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Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

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Old August 24th, 2017, 06:28 PM   #41
fierocious1
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that's impressiive ferocious i might try the hourglass tripe cone setup on mine next.aka dillostyle ish .
I did try a da dillo conversion on a pair of flyer 5s a while back and that was a improvement
Dillo wanted no part of what I had been working on. Hated DA45s and anything that improved them was a waste of time to him. This is all my build and ideas. Just remember, you will have to mill the frame and use longer KPs so it would be a good idea to have an extra pair plates that you can sacrifice.
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Old August 28th, 2017, 12:39 AM   #42
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Default Flipped bevelled washer

https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/

The washer that is bevelled, was flipped over on all 4 trucks today and skated for 2 hours. No issues. Also shimmed trucks back to where I normally set them up. A radiused or bevelled washer gives you a little less ramp up when turning hard. I did not test a radiused washer because I dont have any made up. Too small a contact area on the small end of the cushion and you will most likely have cushion damage. Zero damage today.

Ill have to look into getting radiused washers next.

Last edited by fierocious1; August 28th, 2017 at 07:10 PM.
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Old August 28th, 2017, 02:11 AM   #43
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Ill have to look into getting radiused washers next.
Since you are posting I'm glad to see you are not underwater...

From the pic I see another whole direction here. Instead of using a cushion as a poor substitute for an alignment mechanism why not put a matching radius smaller convex Delrin "washer" on top of the nut and a larger concave "washer" fitting inside the truck's lower recess? This would move all the urethane vagueness into one area where it might be easier to model and control. There might need to be some urethane between the top of the big washer and truck for smoothness and vibration absorption but it wouldn't come into play as much as you have now.

I love the video! Need to see more of it in this thread!

.
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Old August 28th, 2017, 08:17 PM   #44
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Since you are posting I'm glad to see you are not underwater...

From the pic I see another whole direction here. Instead of using a cushion as a poor substitute for an alignment mechanism why not put a matching radius smaller convex Delrin "washer" on top of the nut and a larger concave "washer" fitting inside the truck's lower recess? This would move all the urethane vagueness into one area where it might be easier to model and control. There might need to be some urethane between the top of the big washer and truck for smoothness and vibration absorption but it wouldn't come into play as much as you have now.

I love the video! Need to see more of it in this thread!

.
We are fine here, our old house in Hempstead is flooded again, 4' in it. We lived there 10 years and the water rose and never came in. We moved out about 4 years ago and it has flooded Iirc 5 times now.
I have an idea along the lines you describe. I want the cushion compression working independantly of alignment. I do have a solution to try. Its coming up soon. I like the way the triple cones work so modifying that would alter where Im going with it. Think spherical(ferrul) in a "milled slot", between the cushions above and below the truck's cushion pockets. So opening up the kp slot would be in order. A ferrul may work good enough as it is copper or brass.

There is so much cushion above the truck that no bevel or radiused washer is needed. If I were running a single cone on top, I could test it out. I would love to have some taller cones to play with in the tune. However another pair of plates with different seat heights would be needed.
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Old September 13th, 2017, 06:52 PM   #45
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Default beveled washer

Works very well. I have ran them for about 2 weeks now. I made only a couple of truck adjustments. Only one adjustment last weekend on the front right truck. As I lean the truck over the narrow end of the cone moves over on the compressed side lower and lower until it fully contacts all of the washer's surface. Very smooth and no binding. Video soon.

Last edited by fierocious1; September 14th, 2017 at 01:23 AM.
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Old September 15th, 2017, 12:35 AM   #46
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I was thinking: Is it possible to drill a hole and place a loose pin in the truck and king pin, through the axis of rotation. This would eliminate the "slop" seen in your video. Hell you would be half way to a tune-able arius.
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Old September 15th, 2017, 12:42 AM   #47
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I was thinking: Is it possible to drill a hole and place a loose pin in the truck and king pin, through the axis of rotation. This would eliminate the "slop" seen in your video. Hell you would be half way to a tune-able arius.
What I saw was staying centered pretty well. Im also going to video a standard setup but loose just to see how a regular setup moves, only problem is no stock setup will ever lean over this far without binding. I think the extreme bulging of the cushions goes with the looseness. Really no way to get around it. Unloaded cushions have nothing to decompress, so they only extend so far. I dont have any truck slot damage from hitting the kingpins so all is staying pretty well centered now.
Did you say you had some 165mm inline boots that had sideways slots?
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Old September 15th, 2017, 02:12 AM   #48
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What I saw was staying centered pretty well.
Yes, for a loose suspension they do. But I am left wondering what if????
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I think the extreme bulging of the cushions goes with the looseness.
Your plates felt like they had a lot of travel. My setup with the same cushions did not feel like I had as much travel. Something with the geometry- I'm sure.

