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Old January 13th, 2014, 04:11 PM   #21
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Hey Paco,

You do not need 100 percent contact of the tire on the taper, especially with that knurl. You could relieve the center and reduce the weight and not change the performance. With reducing the front of the hub as Scott spoke of so the bearing is flush, and a groove where the tire contacts, this will get your weight down.

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Old March 25th, 2014, 03:56 AM   #22
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Soooo... any progress to report?
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Old June 23rd, 2014, 12:15 PM   #23
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Hi all again.

First of all my apologies for the time it does not write in this forum.

But I'm a busy at work, but I'm still working on the design of this new Deano ALU hub and soon I hope to upload photos of the new design that I'm working.

Comment that I received from Scott Corey, a full set of natural soft tires (88a) to test outdoor the new aluminum hubs.

Thanks again, Scott.

Greetings from Spain.
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Old August 12th, 2014, 10:03 AM   #24
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Hi, all! And again, Iīm sorry by my bad English.

After several months busy in my life and at my work, I have continued with this Deano compatible hub Project. The idea is get one V2 ALU hub lighter and advance until the next V3 ALU hub.

At this moment Iīm thinking in two design for V3 hub:

One based in a three spoke design with a center hole in each spoke for saving weight and another based in a three spoke but without center hole and removing some material in the outside part of hub for saving weight.

In the first case, I donīt know if this ALU hub could be break in the center holes of the spokes zone and for this, Iīm thinking on design another ALU hub without holes.

Also I remove a lot of material in front and rear of hub to saving weight.

With the idea and help of AussieScott and Wild42 I remove some ALU material in outer side of hub to saving weight.

The hub will be made in 6061 T – ALU.

See pictures.

Regards.
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Old August 12th, 2014, 10:04 AM   #25
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First V3 Design:

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Old August 12th, 2014, 10:05 AM   #26
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Old August 12th, 2014, 10:06 AM   #27
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Old August 12th, 2014, 10:07 AM   #28
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Second V3 Design:

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Old August 12th, 2014, 10:09 AM   #29
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Old August 14th, 2014, 11:36 AM   #30
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Great work
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Old August 14th, 2014, 01:10 PM   #31
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You 3-spoke design seems rather elegant yet adequately sturdy.

Other than reduced weight, what is the purpose of the bearing spacer internal rib being split into three segments? The amount of weight saved seems too little for the extra machining required.

I would prefer that it go all the way around for better cylindrical stiffening and structural integrity.

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Old August 19th, 2014, 08:01 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
You 3-spoke design seems rather elegant yet adequately sturdy.

Other than reduced weight, what is the purpose of the bearing spacer internal rib being split into three segments? The amount of weight saved seems too little for the extra machining required.

I would prefer that it go all the way around for better cylindrical stiffening and structural integrity.

-Armadillo
Hi, Armadillo, thanks for your suggestions.

Do you think itīs better make this 3 spokes solid without a central hole to add strength?

The only purpose of split the bearing spacer itīs saving weight but I think you are right and itīs better make a complete circle instead of a split circle to save machining time.

Iīll change soon the design.

If I make this 3 spokes solid, I can make a deep cut in outside part of hub to save weight, like you see in: Second V3 Design.

Do you think itīs a good idea?

Regards.
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Old August 19th, 2014, 06:28 PM   #33
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Albert,
I do not think the spoke holes or the slots are going to compromise the hub strength in any serious way, as long as the bearing spacing shoulder in the ID goes all the way around the hub.

The main places to be concerned about are those that would see some flexing with each revolution.
The millions of cyclic loading cycles that wheel hubs experience make it imperative that stress does not concentrate too much at any one point. If it does and the flexing amplitude gets too great, then fatigue cracking failure will be inevitable.

This was why I advised eliminating the weight saving sharp corner slot cuts in the bearing spacing shoulder, since they clearly would form a stress riser at the end of the curved slots.

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Last edited by Armadillo; August 21st, 2014 at 07:59 PM.
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Old August 21st, 2014, 11:41 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
Albert,
I do not think the spoke holes or the slots are going to compromise the hub strength in any serious way, as long as the bearing spacing shoulder in the ID goes all the way around the hub.

The main places to be concerned about are those that would see some flexing with each revolution.
The millions of cyclic loading cycles that wheel hubs experience make it imperative that stress does not concentrate too much at any one point. If it does and the flexing amplitude gets to great, then fatigue cracking failure will be inevitable.

This was why I advised eliminating the weight saving sharp corner slot cuts in the bearing spacing shoulder, since they clearly would form a stress riser at the end of the curved slots.

-Armadillo
Hi, thanks again.

At this moment Iīm changing the design to make a full circle instead of a split circle in the bearing spacing shoulder.

And Iīm considering keeping the three spokes with holes add a slot (cut) in the outside part of hub of 4mm wide for 1,2 deep more or less,
considering that the bearing spacing shoulder has 7.5mm

Itīs like you can see in Second V3 Design. I donīt know if this cut and also keeping the three holes spoke could be compromise the strenght of hub?

And will be a zone without contact with the tire but I think that this itīs not a problem.

My idea is to print this design in a 3D printer to test, by example, if the bearing seat correctly, if the hub mount correctly in Scott and Original Deano Tires, etc, before make the final CNC 6061 ALU version.

