels for outdoors so if I start to slide I'm in trouble.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 12:53 AM   #47
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Wearing thick cotton socks isn’t the way to skate, “for example”, mounting your plates biased exactly wrong, is another blunder, a hockey stop is exactly that, a hockey stop is skates or skis 90degrees perpendicular, varying from a hockey stop is not a hockey stop, it’s a, well, something else.
Doing a hockey stop on outdoor surfaces is “stupid” unless you are wearing hockey gear, so do hockey stops indoors with wheels a little to hard for the floors, common sense.

I’m hoping you’re not going to break another skate loggers ankle with your advice, little eve left the forum, with a broken ankle, why, she received advice to use softer wheels to hockey stop, before anyone realized the problem, she broke her ankle, I’m hoping another forum member doesn’t break their ankle due to inept advice.

Again, don’t do outdoor hockey stops unless geared up properly.
Ah, lost the self indulgent battle again? Socks are dependant on the conditions needed for the skater. We habe gone over this 100 times. Why they work for me, why they would work for others in similar setups and foot sizes.

My plates are mounted perfectly fine, thanks. They have an intentional heel out, toe in off the traditional centerline to create advantageous leverages for the diverse skillset I use, and the leverages I need for toe work. I'm not here trying to advocate my setup to anyone, so I don't know why you even bother speaking of it. Again, we've gone over this time and time again, and you always bring it up in an attempt to discredit me (or other people and their situatuojs) when it does not follow your isolated skating experience. Lmao.

The logger you're speaking of broke their ankle yes, but it wasn't from hockey stopping, it was from playing derby. Why you insist on bringing up moot things like that is obvious. Attempt to discredit others to make yourself more valid, your number 1 goto tactic. :/

A hockey stop is a sliding/drifting maneuver, where a skater positions themselves near perpendicular to their line of travel, using the inside edge of one skate, and the outside edge of the other skate at the same time as a braking system. Angles of attack used are virtually irrelevant during the stopping portion. Why? Because angles of attack do not dictate the friction during the move at all. Weight displacement and form does.


Well if you were a bit more social and not such an internet troll some more experienced rink skaters could help you with all your poor visualization on skating Mike. Then maybe you would have not only the skillset, but the confidence to do outdoor hockey stops. Also you'd know about angularity importances.
Everyone I skate with can do hockey stops indoor or outdoor without falling. Pads aren't a concern at all. Why? Because they practice, alot, and learn what the grip threshold is in their current skating environment.

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And I agree with Ursel. Sliding stops outdoors is dangerous. When outdoors I drop speed with turning, plowing, or spinning movement but never a full slide. I prefer large soft wheels for outdoors so if I start to slide I'm in trouble.

It just takes practice. Mainly confidence is the key. We use 78a (atom roadhogs to 90A(cosmic superflys) outdoors. Typically we roll atom poisons outside, great middle ground wheel with good vibration dampening, honestly one of my favorites. Way better than roll line heliums.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 01:15 AM   #48
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A hockey stop is a hockey stop, don’t do one outdoors, hockey stops only work at speed, don’t do it outdoors.
Cotton sock are not sports socks, simple.
Little Eva broke her ankle practicing hockey stops for derby, she never made it to derby, because she used a to low duro wheel because she listened to advice from someone that wears cotton socks and mounts their plates exactly opposite of conventional mounting, which every other skater on the planet uses
You can lead a horse to water.

And yes, I’ve corrected the situation before, and I hope another ankle isn’t going to get broken.

So show a video not on facebook of a full speed hockey stop outdoors on rough pavement, not a slow speed t stop

Hopefully I’ve made my point to someone that thinks.

