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Old January 4th, 2018, 07:08 PM   #1
Sunnyape
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Default Heel retention of Bont Hybrid boots

Despite being the right size and been heat moulded for my feet, my heels still lift in my Bont Quad Racers in Duralite with no rear boot loop or lace snug. I'm going to try getting some longer laces and wrapping them under the heel and rear of the plate, old school style, to see if that helps a bit.

Anyhow, I am planning a new skate build soon and think the strap of the Hybrids would be a better solution. Does anyone have both the Bont Hybrids and Quad Racer boots and can comment on how much the top strap helps with heel retention?
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Old January 4th, 2018, 08:35 PM   #2
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You might want to take another go at heat molding.

First, a couple of assertions. One, the basic design of the Bont heel should provide good support in keeping the heel down so long as your foot is not moving in the boot. This leads to the second assertion, your foot is moving. The Goal, stop your foot from moving.

So, let's tackle movement. 2 types: For/aft, and side to side.

If you have side to side movement, you'll need to tighten the heel cup itself.

If you have for aft movement, you will want to concentrate on the whole rest of the foot bottom. The thing that makes a Bont work so well is that it CAN BE MADE to fit like a second skin. It should be snug, though not tight, EVERYWHERE. This is what creates the great control and comfort. You need to really identify where the boot is loose. You might try this test. Put your boot on with thick socks on. I am assuming you wear thin socks with your Bont. Or barefoot. If you are wearing thick socks with your Bont, that coult be part of the problem. A Bont should be worn with thin nylon socks of no socks. Back to the test. With thick socks on, the parts of the boot that fit well, will now be tight. The parts that are NOT tight will feel normal, and thus are loose with a thin/no sock. Those are the places to tighten up with heat molding.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 11:20 PM   #3
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Had a pair of riedellís with the heel strap, it was great to hold the heel, now in OBís, the little metal loops work great for heel retention, I skate for a song without fastening them and then after fastening, night and day difference in the action of the skates, yea the straps on the new pair, and golly, orthotics for absolutely heel and foot hold, a perfect footbed with heat molded ankle and a strap to snug, sounds great.
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Old January 4th, 2018, 11:36 PM   #4
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Have you heard of orthotics.
Apparently they are the answer to the worlds problems
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Old January 5th, 2018, 12:10 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnyape View Post
Despite being the right size and been heat moulded for my feet, my heels still lift in my Bont Quad Racers in Duralite with no rear boot loop or lace snug. I'm going to try getting some longer laces and wrapping them under the heel and rear of the plate, old school style, to see if that helps a bit.

Anyhow, I am planning a new skate build soon and think the strap of the Hybrids would be a better solution. Does anyone have both the Bont Hybrids and Quad Racer boots and can comment on how much the top strap helps with heel retention?
I have both.
The QR with leather/fibreglass is not molded and my right heel is less snug than my left.
The Hybrid with duralite/carbon is not molded and both heels are snug. I’ll have to try the Hybrid without a strap to see if there is a difference.
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Last edited by leshomes; January 5th, 2018 at 12:12 AM. Reason: Clarification
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Old January 5th, 2018, 12:34 AM   #6
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Have you heard of orthotics.
Apparently they are the answer to the worlds problems
Only to the oppressed and ignorant.
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Old January 5th, 2018, 05:05 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rufusprime99 View Post
You might want to take another go at heat molding. If you have side to side movement, you'll need to tighten the heel cup itself.
It seems to be mostly sideways movement. One of the things I find a bit strange about the heat molding process is that a few U-Tube vids show the areas with the resin getting really supple and pliable, almost like stiff toffee. The heel area of my boots, after I heat it, does become flexible, but certainly not anywhere as malleable as the videos show. I tried using a bit more heat (80 deg c) for a longer period (25 mins), but the result is much the same; I can push the heel cups in a bit from the side, but they doesn't seem to want to stay there. Once I get my feet in while they're still hot, the cups move out again.

I think I'll try the molding process again, push the heel cups in more from side and hold them in that position with a brace while they cool and don't put my feet in until they've set.
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Old January 5th, 2018, 10:01 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunnyape View Post
It seems to be mostly sideways movement. One of the things I find a bit strange about the heat molding process is that a few U-Tube vids show the areas with the resin getting really supple and pliable, almost like stiff toffee. The heel area of my boots, after I heat it, does become flexible, but certainly not anywhere as malleable as the videos show. I tried using a bit more heat (80 deg c) for a longer period (25 mins), but the result is much the same; I can push the heel cups in a bit from the side, but they doesn't seem to want to stay there. Once I get my feet in while they're still hot, the cups move out again.

I think I'll try the molding process again, push the heel cups in more from side and hold them in that position with a brace while they cool and don't put my feet in until they've set.
Yeah, I had to muscle mine a bit. I'd use the same heat, but leave it in a little longer as the heel cup is pretty much the thickest area to mold. Other areas give a little easier. I had to do mine twice. I used the same heat, but I pushed harder and HELD in the tighter position longer.

One other heads up on going hard making the heel cup thinner is the leading edge of the cup. The edge closest to the toes. If the cup as a whole needs to come in a lot, it might turn inward in the foot and bite into the foot, turning from a U shaped cup to a C shaped cup. You don't want to make it a C. You want a thinner U. If you do turn it into a C shape, and you have discomfort while skating, you'll need to heat mold again to turn the C back into a U. Just something to be aware of. Make the cup thinner without getting those edges biting into the foot.

Oh, and check your arch area on both sides after the heel stuff. One might effect the other. Concentrate on the heel cups, but no problem double checking other areas whilst things are gooey.