I'm certain the damage comes from the end of your push stroke. *obviously*

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Really no way to get around it. Unloaded cushions have nothing to decompress, so they only extend so far. I dont have any truck slot damage from hitting the kingpins so all is staying pretty well centered now.
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Did you say you had some 165mm inline boots that had sideways slots?
Yes. Size 10. What are you thinking?
I decided to make my custom design with the traditional mounting holes.
Only problem is my machinist has been busy with real work. I was about to run the plates myself but I just received a big order, so no time for a while.
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Old September 15th, 2017, 02:40 AM   #49
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Yes, for a loose suspension they do. But I am left wondering what if????

Your plates felt like they had a lot of travel. My setup with the same cushions did not feel like I had as much travel. Something with the geometry- I'm sure.

I'm certain the damage comes from the end of your push stroke. *obviously*




Yes. Size 10. What are you thinking?
I decided to make my custom design with the traditional mounting holes.
Only problem is my machinist has been busy with real work. I was about to run the plates myself but I just received a big order, so no time for a while.
Thinking of firing up the mill in a few days. Maybe finish a pair of plates I started a while back and cut another pair as well. I'm looking at cutting a 165mm pair out too. I have to get a couple of things out of the way first (as usual ).
I think the reason my plates did not act the same as yours is the different hardness upper cushion pair. When the middle cushion is compressed into bind, the harder cushion gives way, preventing the binding, also changing caster a little bit in the process. I really want to set up a shorter plate to test around 7 1/2 WB.
The Arius is a great design, the cushion setup not so much. The Micro Star has a cushion design that worked but was very large and it has a lot to compress/displace which I think is also restrictive.

Last edited by fierocious1; September 15th, 2017 at 06:49 PM.
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Old September 16th, 2017, 11:57 PM   #50
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Maybe you are right. I was using red cones close to the truck. And purple cones toward the plate. My theory was to force more movement in the plate cushion since the truck cushion already takes most the movement. Your video proved that.
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Old September 17th, 2017, 12:33 AM   #51
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Maybe you are right. I was using red cones close to the truck. And purple cones toward the plate. My theory was to force more movement in the plate cushion since the truck cushion already takes most the movement. Your video proved that.
The way I see it, it is a balance with bias. The bias being the skater's weight, the balance of keeping the truck located on a DA 45. The harder bottom cushions compared to an upper cushion moves the truck up, while harder ones on top prevents more upward movement. The softer cushions you use the more it becomes apparent. Like if you use both yellow cushions above and below the truck, it is basically a split, except you have the skater's weight on top. When the cushions go into bind, the pressure builds up then forces the upper purple cushion to compress and relieve some of the binding. If using blues above and below the truck, you would have a lot of give and nearly no ramp up at all, but you will have to account for skaters weight. Would need a lighter skater because the suspension would be very squishy.
At 230# blues actually squish out under my weight. So I really have no need for that soft of a cushion.

You going to be at the rink tomorrow? Pics of the new finish on the floor are awesome!
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Old September 18th, 2017, 05:40 AM   #52
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The way I see it, it is a balance with bias. The bias being the skater's weight, the balance of keeping the truck located on a DA 45. The harder bottom cushions compared to an upper cushion moves the truck up, while harder ones on top prevents more upward movement. The softer cushions you use the more it becomes apparent. Like if you use both yellow cushions above and below the truck, it is basically a split, except you have the skater's weight on top. When the cushions go into bind, the pressure builds up then forces the upper purple cushion to compress and relieve some of the binding. If using blues above and below the truck, you would have a lot of give and nearly no ramp up at all, but you will have to account for skaters weight. Would need a lighter skater because the suspension would be very squishy.
At 230# blues actually squish out under my weight. So I really have no need for that soft of a cushion.
I can barely get blue cones to work. I have a very small pre-compression window. It's not like how I adjust other cushions. Most of the time I have not enough pre-compression or I crush the cushion. Really wish the yellows were as soft as they claim to be. In reality they are just a hair softer then the purples.
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You going to be at the rink tomorrow? Pics of the new finish on the floor are awesome!
I had to work. I got 30 minutes in on Saturday. It was awesome. Grip was great. I was really amazed how smooth it was. Like an ice rink that never needs a zamboni.
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Old September 18th, 2017, 02:51 PM   #53
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I can barely get blue cones to work. I have a very small pre-compression window. It's not like how I adjust other cushions. Most of the time I have not enough pre-compression or I crush the cushion. Really wish the yellows were as soft as they claim to be. In reality they are just a hair softer then the purples.