Please not their be another needless ankle broken.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 02:42 AM   #49
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A hockey stop is a hockey stop, don’t do one outdoors, hockey stops only work at speed, don’t do it outdoors.
Cotton sock are not sports socks, simple.
Cotton socks often cause blisters because most people do not have a size 12 foot, which leaves those in the 6 to 10 size foot area with TOO much sock. Since cotton crew socks which I use with 0 problems are far too loose, and bunch up on smaller footed people. I, and others with size 11 to 12 feet do not have that issue, ya know, since the sock is pulled tight. Also many people have problems with "athletic" socks. Since they are synthetic, and usually habe a lower coefficient of friction, it often leads to slippage in a skate boot. This causes skaters to overtorque their skate lacing producing foot cramps in an attempt to stop the sliding. If we were running or cycling, it wouldn't matter, and a wicking sock woukd DEFINITELY be my choice as well. This is not the case however. The secret sauce here is to get a sock that FITS. It doesn't matter what it's made of if it fits correctly. As for the padded portion, well that depends on the volume of the skate boot and the skaters foot. What ever makes the best fit. Example? My right foot is a smidge bigger than my left in length and volume , so to equalize the fit I wear a slightly thicker knitted sock on the left foot. People can do what they want, I'll do me. I would not take sock info from a goon that runs lotion on his feet to go skating. Lmao


Little Eva broke her ankle practicing hockey stops for derby this is incorrect lol

, she never made it to derby, because she used a to low duro wheel because she listened to advice from someone that wears cotton socks and mounts their plates exactly opposite of conventional mounting, which every other skater on the planet uses
You can lead a horse to water.

"conventional" mounting for "conventional" wood wheels is old news, just because your idea of a horse and buggy performance worked to do your work does not mean it works best. I'll stick with my stuff, which does exactly what I intended it to do. . A soft grippy wheel for beginners aids in learning the motions of skating, and inspires confident skating, so they can start to learn things. Likely someone told that girl to pick her foot up and set it down into a plow(which I have seen taught at MANY "derby" clinics). Which is not the way one should learn. You learn properly by building the ability to carve harder and harder turns, gradually, until you reach traction thresholds, which builds ankle coordination and strength through muscle memory. Once you possess that strength with grippy wheels all others are nothing. I wasn't there to teach her, who knows what she was doing. It's ignorant to even attempt to attribute that skaters injury to anyone on SLF.

And yes, I’ve corrected the situation before, and I hope another ankle isn’t going to get broken.

So show a video not on facebook of a full speed hockey stop outdoors on rough pavement, not a slow speed t stop

Why should I be the one who needs to make an account on YouTube or whathaveyou, to prove anything? I'll be happy to make another video, high speed, forwards, backwards , anything, rink or outdoors, it wont change a thing, but it will have to warm up for outdoor stuff first ^.^
Hopefully I’ve made my point to someone that thinks.
Maybe, but it s quite limited on the experience scale
Please not their be another needless ankle broken.
Maybe you should go to some derby clinics and stop them from teaching bad techniques instead of blaming it on equipment?
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Old January 1st, 2018, 02:32 PM   #50
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Friday I did a backwards “Toy Counter Plastic Jeweled Necklass Stop”. My butt does not register on the duro scale but I did stop.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 04:03 PM   #51
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My apologies to the op, but this is becoming an expanded skate conversation about the basics of skate setup, there’s no changing this doppelgängers mind, but others will get “it”

Nobody uses cotton socks for sports, period, end of discussion.
Nobody uses friction to hold their foot still during sports, friction is heat, heat is going to blister the skin.
If one uses orthotics, which are designed to cup the heel, and cup each toe, not to mention support the arch and every millimeter of your foot 100%, the foot isn’t going to move, no friction, no heat.
Ah, lotion, yes, keep friction at bay, absorb the heat, and lubricate the skin and leather.

I simply advocate setting the plate on the skate to give the person the best balance, and every time it’s heel centered with the toe offset toward the little toe, not centered to the boot, however it gets done, the final product is..
Both front wheel show the same amount when looking down, when both front wheels show the same, the person is balanced.

Gosh I got on ice playing hockey at three years old, and I skate like a hockey player, there’s nothing that roller skating offers that any hockey player isn’t already very familiar with, and every hockey player knows how to not fall, or do stupid things, such as hit others, unless intentional.

Little Eva was practicing, three weeks on skates, to take the derby test, she asked on this forum what wheels to slide with, hers wouldn’t, she read a suggestion to use softer wheels, she did, she broke her ankle, she left the forum, funny, her posts are deleted.
If it hurts someone’s feelings that it’s “called out” to avoid another unnecessary broken ankle...suck it up and stop giving harmful advice, right, when hell freezes

This thread was started with the question...how to stop indoors while going backwards “rexing” , rexing is skating backwards in a figure 8, there are no others to run into, its a stopping question, how it got dragged outdoors and “lies ie misinformation” started, doppelgänger.
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Old January 1st, 2018, 05:53 PM   #52
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You got some problems man.