The Bonts really are awesome. They have the potential to really be the perfect fitting boot. Though a little work may be required.
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Last edited by rufusprime99; January 5th, 2018 at 11:42 AM.
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Old January 5th, 2018, 01:01 PM   #9
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Itís time to contact bont, they will give solid advice, making the space bigger is easy, making the space smaller is challenging, and it sounds like itís popping back into the shape if was made, or formed to.
A member ďBarbie BontĒ is a good start in the US, and hereís a link to all things bont~

https://www.google.com/search?q=barb...&client=safari

Putting ezyfits in to take up the room on the sides of your heel seems like a step backwards, but many bont users do.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 05:07 AM   #10
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Ideally you need to get a friend , maybe even 2, with good hand strength to help mold the boot. 1 at a time.

What I did to an inline speed boot was take a "eggsact egg timer" and I stuck it inside the boot, when it changed color(showing that heat haf indeed penetrated the boot)** make note of how long your oven took to fully heat soak the boot! So you can time the second boot** , I molded the boot. I had my friends do the molding while I stood in position and articulated my feet to simulate skating, so the counters wouldn't have an edge at the top where many counters or heel cups would dig in. I had my boots laced a bit less tightly than I usually would. I made sure to tamp my heel as far back into the boot as it would go before lacing up


I got my friends(2)to press the boot into the shape I wanted, trying to make it like a second skin to my foot. They held it for like 10 minuites while everything firmed up. Once it felt like it wasn't going to move easily (cooled to the touch) I gently unlaced and took my foot out and let it sit empty to finish cooling. The idea was that if my feet were constantly pressing against the inside of the boot while I didn't have hands actively reinforcing it, the moulding would be wrong later. So I gently removed my feet and let the thing cool down.

Since the moulding with my friends took about 10 mins, I'd stick the 1st boot in and then the second one about 15 mins later. Making sure to keep track of the time each boot spends heating.

My inline boots were in the oven like a freaking hour before they actuakky got soft, and I used a candy thermometer in the oven to make sure the oven was right(which it was not) so I adjusted from there. 205f in my oven was about 180 to 185 real temp
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Old January 6th, 2018, 09:01 AM   #11
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Quote:
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Ideally you need to get a friend , maybe even 2, with good hand strength to help mold the boot. 1 at a time.
Having done both, I can say that an inline boot was much harder to mold than a Quad Racer. A little extra time in the oven should be helpful in softening things up. Having someone to help is good too. You might have the other person squeeze while you have your foot in the boot. Not to mention some moral support can be nice. This can all seem intimidating. All told I did my quad racers 4 times. Did a general one, did not get it right, did it again. Did the heel once, did not get it right, did it again. Getting over the intimidation is a hurdle in itself. Just be confident, know what you goal is, and go for it. Just remember, if it goes a little sideways, you can always correct it.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 06:06 PM   #12
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Default Will try again

Thanks for all the input. Yesterday I tried some longer laces to wrap around the heel, different sock thicknesses and even some lacing configurations to add / remove pressure on different parts of my feet.

All had varying degrees of effect on fit and comfort, but I was still able to lift my heels a little bit more than I liked, so I'll re-mold them when my new plates arrive, but this time do one shoe at a time with someone to help push the heel cup in while the resin cools.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 07:40 PM   #13
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What ever sock makes the boots volume fit the best is the one you should mold with. Or maybe a bit thinner than what you would normally use while skating.

Sock thickness affects fit, and will have an impact on the way the boot gets molded.

Make sure to get that heel tapped into the back of the boot!
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Old January 8th, 2018, 07:01 PM   #14
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Default me too

For Quad racers, this was my fix. Worked better than anything else and was never an issue.


Sorry for blurry image. If pic not working, it is hockey laces behind heel. I have been skating in the cheap Quadstars for a while and have never had heel slip. I think Quadstars are the best deal on the market.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 02:23 AM   #15
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For Quad racers, this was my fix.... it is hockey laces behind heel.
Yeah, gave that a try with some new 2m long waxed laces, but still got a bit of heel lift and movement, so will go down the re-molding rout to get the cup in tighter.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 05:27 PM   #16
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use the high heel lock, it works pretty amazing for heel lift. i actually use the heel lock and the behind the heel laces.

i have googled it for you
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Old January 10th, 2018, 07:01 PM   #17
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use the high heel lock, it works pretty amazing for heel lift. i actually use the heel lock and the behind the heel laces.
Thanks. I did try that lacing method with the shorter laces and didn't notice much difference. I'll try it with the longer laces this Friday.

I cycle as well and none of my cycling shoes have laces, only velcro straps, and all of them are able to exert more than enough downward pressure on the top of my foot to keep it locked into the shoes, hence my thinking that my next pair of boots might be the Bont Hybrid with the strap. That way I don't need as much lace tension and the lower part of my foot isn't getting the bejezus squished out of it because that strap is taking care of the top part.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 08:10 PM   #18
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Default Need wider boots

I've got a better idea now of what's going on. I got the plain, off the shelf Bont QRs in the microfiber, which only come in standard widths. But using their measuring charts, my feet are actually wide. So, when I put the boots on, to avoid the excess pressure on the sides of my feet and the associated hotspots, I can't do the laces up too tight in that area. My foot length is also just in the zone between 10 and 10.5 in length, but I went for the 10.5, so my shoe is a touch longer than optimal.
To get a better fit, I'm going to have to shell out for the MyBont custom QR Carbon in a size 10.5 wide, but with the 'skinny ankle' option. At least with the custom I can get leather and the nicer lining.
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Old January 13th, 2018, 12:41 AM   #19
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Ok, but before spending money, look, search threads here for some of the austrailian custom boot makers, lots of shoes custom made around, leather, used, lots of racing plates, i'm suprised no aussies have chipped in with info, but, if you go bont, go to the factory for a custom fit, no sense in using easy fits, just more friction and weight.
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