Regards,
Paco.
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Old August 25th, 2014, 02:50 AM   #35
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Default Hi Paco

Probably the only change I would make is the location of the knurling.
Where you want it will be difficult to machine.
I would either have it right next to the cir-clip groove or just after the hollowed out section you have.
If you have a step down just before the knurling it means the tire will bite into the knurling better.
Here is an example of what I am talking about.
Hub on the left was from the very first batch of hubs I every had made some 6 years ago. Note the Knurling is in the center of the flat spot. Sure it will grip but if you move the knurling to where it is on the hub to the right when the tire expands up and over it has to push through the knurling making for a much better lock.

Hope this helps you a bit.
Regards,
Scott.
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Old August 25th, 2014, 09:19 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALBERT.PACO View Post
Hi, thanks again.

At this moment Iīm changing the design to make a full circle instead of a split circle in the bearing spacing shoulder.

And Iīm considering keeping the three spokes with holes add a slot (cut) in the outside part of hub of 4mm wide for 1,2 deep more or less,
considering that the bearing spacing shoulder has 7.5mm

Itīs like you can see in Second V3 Design. I donīt know if this cut and also keeping the three holes spoke could be compromise the strenght of hub?

And will be a zone without contact with the tire but I think that this itīs not a problem.

My idea is to print this design in a 3D printer to test, by example, if the bearing seat correctly, if the hub mount correctly in Scott and Original Deano Tires, etc, before make the final CNC 6061 ALU version.

Regards,
Paco.
I suspect that such "a zone without contact with the tire," resulting from this shallow groove cut in the hub near center, WILL be a problem, and will reduce the efficiency of the compression and rebound cycle of the urethane directly below that zone.

-Armadillo
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Old August 25th, 2014, 10:33 PM   #37
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As long as we are tossing around ideas I have one that is more a discussion point than as serious recommendation (right now).

How about creating three spokes from the inside to a middle spacer? I have never bothered with spacers since they are a real pain, and I never saw the benefit. However, some people claim they are awesome if done correctly. The real problem is machining them to be the right size for the hub. This would allow you to contact the inner and outer races of the bearings, and allow someone to lock down the axle, which is not allowed by any other hub on the market.

The hubs wouldn't have to be terribly wide. The rest of the hub is pretty rigid, so while the hubs would add to the structure, I don't think they would take much load. I'm thinking the could go about 50% of the width of the gap between the two bearings, and a couple mm thick in the other direction.

I think it would be sufficient to use an 8mm spacer size, since the inner race of 7mm bearings are larger, so the outside diameter of the inner race is about the same as the outside diameter of those on an 8mm hub.

It would add a bit of weight, but offer something new.
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Old August 26th, 2014, 02:19 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WJCIV View Post
As long as we are tossing around ideas I have one that is more a discussion point than as serious recommendation (right now).

How about creating three spokes from the inside to a middle spacer? I have never bothered with spacers since they are a real pain, and I never saw the benefit. However, some people claim they are awesome if done correctly. The real problem is machining them to be the right size for the hub. This would allow you to contact the inner and outer races of the bearings, and allow someone to lock down the axle, which is not allowed by any other hub on the market.

The hubs wouldn't have to be terribly wide. The rest of the hub is pretty rigid, so while the hubs would add to the structure, I don't think they would take much load. I'm thinking the could go about 50% of the width of the gap between the two bearings, and a couple mm thick in the other direction.

I think it would be sufficient to use an 8mm spacer size, since the inner race of 7mm bearings are larger, so the outside diameter of the inner race is about the same as the outside diameter of those on an 8mm hub.

It would add a bit of weight, but offer something new.
You would always want your spacers to be turning at the same rpm as the as the axle --- which is ZERO.

By attaching spokes, the spacer is forced to spin with the wheel. Now you have a stationary axle, truck, and wheel nut squeezing down on two inner races with a spoked bearing spacer sandwiched in between them them.

I am sure you are beginning to see the non-functionality of this idea by now.

-Armadillo
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Last edited by Armadillo; August 26th, 2014 at 03:40 AM.
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Old August 26th, 2014, 02:06 PM   #39
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WJCIV! lol good idea. But as dillo was fast to point out already that doing so would make the spacer rotate with the wheel.

Now since your idea is a good one though here's what I propose. Machine the hub and do not bore anything but an 8mm hole in the center if possible. When you cut the bearing seat width you can cut the spacer at the same time. Then when the width is set you can cut the area out between the spacer and the bearing seat shoulder. Presto the exact spacer for each hub.
k
I don't like aluminum for spacers though. Cutting your own spacers without a lathe, thats the trouble with them. How could one cut them to size
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Old August 27th, 2014, 09:23 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
I suspect that such "a zone without contact with the tire," resulting from this shallow groove cut in the hub near center, WILL be a problem, and will reduce the efficiency of the compression and rebound cycle of the urethane directly below that zone.

-Armadillo
Yes, You have reason and I think that the shallow groove could be a problem for the tire fitting.

I will leave this idea and I will make the hub based on the First V3 design.

Thanks for your suggestions.

Last edited by ALBERT.PACO; August 27th, 2014 at 10:12 AM. Reason: Update Info.
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