Friction comes in 2 forms, static, and dynamic. Give me all the static friction between my foot and the sock and less static friction between the sock and the skate boot. A sock does 2 things keeps your skin protected when properly fitting, and keeps the foot from dropping off body soil. Lotion ruins that. But if you don't apply enough torque to your skates to cause slippage even with slippery socks like synthetics and lotion on, that's cool. You do you. Others need whatever fit they want, and some find it with standard cotton crew socks, some cant. I skated 10 hours , in the rain in a2a this past year, not 1 blister, used cotton. Skates were drenched from entire intersections being under 3 inches of water. Why didn't I get blisters? My socks fit correctly duah.

We got here because you felt the need of being OT, and bringing up incorrect or bias'd bullsh!t again. Which is typical.

Orthotics are great... IF ya got jacked up feet and body shapes that NEED it to correct a malformity. Otherwise minimal padding is best, enough to keep impact soreness at bay. Less is more. Sorry buddy.

If you're all about this plate placement crap, which I've shown a picture of mine here, and its adjustment for heel out toe in, to be tailored to my personal skating, which I dont go around advocating my alignment to anyone, why bring it up here? Oh yea, to cause confusion to the scene. You're like "the national inquirer" of skating. Some truths to be had, but 99% masked by drama and fake sh!t

I duunno if You're implying I've hit someone, but even in the video I posted I didn't. Lol

Rexing is variable, depending on who you ask, some people just consider it skating backwards with fancy footwork, not necessarily only in the center. Different areas, different descriptions. Just like skate tricks. It's non standard.

Since you don't know about that rink life, as you have made it a point to say you don't rink skate, let me shed some light for you. kids don't stay out of the center, they play tag, cut track , all sorts of stuff. They get in your way , and not all rexing is done in your imaginary 4 foot box without kid hazards. That's why stopping in all forms is a must have skillset. I've had 100 fold more near misses with other skaters in the center than skating around the outside area while helping others with footwork.

@ Derrick

Those darn kids lol. Fake swords on the ground, beads, straws, candy, etc. Gotta be safe out there !
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 03:46 PM   #53
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No, we got here because once again....
Inept advice was offered, the op, obviously an experienced skater, indoor skater, didn’t need it, but there it was, hockey stop outdoors going backwards, or the advice included forward.

The problem was, others “might” have taken the advice and broken an ankle, I’m glad I was aware of the possible danger and spoke out.

Even the perfectly formed foot requires an orthotic to support it, put it in a flat sole and the arch has no support, the heel and toes aren’t kept in place and the skaters weight is haphazardly held, much less... a less than perfect foot.

Actually, with all the time and money involved, why don’t you wear custom bonts, no socks needed, a carbon heat molded sole (custom orthotic).

I don’t mind trying to teach others to have a better time skating, boot setup is a good start, yes way off topic, but much less than telling others to hockey stop outdoors.

I mentioned the plate placement just to point out the difference between mounts, nobody else, anywhere mounts exactly backwards of convention, so be it.

Rink life? Personally, I lived at a hockey rink for 12years, that’s rink life, wearing glitter and twirling around for the preteen females is something else, ask Roy Moore.

Skating aerobically for exercise is great, I love it, I don’t skate to be social, I skate for better flexion, I also bike for anaerobic purposes, (heart and lungs), not for social purposes.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 07:14 PM   #54
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No, we got here because once again....
Inept advice was offered, the op, obviously an experienced skater, indoor skater, didn’t need it, but there it was, hockey stop outdoors going backwards, or the advice included forward.

Information was asked about stopping while backwards, without stoppers, it wasn't about outdoor or indoor. Honestly, the skating surface doesn't matter if the skill level is there. Indoors is less problematic, and likely where one would practice and become proficient under consistent conditions. Then people can move on to outdoor skills where traction is not as static. That's up to them. I onky demonstrated skills used outside toe stops for stopping backwards. You always seem to get lost on topics. Take some meds.