I had to work. I got 30 minutes in on Saturday. It was awesome. Grip was great. I was really amazed how smooth it was. Like an ice rink that never needs a zamboni.
The grip is awesome!. Completely broke in a set of Monza wheels yesterday. Tiny bit of tread on 2 wheels. Very smooth floor. Not crowded yesterday either.
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Old September 19th, 2017, 01:03 AM   #54
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Default Looking at these...

Take out a bit more ramp up from extra length.

.750 length compared to .50 singles.

https://www.muirskate.com/longboard/...-bushings-pack

Got to make up a bushing chart of all the ones I'm interested in testing next. Might try a single on top with a set of beveled washers. Will get my dimensions together and then set up the height of the cushion base/bed. I guess this is as tall as bushings get.
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Old September 19th, 2017, 09:38 PM   #55
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Call me crazy if you want:
In my experience the translucent cushions behave differently then the opaque. They translucent feel more snappy or something.

The art teachers swear by rubber over urethane. The manufacturer recommends the urethane. So I know there is a difference in material behavior. I'm guessing there is a noticeable difference in compound also.
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Old September 20th, 2017, 12:59 AM   #56
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Call me crazy if you want:
In my experience the translucent cushions behave differently then the opaque. They translucent feel more snappy or something.

The art teachers swear by rubber over urethane. The manufacturer recommends the urethane. So I know there is a difference in material behavior. I'm guessing there is a noticeable difference in compound also.
riot, they have several compounds, each has a different application. riot also has some "black widow" bushings, they are hourglass shaped. Riot machines their bushings from rod stock.
I ordered a set of tall cones from Riot. Going to test them out as soon as they get here. Taller than SGs. I have been wanting a taller single cushion to help keep the plate thicker between the pivot and the KP area to test. I have to cut it pretty deep for the 1" of cushion I normally use. So I ordered .750 tall cones. I thought I was through with this setup but, things happen. Going to play with the combinations to see if there is much difference. Probably keep the SG lower and shim the upper cone down to my preferred caster.
Riot Black Widows have peaked my interest. May try those soon as well. Probably in a 80a. There are two versions of these, tall and standard. The tall ones are also .750
http://riotboardsports.com/shop/tall-blackwidows/

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Old September 22nd, 2017, 02:48 AM   #57
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Default Cones came in today!

High quality machined cones. .750 tall(SG .500). Now for shimming to same height, 1". Got to go to Lowes tomorrow and get 2 more spacers.. lol.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/

feel a little different than SGs. But will find out this weekend in the next session, if I can make a new frame to work with these cones.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 08:16 PM   #58
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If material is the same, I'd prefer the long cone.
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Old September 22nd, 2017, 09:26 PM   #59
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If material is the same, I'd prefer the long cone.
Me too. Tall cone on bottom too. Looking at the Black widows, but wow are they expensive!
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Old September 25th, 2017, 01:56 AM   #60
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Default Okay...today

https://www.flickr.com/photos/435057...posted-public/

skated my usual setup today then converted to this tall cone setup. The new cushions are smoother as far as transition and ramp up to a point then get stiff. However they are also feel to be stiffer cushions than the SG yellows. With the added length the beveled washer is gone from the previous setup, basically the beveled washer was to make a short cone seem like a much longer one. I could have ran the longer cone on the bottom and kept my 1" double cones on top, but it is time to start over and explore the possibilities. That may come into play later. But I feel I need to go down a notch on the hardness. These ramp up right at the end of the stroke. Also just to protect the left front cushion, I took a brass .223 shell casing and cut it down to just be long enough to protect the cushion from the thread of the KP. It has to be knurled a little to make it a slip fit over the 3/8" KP. Very thin brass.
I believe the duro has to dropped to test out a couple more things. Harder duro won't work for me. So time to order more cones....again.
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