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Quad Roller Skating Forum Discussions about quad roller skates and any other quad skating discussions that do not seem appropriate for one of our other forums.

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Old September 7th, 2017, 02:24 AM   #1
fierocious1
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Default Composition vs duro, some wheel jabber... :)

Too many variables... Several ways to look at this. But IF you change the recipe to change duro, you have already changed the chemical makeup/composition of the urethane. So there has to be a better way to rate wheels.
But!
The other half of this is the skating surface. There is a vast range of conditions for wheels to overcome.
Duro, How hard does a wheel need to be? On roads outdoors, fairly soft. Indoors much harder. So duro cannot be ignored completely.
Then at times traction "can" be improved by going to a softer wheel in the same product line(but the chemical makeup is still different to allow for the duro the be different).
Weight can have an affect also on soft wheels, bogging you down, making your skates sluggish. So duro is important.
Staying with a specific product line, and going through the different duros can show you several things, but without a traction meter to test it you still will not know what wheel is going to be right for your skate. Did the traction actually improve or fail at a different pressures ranges?
What floor coatings work best with specific wheels?

On floors that have good coatings and are well kept, a lot of concerns about duro can be ignored. Basically, get whatever wheel works for your weight and is not sluggish. Nicer floors are out there and some of you are lucky enough to skate them all the time. No need to worry about sliding, just have a good time and run all kinds of different wheels.
On floors that are not kept as well, a little dusty, older coatings or coated every few years. Good to skate on with good wheels but you might run into trouble with traction on harder wheels(duro). I have seen this before, duro does have some affect in adding value to add to your traction. I have also seen a change in the way a floor is cleaned make a huge difference in traction.
On non-coated floors, wood or concrete. Traction can be hard to come by. This is where I have ran much softer duros to get the traction required to get it done.
Doc stated that he did not believe duro to be a major factor in traction. It depends IMO. I stated the other day that I did not feel that duro was a big deal. Well.... Duro has played a part on loose floors, less on better floors and on the best floors I have skated, even less.

So what I am stating is that the better the skating surface you have to skate on, duro matters less. Better, meaning, well coated and clean.

The best floors I skate on have no issue providing traction for the hardest duro wheels I have. But those wheels can be made to break loose.
The two best floors for traction I skate, perform almost exactly the same with the two hardest wheel sets I own.

Since the composition of the wheels all vary( to accommodate different duro it has to be changed) it is hard to even state that wheels in a common product line should be in that product line. So does the product line really mean anything, or is it a line for the same shape and color of hubs? At what percentage of change of chemical makeup does the urethane not be considered a relative in a product line?

There should be a better way to provide info on wheels but it really comes down to, borrow, beg for wheels to try or watch the skater that does what you are wanting to do and buy what they buy(if they like what they have) to have a good starting point. But beware of SEDS!!! I swear its a virus!!
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Old September 7th, 2017, 03:35 AM   #2
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Just thinking: What actually causes the friction? I mean on a micro level? It has to be all mechanical, but what is actually happening?

Even when my wheels get covered with dust they still stick.
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Old September 7th, 2017, 11:58 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amohrfeld View Post
Just thinking: What actually causes the friction? I mean on a micro level? It has to be all mechanical, but what is actually happening?

Even when my wheels get covered with dust they still stick.
My wheels do too, up to a point.
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Old September 9th, 2017, 02:00 PM   #4
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Default ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by amohrfeld View Post
Just thinking: What actually causes the friction? I mean on a micro level? It has to be all mechanical, but what is actually happening?


Even when my wheels get covered with dust they still stick.
Do you also think that because the wheels are wide the outside of the wheel at the lip is tryin to travel further than the centre and the inside of the wheel is trying to travel a shorter distance than the centre of the wheel?
I sometimes think that thoery heats the wheels up through friction ,so if i just rolled for 10 mins in a straight line the wheels would be cooler than if i turned the corners.


Could it be deep grooves enabling the wheels to punch through the dirty surface?
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Old September 9th, 2017, 11:53 PM   #5
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Do you also think that because the wheels are wide the outside of the wheel at the lip is tryin to travel further than the centre and the inside of the wheel is trying to travel a shorter distance than the centre of the wheel?
I see where you are going with this. But the slip you mention is very small compared to the outward slip or friction when turning.
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I sometimes think that thoery heats the wheels up through friction ,so if i just rolled for 10 mins in a straight line the wheels would be cooler than if i turned the corners.
Racers warm up their wheels to improve traction.

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Could it be deep grooves enabling the wheels to punch through the dirty surface?
Grooves have an impact. You could be correct. But I'm thinking something else is going on. Sometimes the dust fills up and goes over the grooves.
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Old September 10th, 2017, 01:07 AM   #6
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I can concur that floor conditions make a big impact on wheel performance, as you get to the edge of their envelope. Our floor is coated, but getting quite old, many years. I can tell the difference between the afternoon skate when they don't dustmop very well (slide a lot on 96A), and the evening skate where they do dustmope (slide less on same wheels). Also, humidity seems to make a difference.

One surprise to me is that I think the grooves seem to really help grip. I thought this was some new urban legend. We rolled on solid wheels when I was young in the 70s, and then some wheels started having grooves. But when they wore out, we just kept skating. Kids then didn't have the money to keep trying new wheels every few months. But as adults, we do! As my orange cannibals have worn down, they have started sliding....a LOT.
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Old September 10th, 2017, 01:13 PM   #7
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I can concur that floor conditions make a big impact on wheel performance, as you get to the edge of their envelope. Our floor is coated, but getting quite old, many years. I can tell the difference between the afternoon skate when they don't dustmop very well (slide a lot on 96A), and the evening skate where they do dustmope (slide less on same wheels). Also, humidity seems to make a difference.

One surprise to me is that I think the grooves seem to really help grip. I thought this was some new urban legend. We rolled on solid wheels when I was young in the 70s, and then some wheels started having grooves. But when they wore out, we just kept skating. Kids then didn't have the money to keep trying new wheels every few months. But as adults, we do! As my orange cannibals have worn down, they have started sliding....a LOT.
I have seen this a lot, grooves go away and traction becomes unpredictable. The grooves actually increase foot print slightly, the more the grooves wear down, the less footprint you have. This is typical of conditions I skated a few years ago. Traction fluctuated during the seasons and sessions. Anabolix the tire was the best wheel on this floor. Now the floor has been recoated several times since then and is getting the works done to it this coming week. They are sanding to bare wood and painting and coating. Going to be awesome next weekend!
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Old September 10th, 2017, 09:54 PM   #8
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What rubbish.
Grooves lesson the footprint....slightly.
Its the slight cleaning action of the groove, dust seems to not stick .where as a slick the gunk tends to build up.
On a well maintained floor a slick is just as good if not better.
Why dont you try it on the new floor.
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Old September 10th, 2017, 11:06 PM   #9
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What rubbish.
Grooves lesson the footprint....slightly.
Its the slight cleaning action of the groove, dust seems to not stick .where as a slick the gunk tends to build up.
On a well maintained floor a slick is just as good if not better.
Why dont you try it on the new floor.
A grooved wheel is usually slower than a worn down wheel. The footprint is spread out because the points of the grooves are crushed and spread. I spend a lot of time keeping crud out of the grooves. They get caked tjen slip. Usually grooved wheels feel a little bit mushy compared to worn down wheels.
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Old September 11th, 2017, 01:19 AM   #10
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Rubbish.....
So your saying a grooved wheel has a bigger contact patch than a non grooved wheel due to compression.
Lol.....what are you smokin
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