The problem was, others “might” have taken the advice and broken an ankle, I’m glad I was aware of the possible danger and spoke out.
again, it wasn't my advice that caused an injury lmao, I don't k ow how many times I've red the posts, and how many ti.es you erroneously remember them

Even the perfectly formed foot requires an orthotic to support it, put it in a flat sole and the arch has no support, the heel and toes aren’t kept in place and the skaters weight is haphazardly held, much less... a less than perfect foot.

NO a fell formed and conditioned foot that has proper strength from not being cradled by too much paddind as everyine always trys to use with these ignorant arch supports is the problem. Studies have shown that individuals who walked bare foot(no padding!) Have SIGNIFICANTLY less problems with their feet. What is needed is just the right amount of cushioning to prevent damage from impacting. The arch will do its job. Unless someone has developed a condition that necessitates a fix such as arthritus. Or over tightening laces because they used a low coefficient of friction sock, and they are trying to stop that movement. Then they stick stupid overly padded orthodics in their skates, and ruin the strength of their feet by making them work with crutches. Research sometime buddy, stop living in the stone age

Actually, with all the time and money involved, why don’t you wear custom bonts, no socks needed, a carbon heat molded sole (custom orthotic).

carbon is good for racing, but not so good for comfort. I prefer the feel of leather soles. Why run custom fit when I already have developed a fit so good in my boots I can skate them without laces in them?

I don’t mind trying to teach others to have a better time skating, boot setup is a good start, yes way off topic, but much less than telling others to hockey stop outdoors.

I mentioned the plate placement just to point out the difference between mounts, nobody else, anywhere mounts exactly backwards of convention, so be it. lol, yea, ok, we all skate art boots and art plates, with axles in the same spot, rotflol, you're a hoot

Rink life? Personally, I lived at a hockey rink for 12years, that’s rink life, wearing glitter and twirling around for the preteen females is something else, ask Roy Moore.

Skating aerobically for exercise is great, I love it, I don’t skate to be social, I skate for better flexion, I also bike for anaerobic purposes, (heart and lungs), not for social purposes.
The non social skater, and unhappy troll has the best knowledge. Maybe you need to learn new stuff old man.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 09:44 PM   #55
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Even the perfectly formed foot requires an orthotic to support it...
No.

Not for skating, walking, running, standing, or sitting. In fact, shoes themselves generally CAUSE foot problems and orthotics can lead to weaker foot muscles that were designed to support the foot while bare.

Obviously we can't skate barefooted but somehow humanoid creatures walking on two feet manged to do so quite well for 2+ million years without orthotics. And I have been skating in quads, inline skates, and on skateboards for 52 years now. I put 3,186 miles on skates/boards in 2017, without orthotics and without problems.

For further reading: Born To Run

I also have cyclist and speed skating friends who don't wear ANY socks either. Guess what? Their feet are tough as an old tire. Not my style but neither is generalizing about what other people need to be happy. But I can TELL you what I do and ASK others what they do, thanks to the Internet! From there I can take the advice, or leave it.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 10:30 PM   #56
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Almost apples and oranges, barefoot on ground that supports the foot,(sand, soft dirt) yes, barefoot on a flat surface no.
And a skate boot is a flat surface.

In my teens I ran barefoot 10-15 miles a day, basic transportation, marathon distance non stop once a month, loved to run, avoided tarmac. I also had a 28” long urethane wheels skateboard that I would sometimes use for basic transport, got it in the early sixty’s, that’s 1963

The sand and dirt do exactly what an orthotic does, a hard flat surface the opposite, have you ever had a custom orthotic underfoot? Night and day difference in balance, if not, don’t judge.

My point again...a flat surface offers no arch support, doesn’t keep the heel or toes in place and doesn’t support 100% of the weight, there are pressure points, exactly the problem with cotton socks(part of), spots that are holding more weight, others holding no weight.


A custom orthotic, hard, not a soft dr schools pad.

We’ve been wearing flat bottomed shoes for centuries, I wonder what percentage of people have flat feet now, but if we had transitioned to moccasins, with no flat hard surface, I wonder what percentage of the people would have flat feet.

So, grab a pair of custom orthotics, yes 100$ plus, and try them, but saying no without full understanding?????

Let me expound.
Walked into a ski shop with raichlie ski boots, ( my nastar handicap on skis is 4, that’s 4% slower than the fastest US ski team member on that course),sat down had a custom orthotic made, walked around the shop without the orthotics, it was like moonwalking,the orthotics were slipped into the boots, walked around the shop, the first step was like being in sneakers, not like walking on the moon, balance, comfort.

So, try it before condemning it.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 11:02 PM   #57
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Impact absorption is all thats needed. Too much impact absorbtions leads to bad from because you cant feel the problems you're creating. Until its too late, when your knees are thrashed ....

Inserting all this hoopla padding into a skate decreases the volume available in the skate, obsucing a good fit, elevating you further from the bead of the skate boot, increases leverages on your feet and ankles and choking the circulation in the foot... causing issues, then people lace more loosely, and their feet slip, and slip even more with stupid synthetic socks that have poor friction qualities. The o ly solution here is to buy a sock that fits tightly, and will not bunch up no matter what it is made from.

You need to realize your information is FLAWED, and completely one sided.

I have minimal padding in my skates and shoes. May times I take the insoles out because theres simply too much.


Who in their right mind would take foot advice from someone that lubricates their feet with lotion before skating? **rotflol** the needs of skating require your boot to become a second skin max friction to PREVEBT SLIPPAGE!. Not a pedicurist massaging oils into your foot as it rolls around inside the boot giving terrible feedback and responsiveness.

Zzz zzz.

Unless you have something to contribute to the OP question of "How to stop backwards other than using toestops?" Or at the very least what is wrong with the ways I did my stopping techniques, quit going OT.
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Old January 2nd, 2018, 11:18 PM   #58
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You need to realize your information is FLAWED, and completely one sided.
Applies to both of you.

You both have to realize that there are no two feet the same, and each requires an appropriately individual approach to supporting them, whether in skate boots or otherwise. Heck, no two pairs of my own skates are set up the same inside. What makes you think that there's the One True Answer for multiple pairs of unrelated feet?

There is no one-size-fits-all approach. Don't believe me? Swap underwear and then tell me how you feel.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 12:32 AM   #59
Mort
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Applies to both of you.

You both have to realize that there are no two feet the same, and each requires an appropriately individual approach to supporting them, whether in skate boots or otherwise. Heck, no two pairs of my own skates are set up the same inside. What makes you think that there's the One True Answer for multiple pairs of unrelated feet?

There is no one-size-fits-all approach. Don't believe me? Swap underwear and then tell me how you feel.
Lol , I know. I'm not advocating an absolute condition. Just equipment that fits, with minimal padding for the individual(which varies) far too many times I see people keep putting thicker padding or insoles in because they believe they don't have enough.

That's why we have heat molding, and variable levels of insole thickness, sock thicknesses, materials and so on.

The only thing I've held strong with is a a sock that fits and minimal padding. Less is more so to speak. Some people's skates are so snugly conformed even the thinnest socks cause volume issues. Kinda sucks having to clean the innards of the boots to keep smell at bay, but oh well.


This crap started from me giving examples of backwards braking techniques. How this a$$hat always turns it into a goddamn orthodic debate is beyond me.
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Old January 3rd, 2018, 01:21 AM   #60
rufusprime99
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You both have to realize that there are no two feet the same, and each requires an appropriately individual approach to supporting them, whether in skate boots or otherwise. Heck, no two pairs of my own skates are set up the same inside. What makes you think that there's the One True Answer for multiple pairs of unrelated feet?

There is no one-size-fits-all approach. Don't believe me? Swap underwear and then tell me how you feel.
Not to mention, people don't hear what you say, they hear what THEY hear. You tell someone to do exactly this, and you are right there, in their presence, and they say, yeah, I get it. Then they do it, and it is NOT what you told them. LOLOL

This is like horseshoes or hand grenades. Give em a rough description, and with a bit of luck, they'll get the message. To be really precise, you have to be there. Not so much to give a precise description, but to correct individual quirks and errors. I was showing a lady how to toe stop the other day. I told her to put a toe back, then sink her weight down, and that will bring pressure on the toe. Instead, she sank her weight down FIRST, , THEN put her toe back. It worked for her, so I said, F it. If it worked, it worked.
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